Link doesn't work for me....

Sorry. Try this,please.

Here is a link that might be useful: Home Plans

It works.

Well - if you get used to looking at bigger plans I see all sorts of issues. But the two things that jump out at me are the line of sight into the master bedroom from the public spaces and the lack of a pantry.

Obviously compromises are made on a small house but a pantry for me is a really good use of 5 sq feet. Now - maybe you don't need that space but I'm just saying. Similarly, the laundry room is tight. And while I'm on the subject, can the master closet fit clothes on both sides and still walk thru? It doesn't look like it could so that would be a big waste of space (only using one side). Not sure how to change that.

Thank-you. Yep ... the compromises in a small house are making me a little crazy. :) While the footprint of the house really can't be changed where it affects the roof/cost, I've toyed with the idea of seeing if we can pull the gabled garage forward to get more space in the laundry room. And yes, the lack of a pantry has me pretty concerned, too. That entry closet could be on the master closet side, thus freeing some space, but I can't see where it would be accessible to the kitchen. I've begged for one more foot in the front of the house to make the master closet and kitchen deeper ... but the pitch of the roof is a potential cost issue .. not to mention added sq feet ... and my DH is saying "forget it." (Deep sigh ....) I'll welcome any ideas! Given the fact we can't change the exterior walls/roof pitch or add more than 10-20 sq ft living space at most, I wonder if there's any way to address those issues.

How much of a cost issue is adding the square footage? There could be a bigger cost, not necessarily monetary, from building something you'll be unhappy with long term or presents resale issues.

Kitchen seems undersized and as mentioned, lacks storage.

There's dead space between kitchen and dining...not sure how you could fix that. You do have quite a bit of common area that could be made a bit cozier.

Not a big fan of the front door opening straight into the living area.

No mud area off garage.

We have a tub as well in our Master Suite and given a choice today, I would nuke it and enlarge the shower plus add storage.

dyno, the cost issue is way important. Extra sq footage is just not possible. And I certainly appreciate what you're saying about the potential "bigger cost" later.

I agree the kitchen seems small - I may work with a kitchen designer later ?? to see how to maximize the space. (The one I just left was 9x10 though ... so at least this one is bigger than that!)

Could you explain a little more what you mean when you say make the common area "cozier"?

'Appreciate your comments! Thank you!

I agree with what was said above. As far as the master closet, maybe not the most efficient use of space. Could you shorten it by a couple of feet, use the extra space on the right side for the front coat closet, and incorporate the existing coat closet into the pantry?

Also, the kitchen is very tight and in such a small space I am not sure I would devote such a large amount to the peninsula/serving bar. It does not look wide enough to sit at and eliminates the cabinets you could certainly use (particularly if you have to eliminate some to allow access to a pantry).

I don't love the entry into your master bedroom and the lack of privacy, but the only way around that I can see is to create an alcove hallway which would cut into the master bedroom size.

I would suggest putting the water heater in the garage. That closet under the stairs where the water heater is located is prime real estate and would make your small laundry functional. The cabinets above the washer dryer would be sufficient to store laundry supplies, lightbulbs, etc. and the closet under the stairs would make a great broom closet for the vaccum, brooms, mops, cleaning supplies, extra paper towels, etc. I also keep all sorts of other things in my laundry room like a laundry basket of old towels and rags for cleaning, washing the car, etc., a box of art supplies for the kiddos, extra paper towels and toilet paper, etc. and that would give you a great place to put all that.

For a small house I think your architect has done a fine job of trying to fit in everything you want. BUT, it sounds as tho you think maybe you CAN afford to maybe add 10 - 20 sq ft more floor space and if so, that can make a world of difference. Here is what I would suggest...

1) Bump the outer wall of the masterbedroom back by 1 to 1.5 feet. (That will add 14 to 21 sq ft to your overall heated/cooled space but the added cost should be VERY minimal.

2) Then, move the wall dividing the masterbedroom from the masterbath area back about 1.5 to 2 feet. (6 inches more than the amount you moved the exterior wall backward). (no added cost here) This will result in the masterbedroom being slightly smaller than it was originally - but not by enough to be terribly noticeable. This will also result in a small area to the left of your fireplace where you can stick another very narrow bookcase. Or, you can turn the opening and have a built in bookcase hidden behind your masterbedroom door. (okay, a tiny bit of extra cost here for the added bookcase - LOL!)

