wow.. well, no one else wants to say it? I will.

I HAVE seen mean and obnoxious comments on here. I am not talking about constructive criticism-- or even painfully honest criticism. I am talking about harsh comments that I can't imagine come from any other place than to belittle someone. I am not going to bother to look for one-- but I am shocked that so many deny their existence and further shocked that so many think it's ok to jump on the OP. If you think she's misread constructive criticism, say so politely or try to explain or don't post. Being snarky just supports her observations.

I find this forum immensely helpful and informative. There are a few philosophies I like:

Take what you need and leave the rest. I try to ignore snarky comments.

Why would you be hurt by people you don't know, likely will never meet and aren't in your real life? Some of the best advice I've received has been delivered in a harsh, blunt manner but by people I love and respect. So consider the context.

Perhaps the people who received the harsh comments didn't react to it like the OP did. What may hurt or offend you, may have absolutely no effect on another person.

Sorry if I brought this incident to the forefront, but being a sensitive person, I couldn't sleep the night I read that post and it's bothered me ever since. I have never hurt someones feelings intentionally, IRL, OR on a forum. To 'be told' my words were 'intentionally insulting' was quite a blow to me, and God knows that wasn't my intent, non do I read them as even being harsh.

I don't know if you're like me, but I sometimes get a feeling in the pit of my stomach when I read a post where the words could have been said a little more gentle. It's not often, but it does happen,and I always feel bad for the person getting treated badly.

I have also been one who has come to the defense of someone if i've read words that to my thinking are too harsh, and there is a difference between blunt(which I am!)and harsh. On another forum, the person I 'called out' completely changed the way she posted. Each time she posted it came across as rude and hurtful, and I would get that 'pit'~doesn't your gut tell you when something is wrong? I just had to bring it to her attention, and she did become more mindful of her words, though never said a word to me about my post.

When coming to a forum, you're opening up and making yourself vulnerable, but that isn't an 'invitation' to be taken advantage of with insults and hurtful words. As browmysmom has said, the 'lack of civility in the world today is a deep sorrow to me', and I couldn't agree more! This forum is one of most polite i've ever been on, with the majority of members being sensitive in their wording. It's a place you can look forward coming to because you know you can get good advice from people with the same interests as yours~it's a win/win situation.

Is it bad etiquette to "lurk"? I don't post much 'cause I feel way under-qualified to make suggestions. However I love reading solutions & ideas posted by the "experts." I think this forum is quite gentle and civil-occasionally someone is snarky but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.
bassetlvr

Is it bad etiquette to "lurk"?

Absolutely not! I've been an active participant here for many years (I believe I first joined in 2004, under a different name), but I still lurk more than I post.

My beef is the OP coming out of lurkdom for the very first time to say that people here are "mean", make "uncalled for" comments, and to instruct us when and how to post. To me, that was pretty much the height of rude forum behavior. If some consider me snarky for saying so, I'll wear that badge. I don't mind. ;-)

This post was edited by SunnyCottage on Fri, Feb 15, 13 at 15:49

Odd thread, but I don't see why a lurker has reduced privileges and can't be moved to post.

If gran8 is still around and brave enough to post, I think it would be helpful to know what she saw that pushed her over the edge to post this. ie, If they are really "internet mean" remarks or are constructive comments on design that some people view to be out of line, or so direct and to the point as to come across as being nasty or ill-mannered.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Fri, Feb 15, 13 at 15:54

Now that I think about it someone told me they "hated people like me" in the very first thread I posted. I got over it.

Posting on internet forums is a full body contact sport.
GW is more like touch football :-)

No, Gran8, you are getting it wrong! The worst thing is not to say something mean, but to say nothing at all.

Really-- I would rather have someone say something mean about my room than say nothing. If they say something mean, then I have a little bit of hope that it can be improved. When my threads are dead, I figure people have given up on me.

As you notice, many say they DO say nothing when they really don't like a space. So, no response often means the same thing. I try to help people who are not getting many answers so they don't feel this way, but sadly, I am not of much help 99% of the time!

