keitel, I just hope you can finally get your check and have this nightmare episode over with. I can't believe how much trouble you have had with your stove! I'm sure all of us are rooting for you and everyone else to obtain a successful conclusion to these issues before the end of the year comes!

Plum, I really hope the American works out for you. You've had more than several people's fair share of range troubles! Have you been working with the same dealer?

Sharon- Thanks! Surely my luck will turn...right?? But I do appreciate the warm wishes.

Regarding the dealer - yes and no - Wolf also processed our refund from them to the distributor to the retailer. I did confirm that we did not have to use them for the new purchase - it kind of seemed that way at first. We did ask the same dealer for pricing on the American and I waited over 9 days for a response. In the meantime, we got pricing within 10 minutes from another location.

So, when we told them we wanted to process the refund in full they kind of got busy getting pricing but it turned out to be very high compared to the other. Then they matched that price. I sent some questions and got another delay and hem and haw and just called American myself and got the answers I needed. As of today, they (retailer) told me it would be 6 weeks. I am trying to confirm that now.

I really leaning towards not dealing with them. They have not returned calls and the information we do get is when we call them back. Granted, they were great when we needed help with Wolf but now, it is a bit different.

Long answer to an easy question but I don't know yet if we will use them or not. In some ways it is easier since they are getting pd by Wolf to uninstall, deliver, reinstall but we can coordinate that ourselves if needed.

Our issues are no where near Dave's but I too am getting very frustrated with the whole process.

If they are dragging their feet on the sale side, it would make me concerned, too. Did you get the Bertazzoni from them?

What made you go with the American over the Bluestar?

plumor,
Just got chance to answer back. Mine is a 36" AG '07 model with the island trim up against the wall. We've had trouble from the beginning, but just with the burners not wanting to light with the oven on. I originally thought it was the 1/2" gas line I already had in place with my old cheapy Fridigaire that worked great. I installed a 3/4" and nothing changed. This is the only issue we've had. No smell, and no igniter problems. I called Factory Direct today and ask if they'd heard of any problems, of course not. They wanted to send someone out to look at it, but I know the salesman well (very knowledgeable) and just sent him the link to this as I don't want the scratching, sliding, taping, etc. until we hopefully get more insight on this problem.

seeroy - your symptoms sound just like mine! The only thing they have ever done to our range is to swap on the regulator - didn't need it. If they try the "it's the island trim" story it isn't. I've tried all kinds of different things, pans at the back, range in the middle of the floor, etc. it never matters - still happens. It has done this from the start but it does seem that it is more frequent now. Also, if you can get it on video at any time, I encourage that too. Mine would work find when service was here and then act up later. Do you ever have clicking when the oven is in preheat? Good luck - hope they can finally figure this out!

sharon - No - the Bertazzoni was purchased site unseen (bad idea!!) from Eurostoves. (who by the way, never knew the way the thing worked either) After service assured us everything was working as it was designed, we (a large group effort) decided we would never be comfortable with the way the oven operated. - since we are of off topic- you have to hold the oven door open, count to 15-18 and wait for ignition, the close the door. This and other things were very quirky. We were able to sell (at a loss) the range to a couple who had never had a gas range and saw no issues with the way the range worked. We still had it hooked up and showed them everything. I did write a letter to Bertazzoni, the distributor and copied Eurostoves. I never received a response from any of them. Wasn't asking for anything from them, just expressing the strangeness of the way the range operated.

Re - Blue Star. Honestly a few things make me nervous. Service - still only one dealer I know of in ATL (the same one we are dealing with on the Wolf) and he has said they had a "few minor issues" with some of the ranges but that there was some issues with servicing them. I don't know if that is a servicer issue or a distributor issue? But, the way my luck runs, I figure if I need service I want to be able to get it! Second, cost is a bit more for the Blue Star. More than we paid for the Wolf, if I am correct. And, can't help but wonder if it isn't "too much" for my house - as in too much of a range. I guess it is a little intimidating and I am really burnt out (no pun intended) on the whole thing. Plus, we thought we could trade out the two fairly quickly without waiting on stock - not sure that is the case anymore. And finally, still haven't seen a Blue Star live - matter of fact, the only one I've ever seen in person was one of the first models - the one with no center grates - and it was just kind of thrown together in the showroom with no effort. Didn't show very well, but wasn't hooked up either. I was able to see the American live.