3) Then, move the wall dividing the master bath from the closet area backward by 1.5 to 2 ft also - so that the masterbath stays the same size as it was originally. (no added cost) The result will be that the closet area in front of the bathroom will be made deep enough to hang clothing along both walls. The long walkway in the original closet REALLY wastes a lot of space that you can't afford to waste!

4) Rearrange the masterbath completely. First, incorporate that funny little side closet into the masterbath floor space. Put the sinks up against the fireplace wall and next to the bedroom. Put the shower on the outside wall next to the bedroom and across from the sinks. Put the tub on the outside wall next to the closet. Finally, create a smaller toilet room on the inside wall next to the closet. If you use a glass walled shower, light from the window over the tub can reach the sink area more easily. Glass walled shower will cost a little more than an enclosed shower with tile walls but will look much more elegant. This rearrangement will give you more room in front of your sinks... and a place to stand while you dry off and get dressed.

5) Now to the closet area. You still have a narrow extension that sticks out in front of the living area. Cut all but two feet off that extension and make the cut-off part into a walk-in entry hall closet. It'll be about 5x5. Too big really for a reach in closet and too small for a normal walk-in closet but useable as a walk-in coat storage area and a place to tuck away things like the vaccuum cleaner. I wouldn't normally put such a large closet in the entry hall but you need storage space. The remaining mastercloset area will have as much linear clothes hanging space as your original design - but in a much more compact footprint.

6) Now, get rid of that entry closet you had to the left of the front door and expand your kitchen into that space. Also, push the pennisula bar about 1.5 feet or so further toward the back of the house. This will take up some of that dead space between kitchen and dining. You'll also be able to make the bar longer. Essentially, when you're done, your stove should wind up directly across from the fridge and your sink and the window ought to be just about centered in the kitchen. I would then have corner cabinets made with an angled edge on each (and cabinet door on the angled side) so you can actually reach in and USE the corner space! Upper cabs in the corners should also be angled and, you can bring the corner uppers down clear to the cabinet top with "appliance garages" so that you maximize storage space. Not the same as having a pantry, but better than nothing.

7) Move the water heater out from under the stairs and put it out in the garage. Or, find out if your water heater wouldn't possibly fit UNDER the staircase landing itself. Or, consider moving the water heater upstairs into the HVAC closet. BTW - if you don't put the water heater under the landing, have storage built in under there. There is actually quite a bit of room under the landing and, in a small house, it is a shame to waste that space!

8) Now, open up the area under the upper flight of stairs completely and make that part of the laundry room. Given the number of risers you have leading UP to the landing, you should have about 4.5 feet of headroom at the lowest point closet to the landing and your washer/dryer should fit nicely up against the wall there. You'll have plenty of headroom in front of the washer/dryer to stand. Incorporating the space under the upper flight of stairs into your laundry room will give it about 50 percent more floor space. It is still small but there will be room enough for a sink and small counter to fold clothes on anyway.

9) Finally, I'm assuming that the door you show at the bottom of the stairs is there because you want to be able to close off the bonus room and not heat/cool it. I would consider moving that door up to the top of the stairway and then opening up the side of the staircase that faces the bedrooms. (I know that is a support wall but it could still be opened up.) While you would then have to heat/cool the staircase area itself, this would open up the back hall area so that it doesn't feel cramped. And, it would also make it MUCH easier to move furniture up/down the staircase to the bonus room. It is awfully hard to get furniture up an enclosed staircase with a 90 degree turn in the middle. I also suspect you would find yourself actually using your bonus room more just because, psychologically, you would notice more often that you actualy HAVE one.

Just my ideas and I know a picture is worth a thousand words so... here is a sketch made on top of yours using my paint program. I do hope your architect won't mind.

a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii82/bevangel_72/?action=view¤t=Lezli.jpg"; target="_blank">

Oh, one last thing. It doesn't bother me to have my living room open to the foyer but if you want to put a psycological barrier there, consider putting a wall with about a 4ft wide arched opening between the foyer and living area. It would block the view into the living room a little bit and give you a real, albeit tiny "foyer."