I know that I sometimes post quickly (it's that or post at 1:23 a.m. like I am doing now . . .yawn) and then later think, wow-- I could have at least mentioned everything I LIKED before offering any changes.

kswl, good analogy!

If GW doesn't delete posters for non-use of the boards, then I have to wonder if Gran8 isn't a lurker, but a regular poster, and "Gran8" is another alias.

kswl - good one.

You want full body contact sport go over to hot topics. gran8 - the people over there will have you running for the hills.

"Odd thread, but I don't see why a lurker has reduced privileges and can't be moved to post."

Precisely. If that's what gran8 thinks and needs to say, then so be it. gran8 does not need to earn her place here by submitting some unspecified minimum number of posts before being allowed to express an opinion. Also, if that's her one and only post, that's perfectly ok. Where is it written that someone must post more than once?

As for me, one of the purposes of these forums is to seek and give advice. If someone doesn't like or agree with my advice, fine. I hope I don't come off as rude, but as far as "mean" is concerned, I'm long past the age of little girls' tea parties or sleepovers and "mean" versus "nice."

Um, what funkart said....although it's true that for the most part, people here are pretty awesome...

I know I have opened more than one account on this forum. I'm sure I have at least one, that is many years old and has never been used. Just saying...

As for the subject of this thread: No matter how nicely you speak to others, sooner or later you WILL offend someone anyway. All we can do is act with what each of us consider reasonable care for others.

Every single person has a different idea of what constitutes reasonable care. We are each entitled to set our own standards of behavior.

I take incredible care when speaking to a child because an undeveloped psyche warrants such care. I don't choose to take that level of care with adults.

Some people choose to treat every person as if they are extremely fragile. That's fine for them, but they have no business telling me to live by THEIR standards.

I think everyone would agree that telling other people how to act, is RUDE. Who died and made the critic the authority on proper social behavior?

"I think everyone would agree that telling other people how to act, is RUDE. Who died and made the critic the authority on proper social behavior?"

Well then, in circle speak, Cindy, I think you were just rude, lol.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Thu, Feb 21, 13 at 23:02

What is "circle speak"?

Of course I was just rude. This person had the audacity to issue an edict to everyone here. She wrote, "If you don't like their choice, keep it to yourself."

Excuuuse me Gran8, unless you are the moderator do not presume to give me an order. You could have shared your thoughts in a tactful, polite way, but you chose not to. It's almost comical that you so rudely demanded better behavior of everyone else.

You shouldn't talk the talk unless you are going to walk the walk.

Sure Gran8 has every right to post what she feels she needs to say and everyone else is entitled to their own opinion as well. Actually what I find odd is that if Gran8 has been a long time lurker as he or she says, then he/she would be or should be very familiar with the volume of different personalities here and the way the majority of us tend to convey our thoughts. I've been a member for a long time and I know I am.

More than anything, I would suspect that Gran8 is just a regular posting under a different name after taking something said personal. If that's the case, lurker or regular participator, Gran8 should know that most forum environments are no place to take things personal. It's jut MY 2 cents, but anyone taking what she said personal and getting pissy about it is basically in the same boat he/she is in.

I was just teasing, Cindyloo. Circle speak, someone tries to make a point and then the other person turns around to say they are guilty of the same thing by bringing up a point. Gets no where. Is it called a circular argument? Makes discussion impossible.

So. Let's all just be rude and crude to each other, lol. Why not. Isn't that what the internet is for?

"More than anything, I would suspect that Gran8 is just a regular posting under a different name after taking something said personal."

bingo. ding ding ding ding ding

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sat, Feb 23, 13 at 13:50

I am surprised by how many people talk about multiple user names. Really?! Who has time for that? And to what end? Geez, sounds like it's time to volunteer somewhere.. or to get a hobby!!

Funky, I think it's becoming common to have aliases. I have a different screen name but I've never posted under it. I got the 2nd one because I got confused when I first registered with GW, and ended up with two! lol. I have the other name written down somewhere, but I have no clue what it is.

I just wonder if Gran realized that most would figure out she's a regular because of never posting using the other name before. Maybe she was afraid of the backlash of using her "real" GW name?

