Oh Boy. I think your mother and mine must be related.

Actually, mine has NPD, which may (or may not) sound familiar to you. She has plenty of money so could easily help herself, but prefers that others ''volunteer'' their services so she can feel important. Because you see...it's all about her!

I no longer rush to aid.

Here is a link that might be useful: Narcissistic Personalty Disorder

Well, yes and no. My mother needed in home care, but she needed it. She had Alzheimers and a few months after being diagnosed with that, she was diagnosed with lung cancer. This was 8 to 9 years ago. She had to be hospitalized because she went for a spell without taking her medications without us realizing it. That and other things she'd do or forget to do told us she needed extra care. The hospital social worker hooked us up with some agencies, and we started interviewing home health care givers while she was still in the hospital. However, medicare did not pay for the caregiver. At first, the caregiver stayed with her days, fixed her 3 meals a day, drove her places, and did light house keeping - basically keeping the kitchen clean. She did not do baths or anything like that, but helped to make sure she was safe and sound and fed and took her medicine. As Mom's condition worsened, I moved in with her, and took care of her in the evening, but keeping the caregiver for days while I was at work. Once she was diagnosed with lung cancer, we made the decision to put her under hospice care, and medicare did pay for that. With that, a nurse came to check on her once a week, plus was on call for any emergencies. Equipment was paid for by medicare, so her oxygen and breathing treatments were covered. A volunteer was available to help with bathing, or with sitting with her if we needed. All kinds of services were available through Hospice, with medicare covering the bill.

Your situation sounds quite a bit different. I don't know how to advise you on dealing with a mother that want visitors to clean her house for her. Actually, my mother did recruit visitors to do things for her, especially men, but I doubt she'd have them vacuum or mop - just move heavy things for her, or reach high things down, or look at something that wasn't working, because men are for fixing things. I don't suppose you've told her how you feel? I'm guessing it wouldn't do any good, but it's a thought. My heart goes out to you. I wish I could give better advice.

Sally

The problem is not your mother....it's you.
YOU are feeling guilty because you can't do all the things she needs.
Let it go. If she can't do it and can't find volunteers, she will either have to hire it done or leave it undone.
If she can afford someone to clean and do chores, then you don;'t need to feel like you have to provide the labor.
Medicare won't pay for home maker aids or another rehab facility unless the Dr. says it's medically necessary.
It sounds like she has lots of neighbors and friends who willingly look after her....it really shouldn't be your problem.
Linda C

Based on your description, it's not senility. Unless she became senile when she was a young woman. It's just who she is.

You can't control or change your mother. You can only control or change (if you choose) your own responses to the situation.

Practice saying "No." I especially would not be doing unsafe tasks like cleaning a chandelier over a bathtub. What if you fell and injured yourself? That would hardly improve the situation. It's fine to say, "Mother, you need to hire someone to do that." If she fusses, let her. Who cares if she has a dusty chandelier?

Carol

She's always been like this.

Then I would suggest that straight out of knee surgury isn't the time to be addressing issues with her personality or lifestyle. You need to worry about keeping her off her butt so that she rehabs her knee properly. My mom had a knee replaced last year at the age of 78 and although she's a very physically active woman and was determined to do anything it took, recovery was not easy.

So I say focus on that for now. Then, when she's better, focus on the other problems. Personally I think that if someone is calling you elderly at the young age of 72, there are definitely issues to address!

...actually on second thought maybe it is a perfect time to address getting a housekeeper. Does she realize how much she relies on other people to help her? Maybe she thinks of herself as doing everything, even though in reality she asks you and others to do everything? If so, now is a good time to suggest that while she's recovering she gets a housekeeper "temporarily."

I would hate it if I had a chandelier just where I loved seeing it and someone told me to take it down or get rid of it because I couldnt clean it anymore.

Out of your whole post, that bothers me.

T- first, do not diagnose your mother over the internet with this "NPD". No one here is qualified to do that.

