You wouldn't be the only DIYer to attend it. It's the Ceramic Tile Education Foundation in Pendleton, South Carolina. It's even right in the same complex as Schluter's school. Where are you going to be building this time? Is this the house in Mn.?

Here is a link that might be useful: CTEF

Unfortunately MN isn't healthy enough for our little guy so we're focusing on the pacific northwest. The cold and flu season is only 2 months verses 4 or 8 as it is here. The house in MN went off the market with no offers. We know she has to sell (conditions of a trust) so maybe if money allows we can get a chance at that later when reality hits and she realizes she has to price for the market she's in, not a big city market she's not in :)

So, this is the house...

I thought it would be fun to do those myself, since time won't be an issue (we can do them as we wish) and I'd most likely bring in a pro for some of it (if I do a wet room, slopes are key I think so I'm not sure I'd learn enough to do that....)

Here is a link that might be useful: Our next project

I think you are careful methodical and meticulous.
I think you see the big picture and the details too.
I think you're able to handle big and small tasks.
So I think you are a great person to tile.

-david

That house is BEAUTIFUL!! I mean, that thing looks like something out of a Christmas Village!!

Wanna trade? :-)

LOL oh good idea Bill...how about we house swap (and let's dog swap too) so I can enjoy the east coast and you the west. Don't let the piles of tile blocking all enterances to the bathrooms make you feel like you have to keep busy....heh heh

We are moving for DS"s health. We like this house for the obvious reasons, but also because we want to be the hang out house when he's older. It's best to know what they're up to :)

Bill, I'll bet Igloo would have a guest room or two for a Tile Tutor! My house isn't that beautiful, but I sure could find space!

Arlene

From Bill's Post......Yes, the CTEF school is great. As a member of John Bridge Forums, I was invited there last year to attend the Schluter Seminar that they offer. A wonderful opportunity! Call your local Schluter Rep and he can get you invited. All you pay is your transportation. A real class act. They put you up at a great hotel and pay all your meals. Generally a 2 1/2 day seminar and teach you a LOT. Time WELL spent!

Laz~

Tile school?

Save your money on the CTEF school.

Instead head on over to Home Depot.

They'll have the guy who used to work in fast food, but now runs the electrical department, set you up with a couple of buckets of mastic, a gallon of titebond glue, and some of that stainmaster water-soluble grout, and in no time at all you'll be on your way to creating things if beauty!

Oh, and don't forget tile spacers. You can't do anything without tile spacers!

And schluter? They make that overpriced new-fangled Kerdi stuff, right? Pssst...little secret...staple saran wrap to your walls instead, then cover the stapes with duct tape to seal the staple holes.

Saran wrap is plastic.

Kerdi is plastic.

Therefore, Kerdi is saran wrap.

I learned equivalent equations and other nifty stuff like that in colij.

It ain't easy being me,
Mongo

Did you just wake up one day that much off your rocker, or did you have to work at it? LMAO

Bill, I was pretty much just born with these natural talents! ; )

igloochic, for your original post?

First I'd recommend a book. I've not read John's Tile Your World book, though others do recommend it. I have read Michael Byrne's Setting Tile book, it's good at covering what's needed.

The most important thing is to feel confident regarding the proper step-by-step checklist to accomplish the task at hand. That list is dedicated to just knowing the proper steps to accomplish you are trying to do.

Now comes the second part...evaluating if you're physically capable, and handy enough, to actually do those steps. Some people are DIY-capable. Others are not.

Book learning and forum reading can help you build the step-by-step "how to do it" list.

But some people are intimidated by mixing their first batch of thinset, is it too thick, too thin, troweling techniques, etc.

That's where schooling; a seminar or a class, can help.

With nine bathrooms, you have plenty of room for a learning curve. That's not to say you can butcher your first bath and be happy with it.

Have the first project be simple ceramic, and work your way up through levels of difficulty, eventually getting to more difficult materials and layouts.

The first tiling I ever did was in my own house.

My first project was tiling the laundry floor. Very simple layout, nothing fancy, just one type of tile on that floor. As basic as things could be.

The second was my kids' bathroom floor. Ceramic tile, but two colors, a dot inlay in the field and a border around the perimeter of the room, which has inside and outside corners. Both layout and installation challenges in that room, more difficult than the laundry.

Next was the walls on my kids' tub surround. I framed a "fourth wall" on the front side of the tub and made an arched opening that you step through to get into the tub. Ceramic tile on the walls with two differently colored liners running across the walls about 1/3 and 2/3rds the height of the wall. Tiled the arched opening, curved cuts, etc.

The next was my master bathroom. A large walk-in Kerdi shower. Framed and tiled niche.

In the years since I've gone on to do pretty much everything that could be done in residential, and have never had an installation "oops" or a call back.

When working with new materials, or trying to incorporate a new method, I'm the guy that actually reads instructions and tries to follow directions.