Also, I wasn't around when "Spike" was here, but I've read where some got a second GW name just in case. lol

Alternate user names are called sock puppets and they've been around as long as we've had the internet. Some people do not want to take responsibility for everything they say. If they feel they just have to make a negative comment, they do so under one of their alternate user names. Obviously, doing this is lying. I've never done that in my life and when I see someone do it, in my mind they are a liar and will never have any credibility with me again. It's actually easier than people think to identify the fact that one person is using more than one name. Some people will "out" an offender, others will not.

Snookums, thanks for the explanation. Had anyone else called Gran8 on her rudeness I wouldn't have bothered. But I think someone needed to do it.

The golden rule in my book has two parts. The second part is, "Do unto others as they have done unto you." If I can find any reason to believe the person was speaking in good faith, I happily turn the other cheek.

But between suspicions about this person's identity and the fact that she was rude while lecturing the masses on manners, I don't see any good faith. ::shrugs::

Everyone would do well to remember that just because someone is designly eloquent, even able to give excellent advice, doesn't mean their tastes align with yours.
And so, I take every post here with a grain of salt or two, and am grateful anyone replied with Anything.

Their are many posters here who speak with bearing and authority. The language they use is often very subtly condescending and technically correct. For years, I cowered under their rule, yet, I didn't like their own rooms when they did post them ( and They never ask for advice. Or rarely, anyway as they are the expert)
But in this self discovery process, I learned to take confidence in my own abilities and more so, my own taste.
In no way are these people superfluous; rather, they are desperately needed by those who don't know silver sage from baby turtle. Or own a puffy couch....

Bumblebeez, I think if we didn't have anything good to say so we said nothing at all, we'd lose 3/4 of the value of this forum.

I think most people know what they think is pretty. What is difficult for most to see in their own work, it what is NOT working, and to know why it is not working.

Two names....aliases...? Very strange.

This has been an interesting thread. The OP first registered in 2006, so I think s/he was honest about lurking. I don't think you can change your user name without re-registering, which gives you a new registration date, so I don't think it's a regular poster with an ax to grind.

I love what you said Bumblebeez. So true.

Now Cyn, don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not saying you have an alias, but you know what I'm referring to.

Cindy, I don't see them as being liars, but what creeps me out is when a "newbie" jumps right in as if they've been here forever and knows all about us, when it's obvious they're using an alias. There have been many times in the past year I wanted to say, "Who ARE you?"

It's okay to change screen names, but just let us know first.

I think to call someone a liar just because they post under a different name is pretty harsh, especially for a forum environment. We all handle negative comments or responses differently and for whatever reason if this person did choose to use an alias that's their choice, but there is really no need to personally attack them with names. Obviously the poster was upset about something and I'm more curious as to what triggered the comment as opposed to who wrote it.

Yup, I know what a sock puppet is.. my point is, if you have to resort to sock puppet games on a home decorators forum, then you have bigger issues than what color to paint your kitchen!

And, yes-- that was snarky. It was intended to be. I don't hide behind a painted on smile or pretend it is anything but what it is. That's how I roll. :)

Should you let them bother you? Well, of course not. Do you sit and fret over a snarky store clerk or rude driver? I'd hope not.

Cindyloo, I believe the golden rule is ...as you would have others do unto you, not as they have done to you.

Become the change you'd most like to see in others....

Actually Oakley, I don't know. It would never occur to me that people would use more than one name here. I know some people like AuntJen have changed their names, but it doesn't seem that was the sort of thing people here were talking about. Please don't tell me what I do and don't know.

This is a kind of sad thread. So far, I commend funky for acknowledging what many here seem to be unwilling to do, and AnnieDeihjnaugh for reminding us that we are each very responsible for our own message and for its ripple effect. As Annie just noted, Ghandi had it right: be the change agent for the common good.

You are right, Annie and Abundant.

I could have made my point without being snarky.

Cyn, I am with you. It would never cross my mind to think there are posters using multiple names.. but I don't think I'd notice or much care-- especially if one or both of them would give me guidance on my paint selection thread! ;)

I find this thread very sad as well. The OP's thread came on the heels of a question on the decorating side in which the poster asked about a specific item, but others addressed aspects of her room she did not ask about. The poster did not seem upset about the comments, but I remember thinking how gracious she was being.

