I didn't know we even had ag agents here in California. All I ever see are the master gardeners. Now some of them do really know their stuff inside and out, but I don't think it is the same thing. I thought it was all part of California being the only state I ever heard of that did not offer low cost soil testing through the extension. Maybe you have to be a professional farmer before you are worthy of an ag agent's attention. I've been educating myself differently. I read books, garden forums, talk to experienced gardeners (and farmers, too), try things out, join interest groups, and even take a formal class now and then. I don't know nearly as much as I'd like, or nearly as much as would be useful, and boy do I keep making mistakes, but every year I know a little bit more than I did the year before. It would be nice to have one expert to go to for all my garden answers, but I suspect that no such creature exists. Fortunately I have come to know a lot of people who know a lot about their own area of interest and are willing to share that knowledge. Rosefolly

"Chances are ..." That's just it. If people were half the experts they thought they were they would be able to make an educated guess by going down Brandon's list. I'm fairly certain my old trees are on M111/M9 or B9 and M111 and I'm not an expert. I know my Newtown Pippin is on B118 and that information does me absolutely no good except I can pretend I'm an expert on the internet and tell what rootstock my tree is on. I know any semi-dwarf where I planted that tree will either need a lot of pruning or I'll have to attempt to stunt it. I don't know what my new Stark trees are on but I'm sure in a few years I'll be able to guess according to how they react, I'm already fairly certain the dwarfs are not on G11. Since I'm not the one who has to guarantee the trees or stake my reputation on them it really doesn't matter. I'm also betting I find out why it's difficult to find Newtown Pippin on dwarfing rootstock. I didn't have the expertise to pair up the rootstock and variety when I grafted (I didn't even know what I was going to graft onto them when I ordered the rootstock). DF139 is not the rootstock, that is Miller's stock number. Miller does not give rootstock information. Grandpas, Adams County and Cummins are a few that give rootstock information. Cummins seems to be the one that has the best selection of varieties on different rootstocks whereas Grandpas pretty much tells you what you get and Adams may or may not have a selection. Go to those nurseries instead of Miller if you want rootstock information.

I have been making hard cider for a couple of years now. First year I started fermentation in the carboy - and was getting the explosions. This year, I started fermentation in a large mouth 5 gallon tub. It came with a lid and a hole in which you put the bung and air lock. Use the champagne yeast, not brewer's yeast or baker's yeast as this will increase the alcohol content. Cider only takes about 2 weeks to get done - some people keep wine for 30 or 60 days. In the first few days, you'll see "head" and bubbles, you will also see the yeast in suspension. After a week, the bubbles will disappear but the yeast is still there. I tried drinking it - and it gave me a pretty bad hang over - the reason is that the organic products in suspension give off trace quantities of methanol. After a week more, the yeast will die and fall to bottom and the cider will clarify. You won't see the yeast in suspension. Now it's done and ready for bottling. I tried drinking it again - and no hangover. The taste is not quite cider - more like white wine. --- Regarding your question - you can add the sugar and the yeast. If the vinegar is not "strong" enough as a pickling agent - then the yeast will continue to ferment. If it is strong enough - then the yeast will not - which means it is a strong enough pickling agent. However, be sure to add champagne yeast - as that can tolerate the highest alcohol content and acidity - I believe around 18%. Also, you can just taste the vinegar and compare it to another product with a published acetic acid content of 5%. Is it more or less sour - if it is more sour - it should have higher vinegar concentration. It sounds to me like you vinegar is still oxidizing. You have to stir the vinegar and keep it open to air to allow oxygen to interact with the alcohol. If it is unstirred, in a large barrel it can take six months, with an automatic stirrer it could take a two or three weeks. The more surface area that is exposed to air and the frequent agitation will reduce the time to complete the process.

Are some falling or just so many that you are curious? Old trees are often called 'wild'. Seed grown years ago for ciders, juice, and baking. Even used as water when in a drought or wells dried up...or a water source became contaminated. I have some oldies and have small tart fruit. Small, having never been pruned for years. (If ever). Overgrown. They will sweeten a bit come fall but usually still on the tart side and not great as a fresh eater. Depending how ambitious you are, many things can be made from them. Cider, vinegars, baked, prepped and frozen or canned, etc. My farm was established around 1813-15 by town records, so fruit trees were most likely planted following the clearing of the fields... Might be good to try and determine the age of your trees. A pic of the whole tree and a close-up of a fruit cluster and your location. Some, if not too old, can be pruned and the fruit culled over a few years to give new life and tasty large fruit. (I've put in grafted trees over the past 20 yrs for fresh fruit.) Googling different key words like 'wild apple tree recipes' might help. As mentioned, the fruit and orchard forum on here can help determine the age of your trees. Some might say 'good for firewood', 'good for nuttin'.... i tend to ignore those comments.