So for me, my advice is to make a proper evaluation of your own skills. Igloochic, you definitely have an eye for style. You have an eye for detail. You're smart. That helps.

If you can be self-critical, if you are able to evaluate your own strengths and weaknesses, so to speak, that's a monumental asset.

So to wrap it up?

1) Educate yourself on "how" to do it. Books and online forums will answer any questions you might have.
2) Evaluate your own skills. If they are not up to snuff, or if you need a little nudge to build your confidence, sure, go to school.
3) When you start to tile, start simple and work up from there.
4) Know when to pull the plug and euthanize the patient. If your first row of tile looks crappy, squinting when you look at it and then grouting it over will not make it look better. Rip it out, improve your technique, and improve your skills.

You'll be better for it.

And one last thing...build a good foundation. Often times I see people rush through the not-so-glamorous stuff so they can get to the pretty stuff. Installing $75 a sqft tile on a lumpy or improperly installed base will give you a room that looks great for a couple of weeks. Until the grout starts cracking, the floor makes grinding or popping noises when you walk across it, and water infiltrates through the cracks.

Start with a good foundation and build off that. It makes the steps that follow go much easier.

Mongo

Mongo you crack me up and then educated me well :)

You know, I think what I'll start with is a very long reading assigment, of both of those books. I can get a feel for how much I think I can tackle with those. And they'd be a great foundation for the future school, which I'd like to do because I tend to prefer hands on training.

I'm not uncomfortable with my ability to critique myself. I know how wrong a tile job can go if the foundation isn't done well (because I've had plenty of those). I'm big on venetian plaster, (real stuff made of marble with lime). Learning to do that correctly means learning that the foundation is actually more important than the finish layers. Slow and steady, and lots of work, but fabulous if done right :o) (And I went to school for that too lol)

Physically my only worry is my current weakness in my left wrist. Today I couldn't do the job. I can't carry much tile, and I can't lean on my hand or work it too hard. Stregnth is only at 30% of my other arm, but I'm told that it takes about a year to recover (bad break while plastering the kitchen).

Las, schluter school is sounding better and better heh heh Even though I'm not a pro, and never plan on being one, I think my local folks might support me for an invite...we've spent more than thousands on this freaking remodel tile and have another project starting. I'm afraid I've turned into a tile freak like you guy...ummm I mean like some odd people get :oP

The house also has fabulous antique tile fireplaces. One needs some field tiles replaced. I've actually done that in DH's shower in texas, so I know I can do a little on my own :O)

Ohhhh and given your excellent advice, I've come up with a fabulous idea!! Sit down, cuz this will knock you pros off your socks, and it's going to be the business opportunity of a lifetime!

Ok Kerdi is plastic, seran is plastic, but plastic is also plastic...How many people do you know who have 400 tupperware lids, and only 300 tupperware pieces? Me, I know PLENTY!! Let's buy those puppy's up CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP and line the shower pan with tupperware lids! Gad I kill myself...why am I sharing this....I'm going to go down in the kitchen and get my foundation pieces for the garage wet area.....woo hoooooooo

Damn-- it's CONTAGIOUS!!

Igloochick, does this mean I and 400 Thomas trains plus DS are moved to the basement apt. so you can do the tile? If so I want cable tv. You know you can do the jobs and they will come out great, BUT I just don't belive you would start simple, no that is not your style at all! The harder the job the easyer it is for you,

"learning to tile"
 "learning to tile with confidence in oneself"
 "learning to tile by referring to product X continuously"
 "learning to tile by starting with a good foundation"

Wedi.

I see talk about K..di and not Wedi.

Wedi has advantages over K..di that experienced and beginners can appreciate.

I appreciate the long posts. They are great.

David

Wediboard is very popular with mosaicists, David, becuase of its lighter weight for hanging panels, although it's more expensive than, say, hardibacker, and in my area, harder to come by (the one place that carries it can only get it intermittently). I haven't used it yet, but I'd be interested in hearing more about what you think of it for actual tile installation and why the cost is justified (come to think of it, haven't compared it to kerdi...maybe it's not that much more expensive than kerdi). I'm about to do a bathroom and need to choose the substrate for the tub/shower and an extra horizontal counter.

hi flyleft,

if you open a thread all by yourself I'll get involved. This thread was mostly about one person seeking reassurance they could get into tile without chewing off more than they could handle. I've mixed cement dozens of times now, working with Wedi, K..di, Hardi-, Perma-, Durock, old slabs, new slabs, bricks, fireplaces, and even tiling onto (small, latexed pieces of) plywood, for tub surrounds, platforms, walls, sloped bases, flat floors, countertops, ceilings, fire-walls, outdoor balconies, and have used pure cement, many thinsets, parging cement, many grouts, including epoxy grout and epoxy used as a setting bed.