At this point, I just want to cook again! Not that we can't, like Dave, but it takes a lot of planning of what to start when to keep it all going!

sharon - don't you have the island riser too? Is yours a model year prior to '07? Can you tell me if you door has vents at the top and side or if it is just the top?

Just curious - at this point, but can't help but wonder what else changed in 07 that would impact so many ranges!

Hi, Plum- Glad to hear you were able to find a buyer for the Berta. I remember the problems you were having, but I couldn't remember if the dealer took it back or not. Funny, the BlueStar dealer I spoke with (the only one in my area) wanted to charge me more for the Bluestar than the Wolf, too!

Yes, I have the island trim on my Wolf. Mine was installed at the end of October '06 (so just about a year ago). A few months before they started offering the gas ovens with the redesigned door--the one like the DF. I was so bummed that I missed that, but I guess now I'm glad, since I'm not having any trouble.

I have a vent-like grid at the top of my door, but nothing at the side. I haven't seen the redesigned doors. Hmm. Maybe I'll have to take a visit to a dealer over the holiday.

Just curious - at this point, but can't help but wonder what else changed in 07 that would impact so many ranges!

My sentiments exactly! I really want to stick with the Wolf AG (I enjoy it WHEN it's working properly!). They have to realize there is a problem (design flaw?) if the # of people with problem '07 models is increasing, and they have to correct it....

My plumber called yesterday to ask if he could put the new gas line in, either yesterday, or today. I had not herd from him in a while, and had given up on it being fixed by thanksgiving. Unfortunately one of my sons skinned his knee playing basketball, and has a possible staff infection from it. He can't go to school, and no one can come to our house. We canceled Thanksgiving, and I can't have the plumber in our house either, till they know what he has.

sharon - does your island vent kind of direct towards the front of the range or go up? Our door only has the vent at the top too. The dealers here all have the new model on display now so I couldn't compare the differences.

Seems like it would be so easy to compare what was used in production in 06 vs 07. Can it be it is easier to just keep buying the darn things back instead of finding/fixing the problem? Or are we just squeaky wheels and they are hoping with us, the problem will go away.

Bob, I am so sorry about your son. Hope he is feeling better soon and that the quarantine is lifted quickly. At least you will all be together T'Day - :O ) ~~

Bob, I'm so sorry about your son. I hope he's ok! What a stressful time for you.

Cat Mom, I have to think that they screwed something up by adding the duct tape. I hope they get to the bottom of this fast.

Plum, I'm pretty sure it vents straight up, but I'll pay more attention the next time I run the oven.

Thanks - ours is kind of forward facing (the vents)...

Well, mine faces sort of forward, too. But any moisture... seems to go up. Took a quick look, but didn't see a picture on their site. I don't think they changed the trim design.

Bob--Please keep us posted re: your son. I hope he's ok!

Sharon--I don't know if the tape screwed anything up, but it certainly didn't help at all. I need to call Wolf/distributor, but I am dragging my feet because I just don't feel like dealing with it and haven't really had a chance to discuss with DH anyway (parents are here for the week and tend to interrupt me during phone calls at the most inopportune moments, too!). Will try to call a little later this morning I suppose....

Chatted with the Tasco....the retailer that I bought my range from last night.....says he sells lots of these ranges and only heard earlier in the day yesterday about problems such as mine. I talked to him about the challenges that I am having and that I am speaking with the distributor about getting a service call put together to ensure that its not the installation that is causing this....says he will help if I don't get satisfaction from Maroline .....I'll just have to go through the process.

Also chatted with Maroline in Quebec this morning (twice actually)....they also seem to be unaware ..... Dave.....I have pointed out to both Tasco and to Maroline that you are having problems....apparently Lynne Ashe no longer works at Maroline so if your buyback contact was her, I would try to connect Pina - apparently she has the Lynne Ashe file.......I can give you contact details if you would like.....

