Yep. Guilty of not being able to forgive everyone. My most recent thread (Fundraiser) is telling of my inability to forgive. (The Mom, not my niece.) She took us for just under $20K and drove a wedge between close relatives (with her blatant lies) that was never resolved before death. Can you say 'gold digger' with major entitlement issues? That is the only way I see her.

I think she is the only person in my life I am guilty of holding on to ill will with and sometimes I hate myself for it. A simple apology may take care of it on the forgiveness side but I will never forget. She still goes through too many "friends" for me to think she has changed one bit. The two sets of God Parents of her children were out of her life by the time the kids were a year old.

Here's my twist on it. The act of forgiving is about me. It's what I must do in order to move on in life. I own the process of making the decision to forgive. Once I've made that decision, I can move on to become free again, free of anger and resentments primarily.

Forgiveness is NOT about another person. If my decision to forgive is subject to things that another person controls (their behavior, an apology, something else), then I am never going to get over my own anger and resentments because I can't make them effect changes.

Once I learned that forgiveness really only has to be about me, my life has been so much more freeing. I chuckle when I hear "I can't forgive"...I used to be that way. I've come to believe, though, that what the speaker really is saying is "I WON'T forgive". They are choosing to hang on to anger because it them allows them to take the next step..."oh, poor me".

Here's a booklet that's helped me alot. And from it comes this: Forgiveness is a gift of freedom that you give to yourself, a gift of releasing resentment, anger, jealousy, and bitterness from your life.

Here is a link that might be useful: Earnie Larsen

One person who is a beautiful example of practicing forgiveness is Joyce Meyer. She was sexually, mentally and physically abused by her father until she left home.
You might not believe the same things she believes but her story of forgiveness is powerful.
It's on her website.

This is one that I probably beat myself up on most. I want to be able to forgive easily and oddly enough those that do not directly affect my life I find to be the easiest to forgive and move on.

I struggle w/ it because of my Christian values and I fail at this one so badly. I often wonder what kind of Christian I am if I can't do this. I admire DH so much and strive to be more like him in this manner. He seems to be able to forgive and love so well. I try to learn from him - I admire him so much.

For the past few years my struggle has been forgiving my BIL (DH's brother) for an ongoing affair that wrecked his marriage. It caused him to give up 5 acres of land to his ex-wife (w/ whom I do not have a close relationship) that his parents gave to him to build a house. I would have given my eyeteeth to be able to live next door to DH's parents and build my dream house. The ex SIL has a shoddily built house and you can barely tell their yard from a wild life gane preserve (maybe that's the look they're going for) and THAT makes me angry too. Yep - find it hard to forgive her (and her soon to be new DH).

Clearly I have issues that I need to work on. I think I'd be a lot happier if I could just learn to forgive it all. And I want to very much.

Thanks for bringing this up. Maybe this should be my New Years Resolution.

In fact I think that I'll e-mail Dear Sis whole other ball of wax). Nothing to really forgive her about per se' but.......t's been almost a year since we've spoken.

Off too read the Earnie Larson link!

Thanks, patser, for the link. I've scrolled through and while I haven't had a chance to fully digest all that Mr. Larsen has written there, it definitely looks like a worthwhile read. I wholeheartedly agree with your take on forgiveness. It's absolutely something we do for ourselves, and not for others. I know that my inability - no, make that my unwillingess - to truly forgive someone affects nobody but me, but boy does it ever affect me. I have found myself dwelling on negative feelings towards someone, just mulling over and over the things about them that I don't like. If I'm honest, this is somehow an exercise in boosting my own ego in a very twisted way. "Thank goodness I'm not like THAT person. *I* would never behave like that. *I* am so much better than that." What does that say about me, though, when I engage in that kind of inner dialogue - even on a subconscious level - and it somehow bolsters my opinion of myself? I know it isn't healthy. It's far from healthy. And yet I know that most of us do this at some point in our lives. We have to learn to actively engage our minds and consciously replace those kinds of "negative feel-good" thoughts with affirming, enriching ones instead.

