I can replicate your problem with Safari 5.0.2. on a Mac running Snow Leopard 10.6.4. GardenWeb has been having some problems as of late, so I'm sure that has something to do with it. It's just a bug in their code.

I primary use Firefox and haven't experienced the problem with that browser. You might want to think about switching. I think Firefox is a much better browser anyway. :-)

I used to use Firefox, but my version started getting buggy. I tried to find a clean and well reviewed update a year and a half ago and at that time, everyone was complaining about the latest update of Firefox and no technical support, so I started using Safari and I like the 'Top Sites' function better than the bookmarks that Firefox used. What has been your experience with Firefox updates and tech support? What version of Firefox are you using? I still have version 3.0.8. I do miss the skins.

I guess I don't understand enough about websites to understand how a bug in their code can result in automatic download by clicking on a link. I find it disconcerting. I thought my browser had programming that wouldn't allow files to download like that, for one thing. For a second, it seems like it had to be some mistake on someone's part, assuming it's not intentional, someone evidently could do it intentionally, which is a sobering thought. I would have thought there were safeguards in place to prevent that from happening. Not your common mistake for a website, is it? I've been on the internet for ...oh, at least 12 years or more and I have never had a file downloaded from clicking on a website link.

I'm using Firefox 3.6.1 and haven't had any problems with it. Never needed any support. Can't help with skins, don't use them.

Coding a website isn't the easiest task in the world and one little mistake can cause problems. This is complicated by a bunch of different browsers that sometimes interpret code differently. Please remember not everything that happens on the Internet is the result of some miscreant trying to attack your computer and infect it with a virus that steals your personal information. Computers are programmed by human beings that sometimes make mistakes.

You downloaded file, so what? Only YOU can click on the file to open it. That's the safeguard. The vast majority of viruses and other malware would go away if people were just a bit more responsible when surfing and took some time to educate themselves as to how the Internet actually works.

With all due respect, if you're dissatisfied with Garden Web write the administrators a note demanding a refund.

OK, Mike, thanks so much for the scolding.

So you use Firefox with no problem, you don't need tech support, you understand how programmers write code and you think everyone should. Swell.

You don't think anyone should be concerned about a website's ability to download a file onto your computer without your permission, but instead we should all just ignore them, don't open them and don't complain, evidently. Especially if we're complaining about Gardenweb.

Thanks for the warm welcome to the forum.

Websites, by virtue of how the Internet and browsers work, "download" lots of files to your computer with every new page. Check your browser's cache if you don't believe me.

I haven't found anything that specifically references Safari 5 but in the past Apple has considered automatic downloads a "feature".

I would be very worried if with out any instruction on my part any website would start downloading a FILE to my pc. That is definitely a reason for concern, it is how all of the recent DRIVE BY infections happen and they happen due to poorly written code on a website that allows a hacker to come along and insert things like an auto loading infection, these new infections are set up so that you do not need to click a button saying install it does it by click jacking, creating code that underlies a regular button on a page you would click even a close button and rather than doing the task you thought was going to happen instead it has click jacked that button to be an install button instead.

We are seeing many many regular legit websites with this type of activity happening, most are unaware that this has been done to their website and are very thankful and correct it asap when notified.

So you were indeed correct to express concern and I would continue to express it to the website until it is fixed.
It may not have been an infection this time but it might be next time and I would sure want to know just what that file was that I did not ask for.
I praise those that are paying attention when surfing and catch things like that happening and make the effort to ask why!

ravencajun, thanks for that encouragement. I did open the file that downloaded. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have. It was a 36kb file titled 'forums' and it appears to be what I suspect is java-script and it reads like the written instructions for how the forum page is supposed to be set up.

I have continued to email GW and have gotten no further response.