Slightly OT - do I need to put my email address up if I wanted someone from the forum to send me email or for me to send email to them? Not sure how you do this and what the etiquette is....

Back on OT.....my problem is very reproduceable - everytime I turn the oven on over 250 degrees I can get the buners to do weird things......

Bob....I hope your son recovers quickly and that you can also figure out what is happening..

For our friends in the US - Happy Thanksgiving!!!!

Marion K.

Marion, I'm onto someone new now. My 3rd person at Maroline. I finally heard from someone this morning after Wolf faxed the refund instructions on Monday. At first the guy from Maroline thought they were replacing the range again. I had to explain that they were not replacing, but refunding. He then gave me a lengthy and confusing explanation about how they now have to send the request to Mississauga for it to get done and also how they never refund people; Wolf does. The point? More confusion, miscommunication, and delays. I then called the guy back at Wolf asking him to FINALLY see this stupid thing through to the end. We'll see.

Dave....

I'm so sorry to hear that.....it should be more coordinated than that.

On my end - it seems that I have stirred up a bunch of things.

I received 2 phone calls from 2 different people at Maroline this morning. I also received a call from the store manager at Tasco who chatted with the tech rep from Maroline this morning about what we are all experiencing.

According to him, this issue does arise from time to time and has to do with the air/gas mixture and that they have a remedial kit to address this issue. Said that they were going to coordinate a repair visit with this remedial kit (hopefully more than the tape but my guess is that is what it will be....).

So we watch and wait.....I will keep you posted on what they find....

BTW - figured out the email question. Have to modify my profile somehow I think....

Marion K.

Marion--my bet is it will be the tape, too. The surface burner kit IS the tape.

I placed my calls this morning. We are going to wait to hear back from some people on Monday before scheduling anything (my choice). I don't have to cook tomorrow so no problem waiting for now.

BTW....every time I chat with Tasco or Maroline, I note for them that the are 6 or 8 of us that seem to be having the problem and that there are a number of folks including one in Canada that are getting their ranges bought back. Dave - I usually make a particular point about you because we are both dealing with the same retailer and distributor.....

Tasco said that they heard about this yesterday, Maroline says they know nothing other than the remedial kit that the tech support guy suggested.

I don't know.....I hope that they can fix it but expect that like all of you I will have to go through the 8 or 10 service calls.

Will keep you posted as I find out new stuff...

Marion K.

Marion - the service rep and Wolf tech did not want to put the "surface burner kit" on our range because they said "it was for older ranges, not the new one". Just passing it along - for whatever it is worth.

After cat mom's experience, I am very glad they did not put it on.

I really do hope they can get it right for you.

Dave - my "paperwork" is at the dealer and we are just waiting to either get the full refund from them or order something new. We were told Wolf did not refund directly that it came from whoever you paid (dealer).

It really is a big cluster, isn't it!

What the service person said to me was that they had one kit for a particular serial number break and a different one for a different serial number break. So apparently....it depends on what my s/n is and what they think the issue might be.....already had the set-up question - will have to deal with any riser comment that might come up.

Unfortunately, I think the only way to come to end of story here is to go through the multiple service calls and see if they can fix it or figure out a way to make it right (a buy back or whatever.....).

I just want my kitchen to be done and to be able to cook/bake - I do a lot of baking around Christmas and want to really enjoy the experience with the new kitchen and gear. This is just one more stress that I don't need (since the bath and the hardwood are not yet done and need to be done before Dec 15th....)

The service call is tomorrow - will post in the afternoon with results.

Marion K.

Good luck Marion! I keep thinking (hoping!) that eventually someone will crack the code as to what is causing the problem, and how to correct it.....

Marion, Please do post...I am curious because we got the "serial number" break info from the rep at Wolf but when service came, the didn't order anything. That is when they started on the island.
I hope they have something that will get you baking during the cooking season!
I am concerned too, Christmas Day is the one holiday I get to do at my house (we split the others w/family) and I'm getting nervous about it.