When a person such as gran8 lurk for so many years, it's usually because of fear of having their taste judged negatively. When she started this thread, I remember thinking she must have projected her own feelings onto the responses, and felt a need to defend what she thought was unfair criticism.

I never thought she was trying to run the forum or was hiding behind a pseudonym.

Dee

Good insight dee! It's good to look at all possibilities.

My intial impression changed later based on some other things.

Curious, deeinohio, what thread was it that you think might have triggered this one? I would like to read it.

Annie, please read what I said about the golden rule more carefully. Also, I AM the change I'd like to see. I wish more people would speak up and let others know when they are out of line.

For example, if every person that is offended by profanity would say something when they heard it out in public, we would stop hearing it in public. By not addressing it, we all acquiesce in it...and we can see how that is working for our society can't we?

I don't believe there is anything noble about ignoring unacceptable behavior. I don't find anything sad about this thread at all. Where human beings gather there are going to be conflicts...why is that sad? It happens, you deal with it, you go on. It's LIFE and it shouldn't be distressing to anyone, lol.

We have no evidence that gran8 is a sock puppet and that discussion is cluttering up this thread. I'll open a separate thread in case anyone is interested.

Coming to this late and it is really not a discussion I want to get in the middle of - but - I will say one thing. I am another who never thought of posters using more than one name. It is very easy for the board operators to see multiple ISPs, etc. in fact, I thought something was once mentione about that here.

tina

PS - Cindy - I came to this thread because of the sock monkey thread on which I did not comment. I do see that here you plainly explained why you were starting a new thread.

What's sad about this thread is that the OP is still lurking and we're all talking like she/he isn't here. I have a feeling if the OP is a regular poster, they probably would have done a smack down straight up and told us what they felt and why. The OP still won't come out and tell us what set her/him off. It was probably a really bad hormonal malfunction day and he/she is wishing it never happened and is getting a kick out of us still going on about it.

Well, speaking for myself, I don't know or care about the OP. I am commenting on the behavior, not the person.

okay, I think I know what thread deeinohio thinks started this. Someone asked about a painting. I remember thinking at the time, that some remarks on her precious clock seemed a bit harsh or uncalled for and wondered how she was taking it. Looking over the thread, the whole room was redone and all she asked about was her painting!

Gran8 showed up when that thread closed, so maybe that was the the one that moved her to speak her mind.

I don't take her words to be either mean or an order.

We can't keep speculating about what set her off (and yes, I do believe OP is a woman). If she won't tell us, why speculate. If I'm going to get beat about the head, I want to know why straight from the mouth of the accuser. (although, I don't think I said anything THIS TIME to cause her upset -- but who knows -- she won't tell us.)

@Annie...love your post!

I've been reading all the posts and really do not want to get caught up in it too much. I am just surprised that someone would choose such a negative way to come out of lurkdom . . . and then disappear back into the woodwork , not taking the opportunity to explain or defend her negative statement.
I don't have a clue who this person really is, and personally don't care, but I do agree with those here who feel it is a current GW member who has taken on a second membership and name. Regardless, it always amazes me how these negative posts take on a life of their own. Perhaps we should just ignore both the post and the poster and focus on what the vast majority of us do best: share fellowship with a lot of great, great people who enjoy decorating and talking about it.

Gran was clearly hurt by someone's comments. Beyond that, there's A LOT of assumptions being made about her here, probably compounding that hurt. So where's all the self-professed - ad nauseam - wonderful, caring, Christian, loving, blah, blah, blah fellowship that should be manifesting itself in empathy toward her? Instead, many people have chosen to express how THEY feel or have felt. ME, ME, ME. For all the "I'm so wonderful because" . . . comments on these forums, please explain to me how any of the following comments are "constructive" here:
trotting out social bromides
Who died and made the critic the authority on proper social behavior; audacity to issue an edict; rudely demanded better behavior; lecturing the masses; I don't know or care about the OP
a really bad hormonal malfunction day
jump out at us again
instruct this group on how to behave, what they should post, and how to post it.
chastise other members
beat about the head
I don't care

I continually find it amazing that some of you who spend inordinate amounts of time posting on these forums DO think that you have an elevated status. This is a public forum. You don't own it by virtue of squatting here.