Oh, one more last thing... here is a link to what I mean about the kitchen corner cabinet with appliance garage. This one isn't very pretty but it'll give you an idea about what I mean as far as the SHAPE you want so you can maximize useful storage.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Oh my goodness!!! What awsesome feedback and help ! I'm speechless ............. A special thanks to bevangel ... what talent ... and such a generous spirit. Thank you Thank you Thank you. I've sent your suggestions to the architect and builder - we'll see what they say about cost .... :) I'm so appreciative ....

You're very welcome! Keep us posted on how it all works out.

And before you give final acceptance of this or any other plan, make some "cut to scale" paper cutouts to represent every single major piece of furniture you plan to put in each room and make sure it is all going to fit and still leave space to walk around as needed.

If most of your current furniture is 20 years old or more (like mine was before we built our new home!) and you're planning on getting lots of new stuff for the new house, get your tape measure and go to the stores and actually MEASURE the dimensions of sofas, beds, chairs, chests, etc. that you like. Unfortunately, because so many people went in for gigantic houses for so many years (and maybe because Americans were getting heftier), furniture manufacturers responded by making furniture bigger as well. I was shocked to find out how much bigger modern sofas, armchairs and refrigerators were than the ones I had in my old house. Fortunately, I did the measuring before I had my floorplans finalized so I was able to make a couple of necessary adjustments - like leaving a larger space for the fridge than I had anticipated! And of course practically everyone now feels they need at least a queen size bed in the master-bedroom instead of a standard!

It is possible tho to find more compact sofas and chairs that just as comfortable as the big cushiony stuff - if your look for it. But not everyone likes the look of the less "hefty" furniture. Luckily I think that, with the sizes of new homes starting to shrink a little, we'll soon be seeing more options in compact furniture.

Just thought I'd mention the issue.

Good luck with everything. Can't wait to see pics as your build progresses!

Bev laid it down. She's awesome.

Entryway could look very nice after the finish carpenter trims it out. You can play with doorswing/config of the entry closet as well as closet sizes.

We have an open floorplan not unlike yours and one thing we've found after a few months living is a need for enclosed storage. We sacrificed that for living space - much of which we use relatively infrequently.

Good luck with your project. Be aware finishing stage is where the money really starts to burn. Other than the debt, it can be a great experience!

Really like Bev's plan. I'd swing the entry door the opposite direction and have a smaller portion devoted to entry closet.

I'd like more windows on the sides of the house (and none in a closet). Could you put a skylight in the porch roof to help keep the interior of the house bright?

Could you stub in plumbing for a future sink and toilet in the bonus room? Some storage up there (maybe under the eaves)? A real closet? This would make the house list as a 4 BR. (Can't recall the window situation for this room.)

I enjoy being able to see who is approaching the house from the window over my kitchen sink!

Bev did a great job with the changes. When you're ready to tackle the details of the kitchen, I'd encourage you to post your kitchen layout on the kitchens forum. It's very active and people get great advice on layout and organization.

Small tip: I did almost all drawers in my lower kitchen cabinets and it's the best thing I did in our reno. I have just a few regular lower cabinets and wish I had made them drawers.

The linked thread is long but helpful. Scroll down to see the pictures of kitchen drawer organization ideas.

Here is a link that might be useful: Drawers for kitchen cabinets thread in Kitchens Forum

Oh my goodness ... such great comments and encouragement. Thank you all so much. dyno -- I so appreciate your input in regard to the importance of storage, and the reminder about the cost of the finishing stage. I need the reminder about cost, especially ... would hate for building a house to end a great marriage .... :) chisue - I agree more windows would be good. I hope to add or widen several of the windows once we get an idea on the revised cost.

And bev, I appreciate the FYI in regard to the furniture! I actually do have a concern about great room furniture ... especially if we reduce the width of the great room in the process of increasing the size of the kitchen. The original great room width was 14'7" but we've taken out 2'4" with the expanded kitchen. I really don't want the great room to shrink that much - if any! So what would you all think about "stopping" the kitchen wall just a hair past the entryway, then floating a a small bar at about the same spot where the original penninsula was? Maybe a bar on an angle, with one "leg" off of it going toward the garage side of the house? Or ??? Any thoughts about that out there? Again ... what a wonderful resource you all are. I hope to be able to give back ...... thank you!