I didn't realize that hackers could use the websites code to infect you. Thanks very much for that information.

some good info can be found by googling drive by infection and click jacking here are a few to get an idea
Drive-by download

Drive-by infections

Clickjacking

Click Jacking - A VERY Real Threat

I would definitely not open any file I had not specifically asked for, doing so could in fact activate and install something nasty.
With in the security community there are a few sites and blogs that try to keep track of some of these type problems, this one for example will list sites with bad links and misdirect infections.

Here is a link that might be useful: blog

Thanks very much ravencajun, I am going to check out all those sites! I will also alert my friends to this new threat. I am going to delete all the files that were downloaded onto my desktop and empty the trash and keep emailing GW until they give me some indication that the problem is resolved.

I appreciate your help. :-)

Mike, if you are still reading this thread, I just want to back up a little. I don’t know if you were having a bad day or something I said was some kind of pet peeve of yours or not, but I’m over it. I just want to point out, that someone who comes to a forum titled ‘computer help’, expects that the reason it exists is that some people with more expertise, want to help those with less. They don’t expect to be told they should know more than they do and not have to ask the question.

As for Gardenweb, I’ve been visiting Gardenweb for over 10 years, so I think I’ve earned the right to complain. I’ve suffered through many difficulties on the site over the years and although they aren’t charging money to visitors, they do receive money and I suspect a more than fair amount of it to run their website and should be expected to be able to keep it running properly.

prairiemoon2 please do feel free to come on back any time you need some help, if you would just run through a few other threads here you will see the norm is that you do get helpful folks trying to provide helpful info.

On my bad days, which are more and more these days, when the pain starts affecting my attitude I walk away from the pc, don't want it to come out in my words or tone. Guess we all have our bad days.

Thanks ravencajun, I did see other helpful posts on the forum and noticed that Mike had given helpful advice on a number of them. :-) It really is so true that sometimes we respond because of something that is effecting us, or sometimes it's some hot button that we are sensitive to. We've all been there.

Sorry to hear that you are experiencing pain on a regular basis. That has to be tough. Too bad they don't have a 'pain forum' here. [g] I am sure you've tried everything. Does anything help? Hope you have more better days than you expect. Thanks again.

And sometimes a member may have a position, slant or presentation on a topic, approach or discussion which may not be popular with some.

I know my "self-help first" stance isn't always popular as some members just want the answers without the work behind them. In general, I just can't bring myself to blindly assist others when they make no effort to help themselves. If they plainly don't understand what they are dealing with, or have personally attempted to resolve or search a concern without success I am gladly prepared to help.

This position isn't short, rude or narrow-minded, nor is it intended to be. That wouldn't be my style.

DA

FWIW...using iMac and Safari I, too, was denied access to this forum and received the apparently meaningless download instead. Switched over to Firefox for a few days. Now problem seems to be resolved on Safari.

Notified administrators. Whether on their end or mine, problem gone.

Stuff happens.

Computer help, Helpers information guide.

1 "You are the voice of authority. Your words can wound.

2 Nobody is born knowing this stuff.
If it's not obvious to them, it's not obvious.

3 By the time they ask you for help, they've probably tried
several things. As a result, their computer might be in a
strange state. This is natural.

4 Find out what they're really trying to do. Is there another way to go about it?

5 A computer is a means to an end. The person you're helping probably cares mostly about the end. This is reasonable.

6 Never do something for someone that they are capable of doing for themselves.

7 Knowledge lives in communities, not individuals. A computer user who's part of a community of computer users will have an easier time than one who isn't.

8 Explain your thinking. Don't make it mysterious. If
something is true, show them how they can see it's true. When you don't know, say "I don't know". When you're guessing, say "let's try ... because ...". Resist the temptation to appear all-knowing. Help them learn to think the problem through."

And you're entitled to take that position DA. No one is trying to twist anyone's arm into helping them. You can choose to help who you want to help and then just ignore a person's request for help if there's something about it that doesn't sit right with you. I'd rather post and get no response then to have someone give me a hard time because THEY think I should know better.

