You would have to discuss this with the builder. When they hire the HVAC people - they will install the usual hvac and not take into account the geo thermal . So you will end up putting in 2 systems . That would not save you $$ . Only things that could be done after completion would not have the markup. The builder is basically getting 20% of whatever the cost of the house is. That's his fee . Have you interviewed independant builders to see if they could build the same house cheaper ? Sometimes a smaller builder will let you do some of
the work yourself to save on costs . Items like paint , landscaping and installing
lite fixtures and trim details . Good Luck

I am having trouble finding an independent builder because all I met thus far talk about how money will be transfered to them and ask questions to find out how much money I have, none talk about >whySo the usual process of building a house is one of the builder taking 20% or more of whatever is spent, regardless of the fact that they have nothing to do with certain parts of the house for which an authorized installer is called, a phone call I can make myself.

Small independent contractors do have to worry about money more and also getting stiffed. I suggest you review the different possible ways to do financing when you are doing an independent build. I also suggest you get a good geo=thermal guy to give you an estimate of how much geo-thermal would cost for your square footage and lot (for example I ended up with an extra well because they hit a limestone shelf a little short of where they needed to be)
Andd its that 20% markup on the regular HVAC price or the whole house? 20% on regular HVAC is probably a great deal, 20% on the house, depends on the cost of the house.

Re: "So the usual process of building a house is one of the builder taking 20% or more of whatever is spent, regardless of the fact that they have nothing to do with certain parts of the house for which an authorized installer is called, a phone call I can make myself."

The builder is responsible for contracting w/ the authorized installer, financing the installation w/ his money until he gets paid at closing (which for a geo-thermal system is not cheap), coodinating schedules, layout, etc w/ the installer, if the installer skips town w/ the builder's money that is his problem, ensuring the system performs as expected, & warranting that work.

If the system fails you call the builder who you have the contract with, not the HVAC installer who the builder had the contract with.

So the builder does have something to do with that effort & it is not as simple as just looking in the yellow pages & making a single phone call to the first AAA Heating & Cooling company you see.

There is time, money, & potential future money risks (warranty aspect) spent by the builder for these extras thus they should be paid for that. I think the best you could do is negotiate the 20% fee.

The only "workaround" is for you to be your own GC

I was going to suggest possible GCing yourself , too . If you have the time ,
patience and do the research - you will save alot of $$. I am GCing my own house BUT I have a background in the construction industry and real estate fields . I spent a huge amount of time planning and researchinmg my build. I will save about 40% but most of that is because of planning and research. There is a very good website called ownerbuilderbook,com . Check it out , Speak to your sigificant other and check with your bank (financing) to see if this might work. Sometimes it's difficult to get a construction loan when you owner build. Basically you are paying a builder for his time . Figure up the 20% and decide if your time is worth it . You will also have to be available during working hrs. to meet w/subs and oversee phases of construction -
so if you don't have a job that allows you to do that - it probably won't work.
One other thing to consider - Will you enjoy the process or will it be a pain
in the *ss ? If you dread it - it will be a disaster . Good Luck whatever you decide .

What does it take in money and time to get certified as your own GC? What's the markup on construction loans banks give to newbie GC's with no prior experience?

There is a letter of credit and the construction loan would be approved before building begins, there are large cash reserves on top of the approved construction loan, does that not ease worries the builder may have about getting paid?

If extra work can be paid for in full and with cash, then that takes the money out of the equation.

One day after I send the builder off, I can make any modifications to the house I want, so I'm trying to find out if there is a workaround to make (and pay for) some of those modifications myself to someone else just before the builder leaves? I understand this messes with the business model the subdivision builders have, but there's no harm in asking.

Re: "What does it take in money and time to get certified as your own GC?"

In most areas you can be the GC for your own house but you have to live in it for a year prior to selling.

Re: "If extra work can be paid for in full and with cash, then that takes the money out of the equation."

That would help but there is still the time factor to coordinate & schedule w/ X number of subs that are involved & warranty costs that the builder will incur.

Re: "One day after I send the builder off, I can make any modifications to the house I want, so I'm trying to find out if there is a workaround to make (and pay for) some of those modifications myself to someone else just before the builder leaves?"

Well, in most areas to do it legally you would have to get a new permit to change things out like an HVAC system. And the HVAC system needs to be in place functioning properly before the COO is issued.

If you are just trying to save the 20% markup on the extras but are satisfied with the rest of the build's cost I don't think being your own GC is a good route to go. I would still negotiate w/ the builder, tell him you'll take responsibility for the cash investment, work out something on the warranty issue, & pay him for his time to coodinate the geo-thermal HVAC installation.

The geo-thermal HVAC installation is a different beast as far as most upgrades/extras people usually discuss here.