Accept that you are both differant people with differant styles and move on. It could be that Mom is asking for some attention, feeling lonely and is not sure how to ask for it up front. And at 72, don't ask her to move or reduce her possenions, she loves them. Work with her, work with her, work with her to make her comfortable.

One of my dearest freinds is 75, not helpless at all, a wonderful cook, but as she said "I am just tired of doing it". Try and see it from her perspective.

I am linkiung this post to the Care Givers forum, and I suggest you read a bunch of the posts there, because many apply to your situation, and many others will show you the other side.

First of all, no one can take advantage of you without your permission. I think I read that in Dear Abby about 50 years ago, and it holds true now, too. Mother has demanded that you be her enabler, and unless you change your behavior, she will never change hers.

Your mother doesn't sound "elderly" to me, and certainly no signs of dementia as you described. (Check the thread about dementia) And as long as she gets her way, she has no reason to change.

If I were in your shoes, I'd say, gee, mom, sorry, but I can't help you with that. Make your visits purposeful, such as a doctor's appointment, and don't be afraid to get there on time (not before) and leave as soon as you are finished. You have your own life, and it's okay to limit your exposure to her.

She simply does not sound like she needs any home health care, once she's through with rehab after surgery. She may need a maid, but that's not covered by anything, certainly not for a person with any assets at all.

Good luck. I think the ball is entirely in your court!

But visit here or the other forum and vent all you want. We're good at listening. ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Care Givers

Thank sushipup, and all. I called around about cleaning services in her area last week, so I am armed with that info.

Sushi, you are right that the ball is in my court. But, I can't just say tough sh!!t and walk away. I'd like to be able to point her towards a service of some sort. I just don't quite know where to look for it or if that stuff even really exists. You know how you see in movies where the person has a caregiver of some sort? Sometimes they live in/sometimes not, etc. I've seen adds in the paper where I live looking for a care giver. And I've seen adds for home health care, but that's not quite the right fit, either.

Anyway, thanks for the link to the care givers forum. Hopefully I can find that kind of info over there.

I didn't mean to advocate an NPD diagnosis for your mother; only to share with you that there are others in a similar situation. I envy those who have normal relationships with their mothers, and truly don't believe anyone can understand what that's like unless they've walked in your shoes (or mine).

You mother is trying to take care of herself the only way she knows how; the way that's worked for her all this time. When that stops working for her, she'll have to go another direction. Since it's not working for you any longer, you also should go a different way. My revelation this last year is that I need to take care of myself first. If there isn't any energy left for my mother, she'll draw it from somewhere else. (That has been proven time and time again. I only needed to recognize it.) I am much happier now never answering my phone when I know it's her, as I don't need to hear about her preoccupation with death and dying, how much medication she's taking how many times a day, and when her next doctor's appointment is. If it's truly important, she'll leave a message and I'll call her back. When it was a big enough deal to her to throw a fit about her lack of attention, I suggested she start packing and move to the town my sister lived in, if she didn't want the independent life she'd set up for herself. I am now the only one who decides how much of my energy she gets, and very self-protective. I've reduced a major amount of stress on myself, and guess what? The last time she was in the hospital, someone else showed up. It didn't have to be me! (You see, I am no longer available.)

Good luck to you. I know it often takes something major to get to the point when you no longer choose to enable that behavior. For your own sake, I hope you can work through it soon. I haven't walked in your shoes, but will say they look a lot like mine!

...it sounds like your mom could use an Assisted Living situation. It may be that you could start a tour of the facilities in her area to plant the seed of ''assistance'' from someone other than you.

Sometimes the private companies that operate residential care facilities also can provide in-home workers. We have that in my area. That may be appropriate while her knee is still healing. But if she gets back to the level of functioning that you describe, where she can get herself out to work at the church, etc, she won't need that support, she'll just need someone to clean.
Anyway, for the moment, I suggest calling the residential homes in her area, and asking if it's possible to hire some in-home caregivers during her convalescence. In our area, they do things like driving people to grocery stores , or going for them, very light cleaning, doing laundry, even putting up the Christmas decorations.