If you have 'pet peeves' about people who ask for help and don't help themselves, maybe someone on the forum would consider writing a FAQ including a statement addressing what it is you think people should do on their own before asking questions here and you can direct newcomers to that and save a lot of individual misunderstandings.

My feeling on using this forum was for people to answer if they already know the solution without having to do anything other than type what they know.
I never mean to have someone have to look up or search for me but many a time I have searched with no good results.
There are some very special people on here who do go out of their way to search and post some very valuable info for which is very much appreciated and them having a great feeling with enjoyment in doing so.

PM2,

I didn't use the words pet peeve, you did. I have a personal position which has been the same since I arrived at the forum in 1998, and it happens to be the position I carry in all facets of my life.

FAQs are of course a wonderful tool, if their used. On the banner of the homepage there is an instruction that reads,

"Before posting a question, please check the FAQ and do a search to make sure it hasn't already been answered".

How many times do we see a repeat question? Like anything else members have to use the asset for it to be useful.

Z,

I understand all of your guide, and agree with many. #6 is what I refer to here. By doing on one's own a thought process is created, confirmed and grows. Who has to think, research or rationalize when someone else is giving you the answer?

Urlee,

As far as I am concerned you are a great member here. I for one appreciate your questions knowing that you have made an effort. What's really helps is you keep us educated as to what you have already attempted. This keeps other members from strolling down the same dead end when trying to help.

I think we have been jumping back and forth between specifics of my particular post and questions posted in general. I don't have enough experience in this computer forum to really add anything to any general discussion beyond my own personal, very minor experiences, so I will go back to the specifics of my post and my own situation.

In the past, when I was a Windows PC user, I was an intermittent visitor to a number of computer forums, not this one very often, because of low traffic here, but all the forums had very friendly people who were generous with their time and expertise and seemed happy to help. Since switching to an Apple computer, I have barely stepped foot in a computer forum. I have not needed to. My laptop just works 90% of the time and when it doesn't, I have a 3 yr tech support policy in place. Something I've had with every computer I've ever had since I first started getting on the computer in 1995. It has been a big relief, because maintaining a computer and straightening out technical problems even with help was a very frustrating task that I never enjoyed.

It always felt like a 'big black hole' of wasted time when some issue would present itself. Even with an 'expert' to help figure it out, you'd never know how many hours you'd have to take away from whatever task you were trying to do, to stop and figure out why the computer wasn't responding right, 'again'. Or how many days your computer would not be working. Even with a tech support policy, I might call and get the wrong information and no fix with two techs, and have to call back again and then a third tech might know just what the problem was and fixed it in about 10 minutes. So, even though I was less technically literate, it seemed like even among the technically literate, there were a lot of people who seemed as confused as I was.

I always tried to understand what I needed to know. Always tried to find out what I could do using the computer that would be preventative and avoid problems. It didn’t seem to matter, tech problems always seemed to present themselves regardless.

So again, I can’t even express how relieved I’ve been not to have that experience with my computer any more. My husband has a windows based computer with Vista on it and I don’t even want to touch it.

Which brings me to my thread that seems to have triggered this discussion. I wasn’t even asking for help with a problem with my computer. I had already been working with my own situation for 3 days and taken steps to resolve it not only with GW but with my own Apple tech support. I was not satisfied with the responses or information that I was getting from either about whether this ‘downloaded file’ was a problem or not. That was why I posted here. And from the information that ravencajun offered, it would seem that I had reason to remain concerned about the ‘possibility’ that it could be a problem and one I wanted to take steps to avoid in the future. Even if the file that was downloaded onto my computer was not a problem, it might have been.

So, what was it about my thread that has caused a negative response? What did I do or say that was wrong? I’m still here defending my thread, why? Have I even done any of the things that some of you are expressing you have a problem with? I was very appreciative for the help ravencajun gave me and I even tried to smooth over my initial response to Mike, even though I still think he was wrong in both content and attitude in his response to me, I was more than willing to give him a break and overlook it. At this point, I am at a loss to understand how what seemed like a simple question has resulted in my feeling like I have to defend myself for asking it and now defending all people who come to forums and ask questions. That doesn't seem right to me.