I orderd my Blue Star last night. All told, apples vs. apples, it comes out to $1200 less than the Wolf. Should have it in a couple weeks and in the meantime the installer that I'm working with through the local store that just got Blue Star will give me a replacement gas range to fill the gap between removal of the Wolf (whenever that may actually be) and the arrival of the Blue Star. How great is that? I had visions of grilling in the snow for a few weeks. Man, it's nice to finally be treated well.

The local store worked out with Blue Star that this same installer (also gas fitter, range guru) will be his exclusive servicer so I couldn't be happier about that. This is the same guy who installed my Wolf and came back and spent another 2 hours (free of charge) checking all my gas lines and trying to make an unworkable range work. I spoke to him this morning and he was glad to hear it was a defective range and not him.

I'm also going to have him bump my gas line to the range up from 1/2 to 3/4". Better to be safe than sorry and the BS is about 10K overall higher than the Wolf.

I seriously hope all of you get what you want out of this, because geez louise, after all of this, you deserve it.

Homestretch, homestretch, homestretch ...

I know you'll keep us posted about how the BS works out for you (I hope I won't NEED the feedback/info, if you know what I mean, but I'd still like to know how it all works out).

I hope it is everything you want it to be and that it gives you many, many years of happy and trouble-free(!!!) cooking. Can't wait to hear nothing but good things!

Keitel:

Could you please what is the local store name and "Guru". I may be interested since I am living in Mississauga, ON area as well.

By the way, anyone bought appliances from Caplan's and if so how is their service/price/reliablity, compare to Tasco, Goemans, Appliance Canada and Hudson&Bay.

Thanks.

samcuty, the store is AMG Appliances and the guru is Murray Young of Murray Young Enterprises. I'm the first BS order for the store (they don't even have one yet) and mine will be the first BS range Murray's seen, but he's been working on Garlands forever. Both of these businesses are in Guelph, which is a bit out of your neighbourhood, though.

FYI, you can buy the Blue Star for $300 less at Caplan's. I'd rather pay more here, save on the delivery and get the service I want, but good luck whatever you decide to do.

Dave,
What exciting news for you! The loaner is a great idea and it is great that is working out for you to get the Blue Star you want. I hope all is wonderful and can't wait to read great things!

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving and know that you are almost there!!

I am curious - how did you get the BS less than the Wolf? Here, it was more. Again, just wondering since we are getting the American. That too is great news for you! To be able to come out ahead after all you have been through.

Hope everyone has a great Turkey Day!

Plum, I should clarify. Range for range: I paid $4900 for the Wolf and I'm getting the BS for $3999. My $1200 savings takes into account delivery and warranty costs as well. That being said, according to another thread the BS is selling for around $3700 in Toronto. I think the reason it's less than the Wolf up here is because it's only been in Ontario since the summer and even then, it's got a very small presence. I suspect that if it takes off at all here, the prices will creep up rather steadily over the next couple of years to match those of Wolf and Viking. I'm happy to get on board now, if that's going to be the case.

I'm surprised that the BS is more than Wolf there (where is there again?). Having read through all the BS threads in the past I always got the impression that it was significantly less. Is its pricetag increasing with its notoriety and exposure?

If this experience offers me nothing else, I'll at least have an opportunity to give an indepth comparison of the 2 ranges based on thorough cooking experience.

Thanks for the Thanksgiving wishes - I'll keep them for next year as ours is already past. :-)

Hi there.....will post more later tonight....service guy in today.

Feel that it is the exhaust gases from the oven from the back. Used the metal tape and silicone to close up the gaps that he felt were the issue.

Unfortunately, I was not there, my DH was. The good news is that the half lit burner/dancing flame thing was immediately reproduceable. And apparently- after firing the oven at 500 degrees for some time after the fix, no more dancing flame etc.....

Will post later when I can get more details from my hubby....maybe maybe maybe.....

Marion K.

Dave - we are in Atlanta. And hope your day was great anyway....actually, I knew yours was past because of your experiences with the Wolf. Just in the well wishing mode and not using the noodle - but it still applies for next year too!

A year ago the BS here was about $200 more than the Wolf. I'm not sure about now, I know Wolf went up in Jan 08 and haven't priced BS locally lately. Internet pricing shows them up a little from last year too. I'm glad you are able to get on board before it goes up.