Sorry to hear it. I have fought the fight of getting a live-in caregiver. My mother protested heartily, it was for my dad. She was falling apart, but still resisted. Then last January my dad had an emergency hospitalization for a small stroke. It was apparent and her doctor INSISTED that she have a helper/caregiver at home. Of course it took no time before mom was happy to have someone. It did take a few people before mom bonded with one, but it worked and they really cared for each other. In Sept my dad was hospitalized again. My mother had resisted all meds for my father's dementia and it became worse. He was combative, but the day came when his hallucinations and lack of rational thought hospitalized him again. At that point we moved him to skilled nursing and finally after regulating the meds, we have him placed in a board & care facility.

Mom lost her partner of 60 years and the caregiver whom she had depended upon for companionship. It was hard. Now she lives alone, and while she's not like your mother, she's overwhelmed by the household maintenance and minutiae. I think we'll be moving her out in the next year. She's resistant, but it would probably be best.

The reason I've shared my story is because I didn't quite realize what was going on when my father went downhill. He made odd comments occasionally, let his long term care insurance lapse and convinced us (DH & I) that he had the means to take care of it. He decision making was impaired. Do some research, it does sound like your mother isn't thinking clearly, it can be an early sign. Why she'd want you up on a ladder in a clearly dangerous situation just isn't rational. Please say NO but offer to find her a cleaning service.

Enlist her physician as your ally in getting care in the home, trust me, she'll come to depend upon them. I used a licensed agency with my parents once I had 24 hr care, they carried worker's comp insurance and I was afraid that Dad might unintentionally hurt someone- either by lifting him, or if he became combative. Nothing happened, but they were protected just in case.

Medicare will NOT pay for a live-in caregiver. They will send in home healthcare to take care of her for a few hours for bathing or cooking chores, maybe light housekeeping. Dad has had wound care and physical therapy at home off and on, he's had blood drawn etc, but no one to live in at all.
Medicare pays for a facility for 20 days after hospitalization (I think that's the number), after that her co-insurance will kick in for up to 80 days. Beyond that, you're on your own.
Good luck, she sounds like a challenge, my parents are in their mid 80's, so they're more likely to be challenged with dementia than yours is. Nevertheless, it's time to say NO and strategize with her physician to get a social worker and caregiving in place.

No worries Claire. I took it in the spirit it was meant. There are a lot of similarities there.

Thanks again, everyone. Thanks cloudy and compumom. That gives me a place to start.

I have to agree with Linda and Carol. It's not senility in the leasst; it's plain old ability to get other people to cater to her. If she's always been like that, she's got no reason to change now.

Why would she want to pay for what she can get for free? As long as you are willing to get on a ladder to clean her chandelier and other people are willing to do other things for her, she has no reason to enlist strangers and pay them for their work. Come on! She knows how to look for these services as well as you do -- maybe better since she probably has friend her own age who use similar services.

You're not describing someone who is mentally and financially incapable of handling her own affairs. She's lucky you're her daughter and not me because I most certainly would tell her TS.

One thing I've learned from dealing with the MIL's situation for the last few years is that you can't change the behavior of someone who doesn't want to change. You can only change how you deal with them.

I just know that in a few more years my children will be having a similar conversation about me. ;) I've already got the difficult part nailed!

I'm sorry you're having these problems. Our mothers can yank our chains in lots of ways. At least she is financially sound, so count your blessings for that. She will definitely be needing some help when she comes home from the hospital.

Start with your hospital social worker and see if she is eligible for subsidized help. They can also connect you with the proper agencies.

I do agree that you have to stop catering to her. It's hard to say no, I'm sure.

My mom is 92 and she is almost too independent. I wish she would let me do more for her. I can't even go into all of it here. It's one of those "you gotta be there" situations.

Good luck to you.