I think it's a mark of maturity to be able to do that. I'm definitely not "there" yet - not to the extent that I want to be.

Bumblebeez, I didn't know that about Joyce Meyer. My husband has been watching her programs on tv a lot lately. Perhaps I should join him. :-)

Very good thread, Auntjen. And I like what patser had to say. I do think if frees me when I forgive someone who has hurt me. When I am thinking about how much someone has hurt me & how mean they are, etc, I feel like I'm giving them my power.

When I started working where I'm at currently, I got off on the wrong foot with the one gal there. There was a time, when I was really angry with her. I was thinking about her all the time, losing sleep. At times, I REALLY tried to forgive this gal for being mean. For instance, one thing she liked to do was come into my office & toss things on my desk - scattering the papers I was working on, when I had a mailbox for her put my mail in. I'd ask God please help me forgive her, but nothing was happening. I told my daughter about it & she said "Mom, ask God to bless her". Well, I didn't want God to bless her, but I also didn't want keep on losing sleep over this gal. So, I said the words - finally & peace just came over me. It was an honest to God miracle! She still does things to annoy me, I mean she really works at it! Lol! When she starts getting to me again, I go to God again - telling Him all about it & asking Him to bless her all over again. I'm reminded of that country song 'I prayed for you'- have you heard it? I get a chuckle out of that song, but that's not how to do it.

Part 2 of what I learned is very similar to what ruthy mentioned. When I have a situation in which I could benefit from a little forgiveness - such as what you describe, auntjen, with the smart cracks you've tended to make, I was told to do the following:

Every day for 2 weeks, when the nasty thoughts hit my brain, I must rechannel my thoughts and instead say some sort of a prayer such as "may this person find happiness in their daily life". I was then told that at then end of 2 weeks, I would have forgiven the person.

That's what I was told. At first, I snickered. Then I pooh-pooh'd the idea. Then I tried it....and darn it, it works. However, it doesn't usually take the full 2 weeks before I'd quit thinking badly about the other person and I was moving on. I was free.

This doubter became a believer.

I forgave and then booted the person out of my life. Some people aren't worth the trouble.

My DH is a Buddhist and shared this parable with me a long time ago. He is a wonderful example of this parable. I try but have a ways to go as far as the practice of " putting her down". It is worth knowing how to do this in order to enhance your personal peace and mindfulness. c

Here is a link that might be useful: Buddhist Parable

TWO WOLVES

One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
He said, "My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all.

"One is Evil - It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

"The other is Good - It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: "Which wolf wins?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

-----

So true. Yes, as patser indicated it is a question of doing it for ourselves, but I truly believe it is larger than that inasmuch as our every act has an often unforeseen and unknowable ripple effect. Once we accept our total interconnectedness, then it is a bit easier to be peace, to be kind, to want the best for the other. Not always easy, but our task.

For Christians, ponder the meaning of "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others." That's heavy if you believe in the prayer as who would want to be measured by our miserly measures. Other belief systems seem to have very similar messages for us to heed.

I certainly don't dwell on that woman but it's important to know who to stay away from. Some people are evil.

I tend to be one who just lets it go if it can't be righted. I don't like holding on to anger (unless it's justified, and then it's used to fuel correcting a wrong). Kind of like with that Buddhist Parable...there is no good in holding on to something in the past; I try to move on.

For a long time I was angry at my ex, but I just let it go and realized I had the better end of the deal in the long run. The same with DH's ex...a truly evil woman. I chose to not let her eat at me, to let her have power over me. At the same time, I realized, I didn't need to CARE about her...if she up and died, I wouldn't mourn. Sounds callous, but she literally means nothing to me any more.

On a lesser route, I have learned to not let rude people get to me. I used to carry it around, and it'd make my day wretched, now I just try to remind myself that they might be having a bad day. And if that is their mein...well, it's good that I don't have to live with that person!

A co-worker who is a snot...I just remind myself that whatever amount of time I have to spend with them is temporary in the big scheme of things, and when I leave their presence, I LEAVE it behind.

