Colleen, I got the recipe from the "tomato" thread. As Lars said, I think it would go very well with tomatoes. If only I had some worth eating, alas. Anyway, here's the recipe as posted by Lars. Rye Bread with Caraway and Fennel 1-1/2 pound loaf (approx.): 2 tbsp caraway seeds 1 tbsp fennel seeds 1-1/2 cups water 2 tbsp onion powder (can substitute 1/4 cup pureed onion) 1-1/8 cups dark rye flour 1-7/8 cups bread flour 2 tbsp semolina flour 2 tbsp VWG 2 tbsp brown sugar 1-1/2 tsp salt 2 tbsp olive oil 1 tbsp IDY Grind caraway seeds and fennel seeds in a coffee grinder that is used only for spices. Add the seeds to the water (I use a 2 cup Pyrex measuring cup) and microwave for one minute. Stir and microwave 20 more seconds, and then add the onion powder (or pureed onion if you are using that). If using pureed onion instead of onion powder, you can reduce the water by 2 tablespoons. Allow the ground seeds to sit in the warm water until the water has cooled to about 100 degrees. Meanwhile, add the flours, wheat gluten, sugar, and salt to the bread machine pan and stir gently with a plastic spatula. Add the oil to this mixture and stir slightly. Insert pan into the machine and lock in place. When the seeds have soaked for at least 15 minutes, add the seed/water mixture to the bread machine pan. Close the lid and add the yeast to the yeast dispenser. Set the machine for small loaf (1-1/2 pounds), medium crust, and regular loaf, or you can use the pizza setting if you want to shape the loaf yourself. Start the machine. When the bread is done, remove from pan and rub all sides with butter, and then allow the loaf to cool on a wire rack before storing it in a bag. Wait at least one hour before slicing. These directions are for the Panasonic bread machine that I have, and so you may have to adjust them if you have a different machine. The bread has a very intense flavor, and so you can cut back on the seeds/onion, but I like with a strong flavor. It is not as versatile as plain bread, but it makes great sandwiches. Grainlady gave me the suggestion to soak the seeds first, so that they will not cut the gluten strands, I think. Anyway, the loaf came out nice and light - not dense at all. Lars Colleen, I will definitely make this again, it's very flavorful, although I might cut the brown sugar to one tablespoon and get a slightly more savory dough in some instances. Annie

I love the caraway seeds in rye bread, Dad didn't, so much. I told him it was too bad, if he wanted me to share, he'd eat it my way. LOL Actually, I divided the dough in half and added caraway to one loaf and left his without. Ann T's recipe is very good, I like it a lot. When I don't have sour cream, I make this one which calls for yogurt, I always have that because I make my own several quarts at a time. This is a dark pumpernickel rye from Dorie Greenspan. Carol/Readinglady first pointed me toward it, and for that I thank her. I've found prune lekvar in cans occasionally, but it's easy to make it using the directions in the recipe. I will admit that Dorie Greenspan completely lost me on the shaping and the resting in the sling, LOL. I cut the recipe in half, toss the wet ingredients in the bread machine after melting the chocolate, butter and shortening. I follow with the dry ingredients, top it off with the yeast and salt, set it on dough. When it's done kneading and rising I shape, rise and bake. (shrug) It works for me, but I'll give you the whole package deal, in case you want to do it that way. (grin) Pumpernickel Rye Bread 1 cup boiling water 1 tablespoon instant espresso 2 1/2 ounces unsweetened chocolate, coarsely chopped 1/4 cup unsulphured molasses 1 stick (4 ounces) [1/2 cup] unsalted butter, cut into small cubes 5 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast Pinch of sugar 1/2 cup warm water (105 to 115 degrees F) 2 cups plain yogurt, at room temperature 1/4 cup solid vegetable shortening 1/2 cup prune lekvar* (also sold as prune butter in specialty markets and some supermarkets) 2 tablespoons ground caraway seeds (grind whole seeds in a spice or coffee grinder) 1 1/2 tablespoons caraway seeds 1 tablespoon salt 3 1/2 cups coarse rye meal or medium rye flour 6 cups (approximately) high-gluten flour, bread flour, or unbleached all-purpose flour Melted butter, for greasing the mixing bowl * Prune Lekvar: Put 3 cups (packed) pitted prunes in a medium saucepan, cover with water, and bring to the boil. Lower the heat and simmer until the prunes are very soft, about 10 minutes; drain, reserving 1 tablespoon of the liquid. Place the prunes and liquid, 1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice, and 1/3 cup sugar in the work bowl of a food processor fitted with the metal blade and process until puréed. Scrape the prune butter into a bowl and stir in 1/4 cup very finely chopped walnuts. Packed in a tightly sealed jar, the prune butter will keep in the refrigerator for at least 2 weeks. Makes about 1 cup. Brush a large (about 8-quart) bowl with melted butter; set aside. Mixing and Kneading Put the boiling water and espresso powder into a small heavy-bottomed saucepan and stir to dissolve espresso. Add the chocolate, molasses, and butter and cook over low heat, stirring occasionally, until the butter and chocolate melt. Pour the mixture into another large (about 8-quart) bowl. Meanwhile, whisk the yeast and pinch of sugar into the warm water; let rest until creamy, about 5 minutes. Using a wooden spoon, stir the yogurt, shortening, lekvar, caraway seeds, and salt into the butter-chocolate mixture. When the ingredients are well blended and the mixture is just warm to the touch (no hotter than 110 degrees F), stir in the yeast and the rye meal. Using lots of elbow grease, stir in enough of the high-gluten flour, 1/2 cup to 1 cup at a time, to make a very moist dough. (You’ll probably use almost 6 cups of flour.) When it is too difficult to stir the dough, turn it out onto a work surface well dusted with high gluten flour and knead until smooth and elastic but still soft and moist, about 10 minutes. The dough may seem a little pasty at first ��" because of the rye meal ��" but its texture will change with energetic kneading. While you’re working, add only as much additional flour as you need to keep the dough from sticking to the table and your hands. (You can make this dough in a heavy-duty mixer fitted with a dough hook. Once the yeast and rye meal have been added to the other ingredients, mix on low speed, scraping down the sides of the bowl as necessary, for about 2 minutes. Add about 5 cups of the high-gluten flour, 1 cup at a time, and beat on low speed for 3 to 4 minutes. Increase the speed to medium and beat in as much additional flour as needed to make a soft dough that will clean the sides of the bowl, then beat for about 8 minutes, until the dough is smooth and elastic.) First Rise Form the dough into a ball and transfer it to the buttered bowl. Cover the bowl with buttered plastic wrap and top with a kitchen towel. Let the dough rise at room temperature for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, or until it has doubled in volume. Second Rise When the dough is fully risen, deflate it, turn it over, cover as before, and let it rise for about 1 hour, or until it doubles in bulk again. Rolling and shaping Deflate the dough, transfer it to a lightly floured work surface, and divide it in half. Work with one piece of dough and keep the other covered with a towel or plastic wrap. Lay 2 clean kitchen towels on the counter and sprinkle them with flour; keep close at hand. On a lightly floured surface, pat the dough into a rectangle about 8 inches by 14 inches. Starting at the short end farthest from you, roll the dough into a tight roll, pinching and sealing the seams you form with each roll as you go. Stand the roll on end and push your fingers down into the loaf, tucking some of the dough into the loaf as you burrow your fingers down into it. Then squeeze the end of the dough to elongate it, pinch it to seal, and fold each corner into the center, creating two triangles ��" it’s like making hospital corners on a bed. Tuck the end under the bread, attaching it to the bottom seam, and repeat the borrowing, squeezing, folding, and tucking with the other end of the coil. Rotate and plump the dough to get a nicely shaped, rounded oval. Place the loaf, seam side up, diagonally on one of the floured kitchen towels and form a sling by joining the opposite corners of the towel, slip an S-hook through the hole, and suspend the sling from a cupboard or door knob (or tie the ends of the towel together to form a sling and suspend it). Shape the second piece of dough in the same manner and tuck it intoa sling. Rest The loaves should rest undisturbed in their slings for 40 minutes. The Topping and Glaze Sesame and/or caraway seeds )optional 1 large egg white 1 teaspoon cold water Position a rack in the lower third of the oven and preheat the oven to 450 degrees F. If the loaves are to bake on a baking or pizza stone, preheat the stone too and generously dust a peel with cornmeal. Of they will bake on baking sheets, brush or spray one or two large, preferably dark steel, baking sheets with vegetable oil and sprinkle with cornmeal. For added flavor, use some sesame and/or caraway sees in combination with the cornmeal to dust the peel or sheets. (To create steam in the oven, you’ll be tossing ice cubes and water onto the oven floor. If you don’t think your oven floor is up to this ��" it can be tricky with a gas oven ��" put a heavy skillet or roasting pan on the oven floor and preheat it as well.) Whisk the egg white and water together and push the mixture through a sieve; reserve. Release the slings and transfer the loaves, smooth side up, to the prepared peel or baking sheet(s), keeping the loaves at least 3 inches apart. These loaves are very big and unusually soft, so handle them carefully. Give the loaves a last plumping with your hands and using a sharp serrated knife or a single-edge razor blade, slash the top of each loaf 3 times: The slashes should run horizontally across the loaf at a slight angle and should be about 1 inch deep. Paint each loaf with a generous coating of glaze, taking care not to paint the slashes. Sprinkle the loaves with caraway and/or sesame seeds, if you’re using them. Baking the bread Put 4 ice cubes in a 1-pint measuring cup and add 1/4 cup cold water. Put the loaves into the oven, immediately toss the ice cubes and water onto the oven floor (or into the pan), and quickly close the oven door to trap the steam produced by the ice. Bake the loaves for 10 minutes, then reduce the oven temperature to 350 degrees F and bake for 35 to 40 minutes more, or until the loaves are deeply browned and the bottoms produce a hollow sound when rapped. (The internal temperature of the loaves should measure 200 degrees F on an instant-read thermometer.) Remove the loaves and cool on a rack. The loaves must cool completely before they can be cut, so plan to wait 2 to 3 hours after baking. Storing You can keep the bread in plastic bags at room temperature for 2 days or wrap the loaves airtight and freeze them for up to 1 month. Thaw, still wrapped, at room temperature. This is a moist and sweet rye bread, very good with bean soup. Annie

There's probably no one single answer to your question, but here are some things to consider: 1. Exact measures (cups or weight) for flour in recipes for bread making is only a good guess. You must go by the feel of the dough and only add as much flour as is required to make a nice soft dough. Depending on the bakers' percentages (of dry to liquid) and the type of bread, it may even need to be a very well-hydrated, loose dough and "wetter is better" in that case. Wet dough = a holey texture. Because of differences in the moisture level of the flour, the differences in the protein levels of flour from one bag to another (gluten really soaks up a lot of hydration), even the differences in the amount of humidity in the air in the kitchen from one baking day to another, all influence the hydration of the dough and you may need more or less flour than the recipe calls for. I make sourdough bread and NEVER measure the flour - it's by "feel". 2. Depending on how much rye flour you are adding (it suggests 1 c. or 1/2 c., or more) the stickier your dough will be. That's a characteristic of rye flour in bread dough. If you don't know this, you may be adding more flour to compensate for the stickiness and have actually added too much flour. Dry dough = dry bread and occasionally, a "brick". It certainly won't have that nice open texture you are looking for. Expect a lot of stickiness in rye bread dough. Always err to the side of a wet dough. 3. Doubling the recipe... You may be getting different results because you haven't kneaded it enough (due to the additional bulk) to develop the gluten. It may take more kneading time. Are you doing a test, such as windowpaning (aka membrane test) to see if the gluten has developed enough during kneading? 4. Dough does NOT rise to a clock, rather to the amount and strength of the yeast, as well as the moisture and ambient temperature. I use a dough rising bucket with a tight-fitting lid on it (aka dough doubler) for accurately knowing when dough has "doubled". If you put 1-qt./1-L in a dough rising bucket, when the dough is up to the 2-qt./2-L line (there are usually graduated measurements on these plastic tubs), you know the dough has doubled. It eliminates the guess work and it's the ONLY accurate way to know how much your dough has risen. Certainly not an inacurate slant-sided bowl, nor by using the poke-it-with-your-fingers test method after playing peek-a-boo with the dough hidden under a towel. A straight-sided dough rising bucket is accurate and it holds the moisture in to prevent the dough from drying out, with the lid. If you don't cover dough properly, the air can create a skin on the dough surface and it will prevent the dough from rising properly. In this particular recipe, I suspect "double" is allowing it to rise too much. Because our flour is no longer bromated, it doesn't have the extensibility it used to have when "double" was the normal standard for how long to allow the dough to rise. You also have the addition of rye flour that has very little gluten, therefore going to "double" may actually be slightly over-proofing the dough. "Double" for a rustic loaf is also probably allowing it to rise too much. Double again for the final proofing, and you may end up with a shorter loaf due to over-proffing the dough twice. You also don't say what type of flour you are using. I'd suggest a high-protein bread flour such as King Arthur or Robin Hood, in combination with rye. If you are using all-purpose flour, you may need to add some gluten to the recipe. 5. How are you adding moisture to the oven? Because of the additional bulk in the oven (2 loaves instead of 1) you may not be getting as much oven-spring from the method you are using to add moisture. I'd suggest Christopher Kimball's method (as described in "The Cook's Bible". Place a small cast iron skillet on a separate (low) rack in the oven during pre-heating. Bring 2 cups of water to a boil. Wear thick oven mits and long sleeves to protect your arm, and pour the boiling water from a (new/clean) long-spouted watering can into the skillet. Shut the door and no peeking. If you open the door in the first 20 minutes of baking, you'll let out the steam. No spritzing necessary. The "dash of water" in the oven, and the continual spritzing method aren't enough moisture for a good amount of oven spring to the loaves. Another bad method is tossing ice cubes in the oven.... See if there is something there that makes some sense to you. Good luck! -Grainlady

I obtained this from JoyceS' board several years ago. It is wonderful. The Best New York Rye Bread I find to make it lighter I always let it rise longer then what the bread machine allows. After the first kneading cycle, I will Reset my machine to start over (twice). A nice traditional New York Rye bread made much easier by using the bread machine. JoyceS's 1 cup plus 2 tablespoons warm water 1 1/3 tablespoons vegetable oil 2 tablespoons honey 1 teaspoon salt 2 2/3 teaspoons caraway seeds 1 1/3 cups rye flour 2 1/3 cups bread flour 1/4 cup vital gluten 1/4 cup dry milk 2 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast Place all ingredients in to your bread machine in the order specified by your machine's manual. Set the cycle to Basic or White. Makes 1 1 1/2 pound loaf Note: What I do here is set my machine on the 'Dough Cycle'. I then form it to shape, let it rise some more then bake it.