The lack of storage is definitely an issue . . . I would try to work on that. The closet bevangel added helps but those type of closets (we have one) seem to become black holes.

Does the 14'7 width take out the fireplace and bookshelves? If not, a hearth is generally 20 inches and the fireplace will be around the same so you are talking about close to 4 feet coming out because of the fireplace. Honestly, I don't think 14' 7" is adequate, particularly since you have to allow for 2 feet at least to walk around it in the rear . . .

It would probably help to make a drawing of your living room floor plan to scale on graph paper, and cut out separate scale sized pieces for your furniture. Then try placing your couch, chairs etc. around the room and see what kind of walk ways you'd have and how things will fit.

I did this prior to our addition and figured out that just a small change (angling 2 corners in our great room) really impacted how and where I could place furniture. (So we nixed the angles and went with regular corners.)

I think you'll find that 14' gets used up really fast.

chicagoans - thanks for the tip on the kitchen thread .. and the drawers!! And appreciate the link very much. And athensmomof3 - the 14'7" is from the front of the fireplace but not the hearth. Yep ... I'm thinking I need to try to figure out how to get the best of the redrawn kitchen without giving up any sq ft in the great room .... :) Thanks!

Okay ... here's a take-off on bev's suggestion for the kitchen - scaling it back a bit and incorporating a pantry. HOWEVER, since I want the hood vented to the outside, the GC is saying the stove has to go against the garage wall. That means the stove and refrig will have to trade places. I'm not crazy about the refrigerator being 'into' the kitchen, but really want the pantry, and don't want a cooktop in the penninsula so it may just have to be that way.

My problem with this idea is that I still think the wall behind the "stove changing to refrig" extends too far into the great room making furniture placement difficult and the great room feel smaller. I'm wondering about stopping the wall just past what will be the refrigerator, then rounding the penninsula instead of squaring it out? Comments? Suggestions?

Here is a link that might be useful:

Like you, I would not want to swap the stove and fridge locations. My concern would be that this would put the stove along a high-traffic aisleway increasing the chance that someone would brush against a pot handle and wind up getting burned. I much prefer having the stove where it is because it is tucked OUT of the way of traffic.

I'm not sure I understand WHY the stove needs to be moved for venting purposes anyway. To me it looks like in either spot the vent ductwork would have to travel upward to a rooftop opening and the distance to the roof is going to be about the same in either spot. In fact, depending on the roof design, it looks moving the stove up against the garage wall could result in the vent coming thru the roof right where you would have a roof "valley" - which is definitely NOT the place to have anything puncturing the roof. But, without seeing the roof plan or at least an elevation sketch tho, it is impossible to be sure.

My bigger concern with the current stove location is whether you have enough open work surface on the right side of the stove. On the kitchen forum, most people will recommend at least 18 inches on each side. 18 inches is great however I spent twenty-five years in a kitchen where I had just 12 inches of work space on each side of my stove... and only 36 inches across the aisle by the sink! So I know one can live with that little but it isn't fun. Since you have the penninsula to the left of the stove, the amount of workspace on the right is probably a bit less critical - but you should think about it.

Ultimately, if it turns out that the stove CAN be vented to the roof, I think I would leave the stove where it is and put a nice hood over it with no upper cabinets beside the hood and then just live with the short run of countertop to the right of the stovetop.

While I don't think that wall behind the stove extends too far into the living area for good furniture placement, I do think it might look better planned if you stopped the wall at the spot where the great room ceiling starts sloping downward (the dotted line). That would be a more natural "stopping point" for that wall. Then you could round off or angle off the penninsula to that point.

I am so pleased to see you found a way to incorporate a nice large pantry! I wonder tho if it might not be better to make the pantry a bit smaller and regain the two feet of counter top and cabinetry to the left of the sink? In other words, push the pantry wall and its door back so that they are even with the wall behind the stove and you have a short aisleway to the right of the stove leading to the pantry door. Your kitchen would look and feel larger and kitchen window would again appear to be centered in the kitchen wall. You would gain use-able counter-top space to the left of the sink.