Marion - fingers crossed for you!

Sad news.....got home from an event tonight and tested myself......same issue - just a bit longer to show up....sigh....

I will have to call Maroline again tomorrow and get another service call going as I just don't think this is acceptable...

Not sure why it didn't seem to show up when my husband was looking at it with the tech .....but it's still there...

Will keep you posted on my progress....

Marion K.

Marion--I could have told you that would happen--ours did the same thing. Appeared to be better while they were here and then later on..... Not sure if this is related to the other problems or to the tape, or ?, but our right rear burner also takes much longer to light each time we use it, too.

If there are a lot more people out there with the same problem, I wish they'd weigh in so Wolf would recognize this as a real flaw and not just isolated incidents.

Hope springs eternal I guess....my DH was so perplexed when I tried it later in the evening. I know he wouldn't have let the tech go if he still saw the problem.....shoddy quality assurance is not part of his dna (he's now an acoustic guitar builder and quality assurance is everything in his world).

Oh well...I will get another service call going here later this morning....

This make me so sad......getting great compliments on how te range looks in my kitchen but.....

Marion K.

Marion, I'm sorry to hear that, but I suspected as much. My range worked on site after the tape 'n' caulking show but even later that same evening failed again.

Your patience is impressive.

Dave....only 1 service call so far although the fact that it is failing out of the box will limit the number of service calls that I will put up with....my range also is not at the never light a burner stage...just at the light only half the burner stage....my worry is that it appears that gas is still coming out of the unlit holes and that's just a safety hazard this safety mom can't handle.

We'll see how it goes....suspect that I might end up with a Bluestar after all.....Dave - do you think you could email me the name of the Bluestar distributor that you chatted with and his number. I would like to chat with him as well as I go through all of this....

Maroline called this morning to see how things went and said that they would call the service company again this morning for me.....We'll see how it goes.

Will keep you posted.....

Marion K.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. That's the giant sigh of relief as I watch the truck pull out of the driveway with the Wolf on the back. I've got the cheque in my hand, the temporary range is on its way, and my Bluestar's ordered.

Could it be that things may actually, eventually work out?

Best of luck to you Dave!

This may be of interest: My AG Wolf has had intermittant "runaway igniter" problems since day one, but I could never get it to act up when a service tech was at my house. Finally it got so bad that I was sure I could demonstrate the problem, so I called Wolf directly and they requested the service call. The tech person at Wolf said he would talk to the service company before they came out to tell him things to look for. According to the tech who came to my house, he had no prior instructions. Fortunately, as soon as he turned on a burner (we hadn't even turned on the oven yet) the igniters started sparking and wouldn't stop until he unplugged the stove. This happened every time he lit a burner. I was overjoyed. He did a lot of disassembly, spent over an hour trying different things, all to no avail. Finally he was able to turn on a burner (one time) and the igniters stopped clicking on ignition. He started packing up his tools, so I asked him if he thought he had fixed the problem after only one successful burner-lighting. He said he was so puzzled by the problem he couldn't say it was fixed, but he had finally replaced the "module" and the effect seemed pretty dramatic. That was Wednesday morning. My wife and daughters cooked all day Wednesday and Thursday on the stove, with only one hiccup in all that time. The oven and burners were in use most of that time. The one time the igniters behaved inappropriately, I think it was because the slot in the inner ring wasn't lined up with the igniter on the burner that was lit. It hasn't happened since. I have the feeling the module is a fairly expensive part, which would explain why no one ever tried it before and he only used it as a last resort. Maybe he always brings one along on service calls, or maybe he was more experienced with this problem than he let on. Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know about this, in case it adds to knowledge of the problem. The module is blue, and about twice the size of a cigarette pack. Gary

Gary--what year is your range? Also, where is this module located on the range and is that what the part is actually called?

I don't know the year of manufacture, but I've had it for a couple of years. Do you think this is relevant to the problem? I wasn't watching when the module was replaced, so I can't really tell you where it is. I know it's an electronic control, and the repairman called it the module, but you may be able to find a better name for it with a little research. Good luck, Gary

Gary - thanks for posting. Interesting that yours isn't a 2007 range like the others. Glad they could get you working by Thanksgiving.