Claire, sorry, no offense intended. There is no such thing as a normal relationship with a Mother. Each is unique. And all will drive you to drink or up a tree, or both.

Mine made me nuts, we fought, we hugged, we argued some more. Then she died on me and I miss her like hell. I wish we could fight some more.

T-take a very deep breathe, imagine yourself in her shoes while in yours. Then think about never being able to talk to her again. Trust me, it sucks.

You are 3 hours away and that may be a bit of the trouble. Do what you can, breathe deeply, and savor your time.

And accept that role reversal is in gear.

I agree with many of the Threads ( even LindaC's )
Went thru this a few times myself. The last was my mother.
She didn't have a too easy life, taking care of others who fell ill.
After my Father passed, she was sort of independent and got a little demanding.

That's OK , because she did for me thru the years, when I was younger.
But I always made my own way and tried not to depend on anyone.

When she was up in age and needed more help, I built an addition to my home,
to move her in with me, because she was almost 2 hours away.

Now she really was demanding and it was taking a toll on my wife, who never complained but kept doing,
as she did for all others, in the family and Volunteer Services.

So I said " that's it ".
I told my mother in other words " we love you, BUT "

Unfortunately it was not soon enough. My mother passed away
after a year and my wife was worn out completely.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't let yourself get
sick.
Give her the little things. When it gets too demanding remember " we love you, BUT "

Lou
Did I help any ???

If you do hire maid service or care giver, make sure they are bonded and insured. And get references and check them. My Mom finally went into assisted care at 90, but before that she had various cleaning services and a care giver part time. We didn't know what was going on because we live out of state, but when we went to clean out her house we found most of her jewelry and other valuables gone. Who knows who took them and when? Just an FYI. Good luck.
Clare

T, The best thing we ever did for my mother was contact a care giving facility and hired a 'companion' for her. We had to tell Mom it was someone that would run errands for 'you', bring 'you' to was the car wash, grocery shopping, help pay the bills, dishwasher, on occasion a bed changer, laundry, and conversationalist. This female companion ended up being 'our' end to 'our' problems...not Mom's.

Ditto to what Peppi said. Breathe and try your hardest to enjoy the time you have left with her. I remember, like it was yesterday, taking care of her needs for two years prior to getting the companion for her. My life and the lives of my siblings changed forever. It was an extremely difficult change but the change in my life was my problem, not Mom's. I guess it helps to know that prior to the making decisions about care giving. For me it was.

Ditto what Karen said about the agencies being bonded and insured, but in any case I'd help your mom get a safe deposit box for securing her valuables. I moved all of dad's older investment papers into the garage in sealed bins. Keep in mind my mother was aware and living there, but I was afraid of too much info being available. Since I handle their finances, I brought the current stuff to my house. Make sure to get on her bank account so you can monitor spending from afar- online.
The agency we contracted with said while they bond and insure with worker's comp, we'd be best securing valuables. The bonding only goes so far with a sentimental piece. Encourage your mom (I know easier said than done) to begin to disburse some "heirlooms" to the kids and grandkids while she can see you enjoy them. That works for my mom, my MIL wasn't as receptive. Whatever, your mother definitely needs some type of assistance at home!

Peppi, no problem. I was never driven to drink; do you think it might have helped?!

Yes, absolutely take the advice re: safe deposit box. Then of course, you have to see that she uses it, and keeps her purse locked up. My mother figured that out $1500 and many other missing things later. She also bought herself a heavy, locked jewelry case which brings a little piece of mind. She's had entry into her locked office, which things were taken from while she was at dinner.

Unfortunately this aspect of health care for the elderly attracts...opportunists...and thieves. There has been a high turnover in my mother's facility, and she's finally learned not to be so trusting. One worker she thought she'd made friends with, ''bought'' the rest of my mother's furniture for a significant sum, which she was never paid. It was only the first in a long line of learning experiences for her. It's hard to believe she was ever so naive, but she isn't any more.