I personally speaking only for myself am very sorry you have those feelings, as a helper on many forums it is never ever the goal to alienate a person seeking assistance. As zep said in his post by the time a person actually comes to ask for help they are feeling uncertain about themselves and the situation that they are encountering and the last thing a helper wants to do is make them feel belittled or ashamed or feel that they do not want to go through that again, and not ask for help.
Asking for help is often a big step for some people, I know this because I was there at one point and it was very hard for me to make that move and say I need help. It was because of wonderful helpers on forums that I was able to learn and be where I am today.
My goal now is to pay it forward daily. The more we all learn the better off everyone is. Knowledge is power. Many times knowing how to do a search is the key and learning even that technique is something that takes time and in some cases a little help and guidance can go a long way. When I suggest someone do a search I do not like to say go to google, I prefer to say try doing a search like this on google and direct them what search terms to use and should they use quotes for specific terms etc.it may seem second nature to us but not for everyone, even that is learned.

I too love it when a person shows they are pro active and want to try to figure things out themselves, but for those that I know are frustrated to the point they are banging their head against a wall I feel I can step and in and provide some helpful links, I can do some of the searching for them and step them on to the path, it is up to them to follow it. It takes me only a few seconds to look up something that may take someone else much longer to get to, why, because I have done it so many times, not that I am smarter, and if I can help someone understand where to start on that search path next time maybe they will be the one paying it forward and leading the next person.
That is the ultimate goal, to educate, guide, assist and hope that pattern becomes their goal too.

Prairiemoon I thought your original question was precise and to the point you simply wanted to know if others had experienced the problem and if it was something to be concerned about.

PM2,

I am so glad you recognize this as a discussion. It is not an argument or a P---ing contest. This forum has been open to discussion for as long as I have been here.

My position is just that my position. I haven't nor do I wish to draw a line in the sand or orate from a soapbox. I know there are members who agree with me, and I have always had those who disagree, but I do not wish for members to take sides as it is unwarranted.

I guess the prime example of why I continue to carry the banner of my position is a post on a thread here a couple of years ago. The member wrote something like, "Why should I waste my time researching on Google when I can just come here and have you answer it".

I've just reviewed the thread again. I can't and wouldn't speak for Mikie. My thought though is he took you out behind the Internet woodshed for opening an unknown file. This is something you admitted you shouldn't have done. You then became shall we say uncomfortable. I then expanded your thought and included an example.

My knowledge is limited to what I know. I have no deep seeded desire to post on every thread. I do not wish to plagiarize content from a website by presenting it as my own knowledge as I at times do see here. I do not do the easy work of others. I do pick and chose where I answer. Plus, I truly do enjoy it when a newbie jumps in and answers or contributes to a thread.

DA

"Since switching to an Apple computer, I have barely stepped foot in a computer forum. I have not needed to."

My experience, also, after 4 1/2 years.

I'm thinking the auto-download anomaly was on GW's end. Gone now. I've been accessing via iMac/Safari all day with no issues.

DA, My frustration with Mike’s response was not about him pointing out that opening the file was the wrong thing to do. I appreciated the reminder. What I found frustrating was.....

I was justifiably worried and his post was minimizing every concern that I had.

When he indirectly suggested I needed to b more responsible and know how the internet works, I thought he was talking about understanding code and I didn’t see how he expected the average person to know that.

And worst of all, he basically took sides with Gardenweb over me.

I have been growing increasingly more frustrated with the way in which Gardenweb maintains the website which has caused me countless instances of inconvenience since iVillage took over the site and makes using the site frustrating. It used to be my favorite site and it’s taken a lot of the fun out of it. I just didn’t think it was fair, that they are making the mistakes and not being responsible. I am the one being inconvenienced but I’m the one that Mike scolds.