Sounds so zen, right? I'm far, far from perfect, but I've learned that some things just can't be fixed or forgiven in my book, so just leave them behind and don't let them weigh me down or keep me from appreciating the things I love.

I agree with Patser. I used to be one who held on to resentments and grudges. It was only after I joined Al-Anon and worked the program that I was able to let these things go.

Not forgiving someone is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.

Today, I focus on all the good things in my life and not on the negatives. Gratitude is very powerful.

I try to live by Buddhist philosophy as well. I am not always successful in each and every instance (oh boy, you should hear me in the car in our DC area traffic), but I am becoming better at letting my anger go.

Texanjana, I like your statement about drinking poison!

"I have found myself dwelling on negative feelings towards someone, just mulling over and over the things about them that I don't like. If I'm honest, this is somehow an exercise in boosting my own ego in a very twisted way."

AJ, you're on the path to wisdom. For most of us, it is a tricky and circuitous route, but the first step is to make the choice to getting on a better path. It often seems much of our inner dialogue simply is ego gratification rather than seeking reconciliation and ways that lead to the best possible outcome for all concerned. Mr. Larsen (thanks, Patser) and others suggest that until we come to terms with ourselves we will not be able to truly be wholesome and loving. Too often it's easy to ruminate on others' damaged lives, focusing without empathy on their glaring inabilities and deficiencies. Eventually some begin to realize a couple of things: that the ugliness in others mirrors that within, and that what we focus on becomes our lives.

That's not to minimize the reality of encountering those who make unhealthy life choices and sow misery. We are all confronted in this society by far too many who act selfishly and behave in numerous ways that cause real damage to themselves and others. Some unfortunately just have never been exposed to the basic skills to do better; some know better and choose not to do better; some are mentally ill; some are simply at earlier stages on a good path. Still, I find it helps to remember these are damaged lives who warrant our concern and, as much as possible, our efforts for them to develop a clearer, healthier vision of possibilities for themselves. Of course, there are myriad ways we can try to effect change in our world and there are just so many hours in a day, but we can all try to respond in life enhancing ways.

Yes, Golddust is right there it is important to recognize and minimize toxicity. I try to stay out of harm's way but not so much out of condemnation or feeling morally superior, but in recognition of my limitations. At one time in my career, I worked in a blighted area with people who resolved conflicts with guns, sold drugs and behaved in other dysfunctional ways. Once after my life was threatened, I quickly moved on and did not look back as I knew I had encountered forces against which I was vulnerable. I know others with bigger hearts and less fear who have chosen to stay and try to make a difference, but I was not ready to do so. That's an extreme example, but we all find ourselves having to deal with less threatening but very real PITAs occasionally. Since I believe that energy constantly transmits and transforms, during the course of the day whenever I'm gravitating toward negativity, I consciously attempt to redirect my thoughts and tap into that which is positive and life affirming rather than magnify that which is less so. I try to do as Patser suggests: releasing the "other" to the universe and praying that they may enjoy true peace and happiness. While I hope the other benefits, I know I do.

I'm an unforgiving person. Although I know it's not logical, I feel that if I forgive someone it's like saying what they did was okay. I strongly believe in taking responsibility for one's actions and forgiveness is a freebie.

I would say it is one of my biggest emotional struggles.

Patser - you are a wise woman. I do try to do the same. I will say that it is not always easy, and it DOES depend on the person or relationship, etc. I mean it depends on how easy it is for me to forgive based on my relationship with that person and the person themself. I so agree that not forgiving hurts ME much more than it hurts them and it is toxic to hold on to those feelings. For me, forgetting is often much harder than the act of forgiveness.

Like TTodd, I try to follow a christian lifestyle and to me, forgiveness is a big part of that. I also agree with Kelly that a person is resonsible for his/her own actions. That doesn't mean however that we are always going to make the right choice - nor that we should withhold forgiveness.

tina

I was involved in a conflict with my cousin. Her mother, my aunt, was not directly involved with the original situation but felt she had to take her daughter's side even though she didn't have all of the facts. I begged her to stay out of it because I know my mother would have to join in and it was going to split up the family.