Of course, if you do this AND find that you can keep your stove where it is, you will once again have created a traffic aisle close to the stove. But hopefully guests/children would be less likely to be getting in/out of the pantry than getting in/out of the fridge while you're cooking.

I see you're created a small closet for the back hallway. I'm a bit concerned about how small that leaves bedroom #2 closet but, if that bedroom is only used for occasional overnight guests, the tiny closet is probably okay.

I also note that although you've moved the waterheater out from under the stairs, you still show the space under the stairs enclosed and with a door opening into the laundry room. I still think you would be happier if you opened up the space under the upper set of risers completely and incorporated it into your laundry room. Then to access the useable storage space under the landing itself, put a short door that opens toward the hallway by the bathroom door. I really think that would be the most useful configuration of the space as it would make your laundry room 50% bigger and still give you some storage space under the stairs.

*Warning*: Anti-Pantry rant follows:

I fail to see the appeal of a separate pantry in today's homes, especially small ones. Originally houses had pantries because they had NO storage in the kitchen -- no fridges either. I use my big back hall closet to store 'reserves' for the kitchen, along with coats, the central vac hose, mops and broom, etc. My kitchen has more upper and lower cabinets and drawers than I even *need*. I would prefer not to have to open a door and step into a little closet (called a pantry) to get what I need in the kitchen.

I'd cheerfully dump the 'pantry' in this plan to have a back hall closet and larger laundry room. I'd rather have more cabinets in the kitchen and another *window* instead of using that exterior wall for a storage closet.

*End of Rant* -- You may resume normal activities. LOL

Thanks to both of you, bev and chisue! This forum - and especially the two of you - has been such an incredibly helpful find. The generosity of time, creativity, experience and talent that is shared so freely here is wonderful. As we progress through this build, I just hope that I will have something to share with someone, too.

We made the changes you suggested, bev ... then looked everything over, went back and forth, then finally finalized our plans yesterday. We never could get the bigger kitchen to balance with what we wanted for the great room space, so ended up scaling it back to it's original size again. And yes, the pantry had to go. But we did get the stove and refrigerator placement straightened out. Whew .....

Much of the way the back hall part of the house is done reflects ideas you shared on one of my previous posts, chisue. We used Bev's suggested master suite and closet, but moved the front door over to put the entry/storage walk-in closet on the left and create some wall space in the great room. The builder was adamant about not messing with that stairwell load-bearing wall, and we didn't want the expense associated with trying to do it, so we moved the laundry room wall over a bit and got a sink in there and we'll have the space under the stairs for a closet for the vacuum, mop, broom, reserves, etc. And bev we did have them put a door on the hallway side to access the storage space under the landing. I also had the door for the bonus room moved up to the bonus room instead of at the bottom of the stairs as you suggested. Good ideas.

We split bdrm 2's closet to get a back hall coat closet. Depending on what I want to store in the kitchen and how much space I'll have there to store it, that might end up being a "kitchen" storage closet (aka a "pantry") :) although I really don't think I'll need it ... and would much rather have it for coats. That does make bdrm 2 have a small closet, but that will be our office so we're okay with it. If we ever sell the house, someone could easily reverse this idea.

All in all for a small house, the plan looks pretty balanced to us now given the way we live in a house. Neither the kitchen nor the laundry room are as big as I'd hoped ... but they both appear to be adequate and we'll try to maximize cabinets in both; the kitchen forum may have some ideas on the kitchen. I've raised a family in a much smaller version of both so know it can be done .... and now it's just my husband and I, so it will be more than plenty. I have already gotten some great ideas - from reading the forum! - on organizational ideas that are bound to help.

So thank you to everyone! And now it's time to move to the next stage. I am so appreciative of this forum.
Lezli
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I've been away a few day, hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving!

Lezli, I just want to say I agree with you in regards to the help and feedback here.. just awesome isn't it!? What is really wonderful is that you found it BEFORE you started building, so many great suggestions and ideas we often overlook! Good luck on your build, we are still working out the final drawings with the draftsmen (who we may have to fire!)