When my MIL went into a care facility....they told me to make sure she had no good jewelry and she had a lovely little curio cabinet which was filled with bibelots important to her....most of them with some value like Hummels and little bits of nice glass and battersea boxes etc. Well they recommended a pad lock...so they screwed in a hasp and put a padlock on it....and now my daughter had a lovely curio, full of her grandma's pretties with a few holes in the frame where the padlock was.
And I couldn't stand the thought that she didn't have money in her purrse....she used to go down to the little store in the complex and buy pastries etc....so I left her with about $35.....and in a weeks he was asking me to cash a check for her. I asked where she spent the money she had....and she explained that one couldn't expect the people who served her dinner and cleaned up her room to work without being paid....I told her to just charge it and they would send a bill.
Watch closeley!
Linda C

trsinc, if I am not to late now is the time to call and speak to the social worker in the care facility that your mom is in. They can deal directly with your mom and help line up assistance.

I can only echo what Peppi said, enjoy her while she's here.

My father was probably the most demanding man ever set on this earth. He was accustomed to giving orders and he seldom requested, he demanded. He would not only boss me around, he'd give me instructions in the most minute detail. If we were Italian, he'd have been the Godfather, I swear.

On the flip side he would have done anything for anyone, if it was in his power and he'd have me do it if it wasn't within his power! I mostly did as I was instructed.

Dad passed away a year ago on August 14 and there are times I miss him so badly I still cry. I'd give anything I own and several lesser limbs to have him back.

Annie

I can only echo what Peppi and now Annie just said. Enjoy them while they are here. My mom has been gone four years this month and I still break down on occasion. Sometimes I think of my time with her as another lifetime. Yes, elderly people (and any age, really) can be difficult. Do the best you can and work around the rest. For example, every time I would visit my mom and dad...just as I was ready to leave...my dad would say, 'Oh, Duane...before you go would you help me with __________) Everytime! I learned to say I was leaving 1/2 hour to an hour before I really was going to leave to accomodate the 'request'. Now mind you..I could have been over for 6 hours and that request always came at the end of the visit. I suppose it was just a way to spend more time with me and on retrospect how can you really get mad about that? That could be part of what your mom is doing, at least unconciously. Even when she frustrates you to no end....give her a hug! I wish I could give my mom a hug again. Hopefully when my time comes and I go the the 'northern' place and not the 'other' place LOL!

Duane

I just wish that my Mom would have lived long enough for me to complain about her quirks as she aged. Duane, my Mom's been gone since 1970 & just this Christmas I had myself a good cry from missing her. Then, in an attempt to make me feel better...DH played a few accordion pieces that we've found that sound just like my Dad playing (he thought that would cheer me up). Nope, even though I had some serious "issues" with Dad...listening to that music just made me miss all those Christmas Eves when Dad would play until we fell asleep at his knees waiting for Santa. So, I cried more...

Chin up, you'll get thru these tough times with your Mom & way too soon she'll be gone.

Try a different approach...

Next time you're really irritated, stop, give her a hug, & say, "Mom, I love you!". Might make you both feel better?!

/tricia

Oh, Tricia...I sit here with tears streaming down my face. Your message was so heartfelt. Gosh, those Christmas Eves of past were really so magical. I suppose we shouldn't cry because they were good times, but we do because it was so special and our loss is hard to imagine. I suppose so many people didn't get the happy times we treasure and we should be grateful that we had them. But yes, it is bittersweet to recall the old times and easy to let ourselves grieve a bit for times past that will never be again.

Duane

I guess we all want attention, some of us more than others and I'd say older people more so than younger ones. And sometimes, the way we go about getting that attention can be far more than frustrating....like maddening.

However, that being said, I'll be turning 79 in a few months and I don't think of myself as elderly. My body probably is but in my mind I'm still 57. I hope I'm never a burden to my children but we never know, do we?

Trsinc, I hope things improve for you, but regardless I'll be saying a little prayer for patienace in dealing with a very difficult situation.

jude

Thanks again everyone. For the advice and for the prayers.