She didn't listen and the family was torn apart.

My aunt would call me every day and tell me what a terrible person I was. She made sure to tell anyone who would listen that I was the cause of the family schism. I cannot begin to tell you the awful things she did to me and the things she said to me. This went on for almost 8 months and I cried every day over what had happened to our once solid family relationships. I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

One day, I just decided that I wasn't going to play her game anymore because I saw she was enjoying it and thriving on the attention she was getting.

So.....I told her I understood she was angry and that I forgave her for the hurtful things she had said and done to me and my mother.

Best thing I ever could have done!!!!! She went positively nuts and wanted to know who had given me the permission to forgive her. I remained very calm as she continued to explode.

The result was that she stopped torturing me. I realized a fight can't continue as long as only one person is fighting. I no longer gave her the power to upset me or occupy any of my thoughts. I slept like a baby; my life returned to normal. And I had the happy satisfaction that she was miserable, unhappy and couldn't bother me anymore.

It was not my original intent, but revenge sure was sweet.

kellyeng, I don't think forgiveness equals condoning. Forgiveness seems more a willingness to be free of the past and moving beyond the injustice, anger & hurt. Ideally, we all get to the stage when we see others as just another facet of ourselves and want wholeness for every sentient being.

We all have to live with the consequences of our thoughts and actions. I don't think forgiveness requires even continuing a relationship as at times that is not in anyone's best interest. But to hold tightly on to grievances always damages your spirit and keeps you stuck in an unloving mode, so I think that's why we are challenged to let go and, as a consequence, be free to enjoy the present moment. It becomes your freebie! It definitely ain't easy, but it's a worthy goal. Namaste!

Monablair, read your (not so) funny story after I posted. Good for you for disengaging from another's nightmare. Now in an ideal world of "shoulds", we could wish your miserable aunt peace, but at least you've released yourself from her nonsense. Sometimes, it's all we can manage to do to defuse the situation and move on from toxic people.

You brought up another important aspect about dealing with difficult folks. When we allow someone to disrespect us or stay in bad situations or find ourselves remembering and savoring the unpleasant details, we relinquish control of our lives. I figure I don't want to empower unpleasant people to live in my head. Heck, a lot of the time they surely aren't squandering their time worrying about me or anyone else they've slammed but are on to their next victim.

We can't control every aspect of our lives or anyone else but ourselves, but we can decide how we want to live. Even when we don't make a conscious decision, by default our lives reflect our thoughts and actions. Like everyone, I have had to figure a way past some hurtful issues, but I was determined to live as peacefully as I could. For a brilliant insight into how capable most of us are to control our interior life and well-being, read Victor Frankel's "Man Search for Meaning". His first person account greatly expanded my vision when I read it nearly 40 years ago.

I haven't read the replies yet, but you all know the story I told about my SIL and our MIL's death and the things she did, right? Well, the repercussions from her actions (not the flowers, lol) left her without some "big" family heirlooms, all of her doing. She got ANGRY at my dh and myself, but she brought it all on. I was angry at her too.

Today we went to MIL's house to start clearing it out. I hadn't seen her since we had mild words last Saturday. So this morning I called her before we went over there, after she answered the phone I said, "I'm just calling to tell you I love you."

I have people say or do horrid things to me, and as long as they own up to it, I forgive in a heartbeat. I don't dwell on it either, which is the "forgetting" part. If I remember it, it doesn't bother me.

Life is too short to hold grudges, IMO.

I forgot to add this which I think is very important in forgiving. In order to truly forgive, I believe a person needs to be humbled to their KNEES. We were at one time and ever since I find it easy to forgive.

I realize that no matter what a PITA a person can be, they too have a story to tell, one that I and maybe no one else knows about.

Ever since I had that deeply humbling experience, every shoddy looking stranger gets a smile from me.

I'm a softie now. Yes, some people seem to be "evil", but like I said, they too have a story to tell. What made them evil? Do they have an untreated mental illness? Were they abused as a child?