There's a BIG difference between constructive criticism and cruel criticism, and IMO, there are plenty of times that people on this forum take advantage of their anonymity to be unnecessarily harsh or just plain mean. In those instances, there is no intention to help the OP at all but, rather, an opportunity for someone with low self esteem to puff up by bragging, or putting down someone else in order to build themself up.

I would like to know what Gran is referring to also, but I can't blame her for not returning.

I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt, Gran. I hope that you will stick around and continue to lurk, or even post again, NO MATTER AT WHAT INTERVAL. As you wade through this thread's comments, you will see the intelligence shine through in the comments that are made with care and thoughtfulness, in an effort to be kind and helpful. They're worth digging around for. As you read more threads on these forums, you'll recognize these people by their manner, and their advice/comments will come to be of value to you. As for the others, let their obnoxiousness be like water on a duck. Unfortunately, you do have to have a thick skin at times, but consider the sources. There is a lot of great info here and there are people who do truly want to help, not hurt.

I personally feel that it IS important to be considerate. Am I perfect in this regard? Nope. But I try to be, and I see less and less consideration and empathy around me every day. It IS sad. If I were the person who hurt Gran's feelings, I would feel lousy and want to apologize.

I have never quite understood why people ask for advice and/or opinions and then take offense when it's not to their liking. As the old saying goes, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. Members of this community come from all regions of the country and the world for that matter. It is natural that what is acceptable in one region may be considered rude or brash in another. That also depends on the age, education and experiences of the writer. My personal philosophy is weigh your words carefully, speak the truth as you see it and move on. Hopefully, the other party will appreciate your opinion or simply ignore it. If you are thin skinned, you don't need to be participating on a discussion forum until you learn to take most of it with a grain of salt. In the grand scheme of things, it's just one person's opinion based on their knowledge or experience. That frumpy old sofa someone ask an opinion on may have been handed down by a beloved relative. Criticizing it may hurt the owner's feelings, but ignoring it may also be dishonest. Some people choose courtesy and others choose honesty. Neither are wrong in my opinion.

Betsy some of the offensive statement in your list were written by me.

First, "So where's all the self-professed - ad nauseam - wonderful, caring, Christian, loving, blah, blah, blah fellowship that should be manifesting itself in empathy toward her?", you've never heard ME pontificate on those concerns.

Second, as already stated, my posts to Gran were in response to what I felt was her very rude edit telling us to either say something nice or say nothing at all. I'm a member of the audience she was addressing. I didn't appreciate her tone and I responded in kind.

Picture a person addressing a crowd and making the statements that were in Gran's post. Do you seriously believe that last line would not have met with loud disapproval?

No one suggested that the internet be reserved for only those who are thick skinned, but it is useful to remember that it helps if you are. Some people post for validation, some seek honest opinions. Those who need validation are more likely to be the ones who take offense at every comment. Then, of course, there are the control freaks - another whole issue. Ouch!

I just opened this post - I think because there were so many responses that it intrigued me.

I read the OP's post 3 times and Gran doesn't say that she's been hurt by comments. Maybe she does post under another name, maybe she doesn't - but it hardly makes a difference. She merely states that some of the replies given when someone asks for decorating advice are mean and uncalled for. And it has happened.

Sometimes I lurk on the Hot Topics forum to see what the latest controversy happens to be - but there's no way I'd ever attempt to post there. But there have been times when I've been tempted to chime in and say that "everyone has a right to their own opinion and just because is doesn't agree with yours doesn't mean that they're wrong and you're right."

Perhaps that's what Gran did too.

This post was edited by maire_cate on Fri, Mar 8, 13 at 16:35

Betsy, I haven't been back to this topic for a while now, it's just too negative and cruel. But I have to say this to you, "BRAVA!!!" You nailed it.

Some people get off on cruelty to other's. I also think it's a low self-esteem thing. Like the school yard bully.