At the low-end of upgrades/extras you might want a $200 light fixture versus the $20 one the builder has budgeted for. And you might have a problem w/ paying the extra $36 per light fixture (20% of $180 differential) for every light you upgrade because it does add up. But nothing else needs modifying to implement this upgrade/extra, all the electrician does is wire it in in the same manner he would wire the $20 one in. The builder does have a higher warranty charge to face in case of failure but that can be dealt with typically if he brings it up as an issue.

The mid-range upgrade/extra might be for a high-end $8,000 48" Viking stove/range instead of the typical $800 30" GE stove. So this will require working with the architect, the framers, the cabinet suppliers, the electrician, the plumber, etc. & most likely a new expensive vent hood will be required. This takes time & is a deviation to the 50 other homes his subs had work on w/ the $800 stove & problems will pop up. So the builder is justified in asking for a mark-up on this request, the question becomes how much of a mark-up is fair.

I would consider a geo-thermal implementation to be a high-end upgrade/extra in terms of money & the complexity involved in making the change. The architect, landscaper, plumber, if installing a septic system that definitely changes things, most likely a new HVAC sub (as most HVAC subs doing tract homes would not know where to begin w/ geo-thermal), electrician, the local jurisdiction's inspectors, etc will all spend extra time with getting this implemented.

This type of change definitely deserves a higher mark-up than changing out a light fixture.

Again, I think your best bet is to negotiate w/ the builder. Offer to pay upfront your money for the expense, tell him you'll take the warranty issue off his hands (& hope you can work out something w/ the HVAC installer directly in regards to warranty i.e. get a pass-thru), but don't expect the builder to let you work directly w/ all his subs mentioned above for the installation. So pay him extra for that time.

If you don't like his response find another builder that will allow you that flexibility. However, I don't think your expectation should be "well if the standard HVAC equipment would cost me $10,000 & this geo-thermal equipment will cost me $25,000 then I should only have to write a check for $15,000 & I'll save the $3,000 to $5,000 extra the builder wanted.

Great post and excellent example regarding light fixtures. Re: "I would still negotiate w/ the builder, tell him you'll take responsibility for the cash investment, work out something on the warranty issue, & pay him for his time to coordinate the geo-thermal HVAC installation."

That's great, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Because I do not know how the system works, people don't explain things like you do but instead get a little upset and I think interpret my questions as a sign of a potentially difficult person to work with.

But I'm just looking to find out how it's done and you are the very first person to offer actual extended advice.

Yes, I can pay upfront the money for the expense, yes I can take the warranty issue off his hands.
Yes I am willing to work things out if I could only get to have a conversation that would spell out what it would take.

Point taken on the $10,000 vs. $25,000 example.

My current problem is two fold:
1. They are concerned about the neighborhood and are convinced things will get stolen. They do have insurance but are stating that as one of the main reasons for not wanting to do the job. They are expecting me to come up with an answer to that.

I don't know how things work and I can brainstorm but out of the box ideas that I have may alienate them further.

I was thinking about how there are always small things to be done. So why not pay a person to do them during the third shift and that way serve as a deterrent to theft? Having a few good junk yard dogs? What can I do about their concern for theft?

They are asking me to give them $500 to get a general estimate for modifications I wish to find out if they are an option. Such as metal roof, geothermal heating, different and specific brand and model of siding and windows I asked about. Instead of giving them $500, I was thinking of finding out myself after which they can tack on any percentage they wish, from which I can conclude if that is an option for me or not.

It sounds like you have more issues than just wanting to upgrade to geothermal and I don't want to go into most of them, because I am not an expert in hiring a builder. I am just a homeowner; I GC'd my new build. I think you just need to keep looking for a builder who is interested in meeting you in the middle. Keep interviewing builders. I think as you go through the interviews, you will learn about their hesitations, you will learn more about the process and be able to present your needs easier as time goes on.

On a specific note about the geothermal, a previous poster touched on the complexity of a geothermal system. We put one in and it took a lot to find someone who wanted to put it in. We are rural and we couldn't get anyone from the big city to come down this far, so we went with a seasoned HVAC guy who wanted to try putting in a geothermal. We did have the supplier hold our hand, but I can attest to how complicated it is. Just to find the pump to push the fluid through 400ft of pipes was a month long process. No one could confirm that their pumps could do it and we didn't want to start with one that wouldn't and end up with a half way done mess. Truthfully, we all held our breath the day we fired it up.

Good luck with your build, no matter what way you go.

Maybe it varies by state I don't know. When I signed a contract with my builder the price was for a house without the septic and the geothermal wells. He had the HVAC guy put in the unit, I had the wells dug and paid them by check. Same with the septic guy. Coordination was necessary obviously and my GC was pretty easy with that and did some of it himself. Essentially he wasn't used to dealing with septic or geothermal and wanted to both limit his exposure and it was probably a way of getting more money out of the house build:(*
Nebraska isn't as regulated as some places though. But your right, it can't hurt to negotiate. As long as permits are pulled and its in the contract you should be good.