Some people can be abused and carry on, other's can't. Everyone is made up differently.

But if no one has ever been humbled, and I'm not talking about little humbling experiences either, then I don't think they can easily forgive. Of course that doesn't apply to everyone, but I'd say most.

I also believe in Karma.

One of my mottos is "What would Jesus do?"

I also think that wanting revenge or feeling satisified at revenge can be just as detrimental as not forgiving.

tina

I haven't read the responses to this..

I believe it hurts us more not to forgive. In the past I had a situation that left me very angry and hurt. Once I made the decision to forgive them, and prayed about the situation, I didn't immediately feel any different. I had to stop talking about it and thinking about it. I believe this is very important. It's very easy to go over and over and over the details in your head. Eventually my feelings caught up. I believe it's a process that just takes time.

I don't feel you necessarily need to, or can, always have a relationship with the people involved.

Forgiveness is sometimes confused with excusing. Excusing someone from doing something is very casual, while forgiveness requires a real effort, and usually takes quite a long time.

Also forgiveness and reconciliation with the one that needs forgiven is not the same. If you reconcile with someone, it requires forgiveness, but, you can forgive someone WITHOUT reconciling with them.

To have something eat you up inside, is not mentally healthy. I totally understand how hard it is to forgive. I am not a "naturally" forgiving person and I have to work on it. But, I do catch myself now trying to be more forgiving of people than I used too.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. So many of you have eloquently expressed what's been sort of rolling around in my mind, but I've not quite been able to put into words. The older I get, the more I realize that the ability to truly forgive someone is crucial to my own well-being, and really has very little to do with them. I am also understanding that it's not necessarily a warm, fuzzy feeling I'll come to have about the person who wronged me; it's a conscious choice to redirect any negativity I may harbor towards them into positive thoughts - blessings - however you want to phrase it - and projecting that kind of energy instead. I too firmly believe that forgiveness does not have to go hand-in-hand with reconciliation. Situations are not always conducive to so much as further contact with someone that we need to forgive, so it really must be an act within ourselves, above all.

It's definitely a process, and not one that's easily mastered I'm afraid. Still, it's a concept that I find quite interesting, and one I hope to continually improve upon in my own life.

auntjen, it's apparent you're already on a good track. The process seems to be a lifelong task, but just realizing the need for and formulating the intent to be a blessing to all creation shows a good heart. Of course, intent is one thing and action another, but you seem to be a thoughtful, wise & kind person.

Before posting, I meant to correct Dr. Frankl's name as I misspelled it. Sorry.

Thank you so much for your kind words, Abundantblessings. Due to several recent events in my life, I have been a bit more introspective and compelled to at least try to be a better person. All I can say in that regard is thank goodness tomorrow is a brand new day. ;-)

Just don't be gullible.

tinam, Thank you for the compliment, but believe me, I wouldn't have achieved any wisdom on this subject if I hadn't had to. What I've learned has very much come from the school of hard knocks.

Auntjen, Another kind of blunt and to the point way that I look at this subject is: Life's too short to let someone else tie my knickers into a knot. Or to have space in my brain without paying rent.

You have really identified the crux of this because it's all a matter of our choice. Not always easy, but a choice just the same.

So this thread stuck in my head on Sunday when I went to a church lunch for my nephew. I think that I actually made some headway for myself and I think DH noticed.

I would not have done this had this thread not been stuck in my head and prompted me to take a step.

Thanks!

PS - LOVE the wolf analogy - I have to share that w/ mom.

For myself, the 'forgiveness part' is the easiest, since it usually ends with a hug, maybe a few tears, and a sincere apology, but the forgetting is like a monkey on my back. I find I can't sleep, can't eat, and feel a genuine uneasiness within myself~~I know i'm harder on myself than I need to be. I'll mull a conversation over a million times, relive a situation a million times, and wonder what could have gone differently to avoid hurt feelings to anyone, and the emotions that come with 'forgiving and forgetting'. I like to think I 'take things to heart', which makes it easier for me to walk in someone else's shoes. ;o)