Dave - I know you must feel so much better with the Wolf gone. Hope it all goes well from here on.

I am looking forward to mine leaving too. Today, couldn't get the oven to preheat at all while the back right burner was on simmer. Finally turned the burner off and then the oven reached the temp it needed??? First time for that one!

Either way, I'm looking forward to moving on too!

Catmom-hope you will have some progress next week - Marion you too!

Thanks Gary. You seem to be the only person with a pre-2007 model posting with burner issues.

plum--I can't believe the problems keep on escalating. I am going to let them know about these new issues/posts when I speak with them next week. This is just bizarre.

I don't understand how nothing, or very few complaints about the Wolf AG came up while I was searching for a new range, and in the last few months since I've had one--boom, this thread and the previous one citing burner issues, and I'm one of the lucky ones with problems, too!

This is unconnected to Wolf, but an interesting observation. Thanksgiving day, I used the oven in my 30 year old Vulcan for the first time while using the burners. I have a 27" wall oven that I usually use instead of heating up the behemoth and uninsulated 36" oven in the range. When the oven was preheating (which takes forever, as you may be able to imagine), I could no longer use the burner that I use 90% of the time--just hissing gas, no flame even though the pilot ws lit. I moved over a burner, and was not able to simmer. I have standing pilots, so there was no clicking, but because I was familiar with this thread, I thought I'd post the odd experience. I just wonder if some of these issues are more common in all gas ranges and if the posts have made people notice them more (not that it makes it acceptable). From a standpoint of scientific curiosity, it would be interesting to have resolution/explanation. I have been looking at Bluestar for replacing the 60" monster in the spring. I'm guessing it's a foreign problem with them?

My next service call is Tuesday....The general manager for the service company specifically asked for me to be home when the call was done (DH was home for the last one...)....I kind of have the impression that they think that I am being difficult as opposed to recognizing that there is something wrong....funny...because all I did was turn on the oven/burners about 4 -5 hours after the service call....

We'll see.....not really holding my breath on this anymore....

Will post after the service call on Tuesday....

Marion K.

Marion - I got that "feeling" too from our service company....I even got attitude when he was here. That all went away with the video that I sent them.

Funny how wanting to use your range the way it was intended gets everyone up in arms when it doesn't work.

Histokitch - that is strange - be careful with that gas hissing! Can you see the Blue Star live and test it to see if it does the burner/oven thing OK? As for other gas ranges - I have cooked on gas only for about 20 years. Unless it is symptom of higher btu ranges, I've never had this problem. But maybe it is a "pro" range issue - but...then again, everyone that has dealt w/me on the issues says they have never had an issue like this. Who knows!

First, so sorry for all the Wolf owners having an issue. It is just so uncharacteristic of Wolf. I just cannot believe the tape and caulk thing. I am sure Wolf will find and correct the issue, its just a shame you guys have had to go through such a frustrating ordeal.

One thing I never considered but a revelation was dropped on me by the gas company service rep when they came out to turn on my gas and checked everything out in our new house. In passing he made the comment "I wonder if the meter we put in is big enough for this house." I asked if he was kidding and he said that given 2 50 gallon HW heaters, 2 large furnaces, a gas log fireplace and a my 60 inch BS, if it is not over the limit it is right at it. I will be watching and testing when everything is running at the same time!

Anybody know how to calculate peak gas flow/usage of these things and how to determine if the meter/service is large enough?

plum, it's funny you mention this being a "pro" range problem. Last night I used the 15 year old Maytag "loaner" I've got right now (it might be worth $100 IF the right buyer came along) and for the first time in 6 months I was able to use the burners and the oven without a second thought or a hitch.

Never had this issue with my 9 year old Maytag AG - we bought it new with our house 9 years ago and I can tell you that I often used my burners while having the oven on...never had a second thought....

But now that I am having this issue with my Wolf, I am thinking that I will delay putting the old range on Craigslist in case we can't figure out what is going on with the Wolf and I am waiting for a different range....

Marion K.