T

My Mother died a year ago yesterday! We were in South America and making our way home today and would get home tomorro. What should have been a two week cruise around Cape Horn, wasn't. But, we did get to go in March and it was the best trip ever,we made it a three week trip and the trip of a lifetime.

My Mother was the most loving and easy going person ever. Two years ago we were on the Panama Canal cruise (January and February are a good time for us to be gone) and my Mom ended up in the hospital because she forgot to take her medicine. Since then I took her medicine and meals twice a day to her, she got Home Delivered Meals at lunch.

My Dad had parkinson's disease, he passed away in 2000 and was diagnosed in 1991.

Believe me, there has been alot of caregiving and it has not always been easy, no it has never been easy!

My Dad's birthday was Jan. 1st., he and my Mom's wedding anniversay was Jan. 2nd., my Mom passed away Jan. 4th. and my birthday is Jan. 7th., and Mother's funeral was on the 8th. Yes, I have cried a few tears, but I am thankful that I had loving parents and I did!

Now the other part of the story. My DH's father had cancer and we, DH and I took him to treatment every day, a hundred miles away, he passed away about 6 yrs. ago. He was easy going and my heart still breaks for him. He was diagnosed in December and passed away in February.
DH's Mother is 80 yrs. old, she is deaf, but reads lips and is in really good health and is the hardest person in the world to get along with. I feel bad because I have taken care of people my entire life, but she makes it horrible.
I just want to cry and I do!

Trixie....I'm sorry....sending you a hug, some chicken soup, and a nice cup of tea and a cookie. And I have a box of tissues handy.
Sometimes things can get very difficult...Linda C

I had a friend lose her dad to cancer, and I asked her "do you feel differently about him now, or do you wish anything was different?" She says no. She says their relationship was difficult and she isn't going to sugarcoat it or pretend otherwise. She says the best decision she made while he was dying was just to tell him how she felt. I felt really empowered by this-- not that I'm recommending that you cut yourself off from any good times that might happen or special moments you might share with your mother in the future (unless you want to) but to give yourself permission to trust your gut. If you consistently feel bad around someone, you aren't going to miss that. You might grieve for the person you wished they'd turn into (in fact, I think there is a lot of evidence that the messier the relationship, the more difficult the grief), but still, we only get one life to do the things we enjoy. And, in my experience, indulging someone's bad behavior is bad for BOTH of you. Trust yourself, do what feels right.

There's a lot of ways people age. People can become more difficult in old age because as we age, we gradually loose control of our lives and also gradually loose our sense of being important. A lot of that is societal, but some of it is just how individual people define power and control. I know plenty of seniors who still contribute to society even after they retire, by serving on boards and volunteering for community service. They relate to others as friends, not just as bosses. But some people, like my folks for example, who were bosses at work their whole lives and who define power and contol by being infallible, do not deal well with aging. I would say, generally, that controlling people have a very difficult time with aging, and get more and more difficult as time goes on. 72 is not that old, but some people act like they are going on 92 their whole lives. Which is ironic, because there are probably some spry 92 year olds out there! Bear in mind what others have said, you can't control your mom but you can control how you react to her. You have some rights in this situation, and she has some adult responsibilities. If she chooses not to act like an adult (assuming she doesn't have some kind of dementia), then you are not responsible for her problems. Choose what you will do, and make it very clear that you are going to do as you see fit and if she doesn't like it, that is NOT YOUR PROBLEM. That's the only way you can deal with co-dependent people. You're just going to have to accept that she is going to be elderly and difficult. There's a difference between compassion (which you should exercise with your mom) and co-dependence, and the key is to navigate the line between the two. Recognizing the problem, like you have, is half the battle. And I think it also helps to share the burden by talking with others who are going through the same thing. I know I get a lot of solace from comiserating with my friends who are also dealing with or have dealt with difficult parental relationships. (Just ask Annie, lol!)