Wedi is a great thing to work with, so I would say it is a confidence booster. Kerdi is a lot of work, more steps, more time, to get the same result. Hope this is clear.
David

Sure, David, I'll do that--I'd love to hear more from someone experienced with Wedi.

As I've seen over the (way too many) years here at g'web, we do have a rather messy habit of letting conversations veer off into subdirections and such (and not just my doing, either :))...thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow and please don't be upset when you see folks start to talk about a particular element that's brought up in the course of conversation...we're just able to hold many threads in our heads at once (or maybe it's actually that our heads simply leak periodically...cf mongo's free-association masterpiece above :))

IC,

Funny that you should mention tupperware lids- but you're not the first person to think of it!

My girlfriend's brother is renting a basement suite, and the tub/shower wall is leaking. When he asked the landlord to fix it, she came in with a large tupperware lid (Not sure if she tried to glue it, or just expected him to prop it on the tub ledge). When he complained that it was still leaking, she got mad that he wasn't using the tupperware lid properly! I am telling you the God's honest truth!!! :>)

WOW! Igloochic buying a Queen Anne victorian. It's like peanut butter and jelly, like strawberries and whipped cream, like port and stilton, like hot chocolate and a roaring fire, like...awwwwww, it staggers the imagination. It just can't get any better!!!!

Now I can't do any more work on my Queen Anne victorian, because I have to wait and see what you do to yours so I can shamelessly copy!

Uh-oh. Hope Bill and Mongo are still watching. I realize you were having some fun, but did I read that right? No magic to Kerdi? Any membrane will do? I ask because there is only one Kerdi-certified installer in the Houston area, and reading on this forum I had gotten the idea one HAD to have a Kerdi drain/shower. Wrong?

Among many options, you choose one or the other. They all work.

I dislike seeing virtual promo of one product over all others. Referring to product X continuously, using it as a verb, bringing it up when nobody asked about it, etc, etc. This happens often with one orange membrane, in some discussion places.

-david

kerdi is actually a relatively new product, and there are several other excellent methods for installing showers... even steam showers, with out Kerdi ever "stepping foot" into your home. Below, I'll post a link to a site where it tells you how a conventional shower pan SHOULD be put together.

I will say one thing, though. Although I agree wtih David's premise that it shouldn't be a "one product show", I disagree with the use of any roll on waterproofing membrane as a shower pan liner. It might be personal opinion, but I just don't think they're strong enough to last.

here's the link I promised:

Sure, when I used to use CPE/Noble/Oatey/CPVC, I wrote about their membranes. Matter of fact I still write about them on occasion, but much less on this forum.

We've had a slew of threads about PE behind cement board shower construction.

If a DIY wanted to try floated mud walls, we'd write about those as well. But it's not generally a DIY-friendly method.

When I used Wedi years ago, I wrote about Wedi.

When I used Kerdi, I wrote about Kerdi.

I prefer cement board over fiber-cement 95% of the time. I prefer fiber-cement over cement board 5% of the time. Each works better for me in certain circumstances.

I do think that for moisture control, a topical membrane shower is superior to a membrane buried within the shower wall or buried in the shower base.

I don't want cement board walls or presloped mud bases getting wet. I build fairly tight houses, and moisture control is important to me at each and every location in the house.

A major point for me is I don't use foam presloped bases. Most every shower is a custom size so packed deck mud works best for me.

Wedi told me "...our shower is all inclusive, you use all or none."

Kerdi said "...sure, use our foam base or use the membrane over deck mud."

I settled on Kerdi as being the membrane for me. Unlike RedGard, it works as a shower membrane and as a steam room membrane. I prefer easy 100% coverage of sheet membranes versus the "I hope I didn't get any pinholes" roll-on membranes. And that's my personal limitation, my personal concern. Kerdi is readily available at the retail level in my area. Kerdi is easily transportable.

If Wedi would improve their distribution network they'd make inroads into DIY residential showers. They'd take market share away from Schluter from the builder side of it as well.

And there is the big difference. A builder who is set on a product that works for that builder is going to use that product. A DIY person, which is what this forum is geared to, needs to have a retail distribution network in place so they can access these products at the retail level.

All this relates to how I build and how the product works for me. So yes, more often than not I do Kerdi showers.

If a Wedi guy, or a CPVC guy, or a Kerdi guy, or a floated mud wall guy wants to post, have at it!

Heck, how often do I hear about hot-mopped pans on this and other forums? Do I ridicule them? Not at all. It's a regional thing, and I respect that.

All are welcome.

posted by jim1mckenna@yahoo.com Yumpin

When I was looking into Kerdi, My tile shop was telling me about wedi although it looks alot easyer to do it is alot more money 36by36 shower pan was 300.00 1/2 inch 3x5 sheet is 34.50, 57.00 for curbe, sealer for seams 4.39 tube at 7 tubes, washers 11.20 a box it really adds up.

Igloochic-- I don't know if you're still watching this thread, but here's a link you'll be interested in: