Miele DishWasher Blues - Are you supposed to pre rinse prior to l

15 years ago

I've never had a DW ...so bear with me.

Is a DW moreso for sanitizing or cleaning

Have a miele intergrated and I cannot get a load 100% clean at times. Plates just come out with dried remnents - super hard due to heat drying process. Sometimes, small stainless containers are still slightly greasy. Simple things like dinner plates - maybe one or two will still be dirty.

Granted, I have played around with various styles of loading if not soap...

Just short of prerinsing, if not even taking a sponge to grimy pots before I start a DW load, this is the only way I can ensure after the cycle, all plates are clean.

Am I missing something here. Granted, for the most part, all plates are pretty much scraped clean prior to loading.

I recall reading some threads where their Mieles was loaded up to the nil-with some pretty grimey caked on casseroles dishes I couldn't even fanthom NOT PRE-RINSING if I had to load up MY Miele, and the users swear all dishes come out clean. I've checked and triple checked and water softness comes out clean. I'm even usually running it on the hotter cycles too - pots/pans, even though I may be just washing everyday dinnerware for a load of 5 people.

So am I having the wrong expectations, in that in theory, I should be able to load up my Miele DW with scraped clean dishes, and expect each and every single dish that goes in to be clean.

Or am I doing this wrong...and all dishes should be pre rinsed with some really grimey ones pre-rinsed & scrubbed...and the DW primary function is to sanitize.

Any and all suggestions are welcome !

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Comments (5)

homepro01
15 years ago
I don't pre rinse and I barely scrape. I never have oily dishes. What detergent are you using? There are several miele threads where people have described similar problems and stopping pre rinsing and using enzyme based detergents have solved the problem.

Good luck!
wa8b
15 years ago
I never prerinse before loading dishes in my Miele. I just scrape the big stuff off, and load. Everything usually comes out spotless. That being said, you need to load in such a way that the spray can reach the entire surface of each item, if not directly by the spray jets, then at least in such a way that wash water is likely to reach the entire surface of each object. If a part of an item is obscured with no space between it and the dish placed next to it.....it may not get clean.

Beyond that, you need to be using an enzyme based detergent. The enzymes will soften food particles and dissolve grease so that they can be washed away. Look at the list of active ingredients in your detergent. If you see the word chlorine, you're using a chlorine based detergent which simply won't deliver optimal results in most modern dishwashers. Look for a different formulation or brand that doesn't include chlorine. Chances are, a non-chlorine based detergent will be an enzyme-based detergent, even if you don't see the word enzyme on the label. Chlorine and enzymes are not compatible, so any detergent containing chlorine won't contain enzymes.

I use Electrosol (soon to be re-branded as Finish brand) tablets with excellent results. There are other brands that will work equally as well. Cascade brand is available in both chlorine-based and enzyme-based formulations, so you need to read the label. If you see the word chlorine, look for a different formulation.

Miele dishwashers also require a rinse agent like Jet-Dry or Cascade rinse agent. If you're not using a rinse agent, you'll get poor drying results, so you want to make sure that you always have a rinse agent in the dispenser. If your water is hard, you might also get better results if you add salt to the on-board water softener in your Miele dishwasher. Soft water may or may not improve wash results, but properly softened water will ensure that you always get dishes without a film or spots left by any excess mineral content in your water supply.

Hope this helps.
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From what you're describing, I suspect the hard water is to blame. Phosphates used to work really well, but wreaked havoc on the environment. We already have enough problems with run off into the Pacific; don't need to add even more fertilizer. These days, dishwashing detergents rely on enzymes to break down food residue, and rely on small amounts of surfactants (i.e. soap) to rinse things off. That can work even better than the old type of detergent. But it generally isn't as effective the harder the water is. You probably notice that when showing too. You need more soap to wash, and then when you rinse the soap doesn't really want to come off. I live in a part of the Bay Area that is fortunate enough to get Hetch Hetchy water. So, our water is exceptionally soft. That would explain the different experiences. If you don't want to move a few miles North, your best bet is getting a water softener. Alternatively, keep experimenting with different detergents. Maybe you'll find one that works better in your situation. And definitely make sure to use rinse aid. With hard water you have to. It's the same problem as with showering. The water can't wash off everything. And in the case of a dishwasher, this is water that still has some food particles. So, you'll see residue when things dry
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@ gibby3000 Please see this from Wikipedia: This film starts as an iridescence or "oil-film" effect on glassware, and progresses into a "milky" or "cloudy" appearance (which is not a deposit) that cannot be polished off or removed like limescale. It is formed because the detergent is strongly alkaline (basic) and glass dissolves slowly in alkaline aqueous solution. It becomes less soluble in the presence of silicates in the water (added as anti-metal-corrosion agents in the dishwasher detergent). Since the cloudy appearance is due to nonuniform glass dissolution, it is (somewhat paradoxically) less marked if dissolution is higher, i.e. if a silicate-free detergent is used; also, in certain cases, the etching will primarily be seen in areas that have microscopic surface cracks as a result of the items' manufacturing.[9][10] Limitation of this undesirable reaction is possible by controlling water hardness, detergent load and temperature.[11] The type of glass is an important factor in determining if this effect is a problem. In hard-water areas more detergent is needed to help prevent etching, and some dishwashers can reduce this etching effect by automatically dispensing the correct amount of detergent throughout the wash cycle based on the level of water hardness programmed. I have a Miele dishwasher that is fed tap cold, hard water and the dishwasher automatically softens it to the ideal level and also heats it to the perfect temperature for every cycle. You must have a COLD ONLY connection in order to use the china/glassware cycle. I hate to say it, gibby3000, but it's not your dishwasher.
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chipshot
15 years ago
I have snuck in a few truly dirty dishes (my wife is a dedicated and thorough rinser), and they have come out fine. We have only used Miele's tabs. Based on our success with them so far, I see no reason to try anything else.

I'm not sure what you mean by "heat drying process". Am I correct that Miele's and other "European-style" dishwashers use LESS heat than "American-style" dishwashers?
sshrivastava
15 years ago
Chefwong,

Miele does not use a heated dry process like many domestic brands. It uses evaporative drying whereby the internal moisture condenses onto the walls of the dishwasher. It accomplishes this by circulating room temperature air around the tub to cool down the inner walls to make condensation possible.

As far as your cleaning issues go, have you checked to ensure you don't have a blocked spray arm? My La Perla cleans very well, and I would never dream of pre-rinsing my dishes. I scrape off any food matter and load as usual without pre-rinsing or pre-washing of any kind. Pre-rinsing/pre-washing dishes defeats the purpose of having a water saving dishwasher.

I would check into a blocked spray arm, either by some dish item blocking its movement or perhaps some food is stick in the spray holes and is blocking water. Also, are you emptying and cleaning the filter on a regular basis?

Make sure you are using a good enzyme-based detergent. I use Cascade Complete as well as the action packs, they both give excellent results. The other item you may want to check into is whether you have hard water. Does your unit have a water softener? What is your water hardness?
clinresga
15 years ago
We never prerinse and get extremely clean results with our Excellas regardless of what soap we're using.

What model do you have?

What cycle are you using?

The latter can have a big impact on your results.

Miele DishWasher Blues - Are you supposed to pre rinse prior to l

Comments (5)

homepro01

wa8b

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sshrivastava

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