DA....other than the point about reviewing the thread, I find your response difficult to understand, not sure what you are referring to or if you are addressing some of your remarks to me personally or are speaking in general terms. I’m sorry I can’t follow what you are saying better, but rather than risk further misunderstanding, I’m going to call it a day.

Thanks to ravencajun, for all your help and for understanding. You gave me the information that I was looking for.

Thanks to urlee, whose attitude about not expecting people to do anything other than type what they know, I share.

Thanks to zep516, for a great effort in presenting some guidelines that attempts to understand where the person asking for help from the forums is coming from.

Asolo....glad you are still having a good experience with Apple after 4 1/2 years. That’s encouraging.

Sorry to have taken up so much time on the forum today. I was hoping that responding to the post honestly might offer understanding of the other side of things. If it was not helpful, sorry, I gave it my best shot.

In finality,

I didn't see anyone taking sides on anything, nor was I directing anything personally towards you. And since you appear to be driving in the right lane, and I am operating in the left one enough has been said. At least the highway is going in the same direction.

DA

DA, I'm not surprised that you don't see what I see. It is tedious to discuss in detail a misunderstanding like this and we agree, enough has been said.

I just want to leave one suggestion for anyone on this forum who is trying to help others with their technical problems. I've had an unhappy experience on this forum with ONE visit. I know I am not the only one who has. It's been unpleasant enough that I know I would go somewhere else to ask a question the next time I have one.

Newcomers with not enough knowledge about how the internet works, or how a computer works are not the only people here that really need to be googling. IT personnel are well know for knowing how to talk to computers better than they talk to people. I've experienced that first hand in this thread. And a quick google turns up links to people who hire IT personnel for a living who are encouraging applicants to increase their communications and people skills.

Here, I've done the work for you, just this one time....

Here is a link that might be useful: The 7 Most Important Communication Skills an IT Leader Should Have

prairiemoon2, I have been following this thread the last couple of days and I've come to the conclussion that you have turned this tread into a personal attack with your constant "come backs" everytime someone has tried to explain what they were trying to say to you. You started out with a concern and other then ravencajun you have dismissed everyone elses comments and when they say something about it you come back with a "lengthy" post that just rambles on. Enough is enough........just let it go!

This is a terrific forum with so many wonderful people who volunteer their time and everyone of them are very knowledgeable. Over the years I have seen threads like this cause people to leave and not come back. People need to learn to ignore posts they feel are offending them and just accept the help being offered.

I haven’t personally attacked anyone. Nor has anyone personally attacked me.

If you are going to criticize me at least do it fairly. I was finished with this thread a third of the way down, as I thanked ravencajun and tried to smooth over things with Mike. It was damccoy who entered into the discussion to keep it going. But you prefer I just ignore what I don’t agree with and not respond? And I was finished with the thread with my last post, but you chose to keep it going.

I didn’t dismiss anyone’s comments. I actually thanked people individually for their comments.

Yes, my posts have been lengthy, but what is wrong with lengthy? To characterize them as ‘rambling’ is not only inaccurate but disrespectful and shows a disinterest in trying to understand.

Your bias is naturally toward those you know in the forum, but it does seem to get in the way of you’re willingness to be objective.

I don’t know about other threads that have been problems in the past and I don’t presume to know why people leave and don’t come back, but I think it is a mistake to expect people to feel offended and say nothing.

And to be unwilling to hear criticism of the forum or it’s members I think is a mistake too. Other people have criticisms to make but keep it to themselves after having the same experience I’ve had. I know because I’ve been emailed back channel. How does that help anyone?

I’m sure that there are lots of knowledgeable people here and they give lots of time. I don’t question their generosity or their expertise, but none of us are perfect. Criticism and discussion can be a good thing, but that’s your choice to discourage it and ignore it.

I have been following this thread but purposely stayed out of it. However, I now feel compelled to speak my mind. Could it possibly be, prairiemoon2, that you feel it necessary to always have the last word?

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!