Exactly, the paper i pasted from describes the same phenom you have been describing for over 10 years. I have always raged that the big greenhouse media suppliers claim that 30% perlite into a peat is a high porosity mix. And so many growers prefer short squatty containers [helpful for blow over prevention but nothing else] Container Geometry is almost as important as the mix. i remember in 1984 I took a 400 level greenhouse management course at University of Delaware. The prof soaked a rectangular sponge and held it by the edges parrallel to the sink flatwise and let water drain, then he rotated the sponge on the shorter vertical axis and more water drained, when that free drainage ended he then rotated the sponge vertically in it tallest plane and more water drained. When I read your suggestion about using a draping shoelace as draining wick to lower the PWT the distance of the wick, I shouted YES at the elegant simple brilliance. In 1977 I grew a marijuana plant in a milk crate full of gravel, the stalk was over 2 inches in diameter [no different than growing in glass.] BTW, in your gritty mix what are the ratios and actual particle size for each component? I would think to use slightly larger particle sizes than i think you were using and i would probably consider using zeolite or a calcined DE or calcined clay. BTW, Ep minerals makes several absorbents both DE and Clay, Calcined or regular as various spill absorbers available in any auto parts store. 5o pounds for about 10 dollars. Don''t know the particle sizes but likely need to be screened to eliminate the fines. The clays are generally calcium bentonite and not sodium bentonite so less sodium and less swelling. I beileve Arcillite and Tuface are calcium bentonites. I was just thinking that decomoposed granite and even bark add no water holding capacity but with DE and Proper sized ceramics you could add more waterholding capacity but still maintain the airspace. The airspace in the ep mineral clay was pretty low when I measured it last, but I did not screen it. Somewhere I have a spreadsheet with AFP, WHC, TP, TPv, etc for over a dozen components and mixes. I have run quite a few in both 16 oz and taller 32 oz cups, [1 liter exactly when filled to rim overflow which makes that size intuitively easy for all the math. I think i found your posts about 3 years ago and then lost them. Am I correct in thinking you have some water release curve data around somewhere. Someone posted some WRC showing that Axis DE or perhaps the Axis clay media held huge amounts of water but easily released over 75% to the plant. TI can not find that post. I was actually searching for Vertical hydraulic conductivity, Capillary Rise and Capillary rate and wicking when your links showed up. The axis DE is like $90 a bag for 50 pounds so i think I could more cheaply reproduce from other products but have to screen. where I live in idaho, there is a Celatom DE plant less than 60 miles away, 2 zeolite mines, a sodium bentonite mine, WHC and Airspace mid 20s in the 2 larger particle sizess. Also the best white pumice [Hess] source mine a few hours away. I had hoped better water holding capacity. I plan on rerunning all the mixes again in a few months now that i have more standardized my process using multiple cup sizes, some of them tamped or shaken to settle, some top watered, some bottom water, measure distance of subsidence if any. I also have a vegetronix tensionometer now and will take additional measures at various depths to measure the exact tension and also verify depth of pWT which i can usually see through the transparent cups if I use a marking dye and saturate from below. Anyway I will share those spreadsheets in the near future If i were to guess, you have some sort of plant and soil science background or some civil engineering background and a love for plants. At any rate, your explanations and examples are some of the best I have ever come across, and your shoelace suggestion is brilliant, truly. i read so much WRONG advice or the wrong analysis for reason why something works or does not work. it is refreshing to come across accurate information Garret Goyette

Hello Jon. Yes it was my understanding that Chris used a systemic spray. It does sound like it is possible to parthenocarpic induce fruit set in sterile fruit with out natural pollen. We likely tried something that was available at his nursery like tomato set spray or a sales person from one of his vendors recommended a spray. Here is some information. When I have time I will give this a try? Best http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?p=21254 Tomato Fruit Set Spray User Name Remember Me? Password Register FAQ Links DB Calendar Today's Posts Search HortBoard If you are unsure about where to post your question, post it here in the Hortboard forum. New to gardening questions welcome! Search Forums Show Threads Show Posts Advanced Search Go to Page... Thread Tools #1 July 1st, 2005 Megami Generous Contributor (100+ posts) Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 166 Tomato Fruit Set Spray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is tomato fruit set spray and how/why does it work? Thanks! Megami View Public Profile Visit Megami's homepage! Find all posts by Megami #2 July 13th, 2005 Unregistered Posts: n/a Re: Tomato Fruit Set Spray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The active ingredient is the man-made auxin (hormone) 4-Chlorophenoxyacetic acid (4-CPA) that is well known to promote fruit set commercially. Bio101--Why it works: "...Fertilization within the ovules stimulates the ovary enclosing them to begin growing into a fruit. Within a few days the ovary begins to swell. This is called the fruit set. Fruit development is under the influence of the plant hormones auxin and gibberellin. Pollen is one of the richest natural sources of auxin, so it is thought that the initial stimulus to fruit growth comes simply from the auxin to which the pistil is exposed as a result of pollination. Applying the hormone auxin or gibberellin to the ovaries of flowers can induce a fruit to develop without pollination or fertilization. This is called a parthenocarpic fruit and is, of course, seedless." http://www.crfg.org/tidbits/gibberellic.html Gibberellic Acid for Fruit Set and Seed Germination John M. Riley The following information is taken from a article by John M. Riley that appeared in the 1987 CRFG Journal (vol. 19, pp. 10-12). See the back issue information for price and ordering information. The Germination Process The first stage of germination consists of ingesting water and an awakening or activation of the germ plasma. Protein components of the cells that were formed as the seed developed, became inactive as it matured. After an uptake of water, the system is reactivated and protein synthesis resumes. Enzymes and hormones appear and begin to digest reserve substances in the storage tissues and to translocate the digested substances in the storage tissues to the growing points of the embryo. The sequence of the metabolic pattern than occurs during germination involves the activation of specific enzymes at the proper time and regulation of their activity. Control is exercised by four classes of plant hormones: inhibitors such as abscissic acid which block germination; auxins which control root formation and growth; the gibberellins which regulate protein synthesis and stem elongation; and cytokinins that control organ differentiation. Ethylene is also believed to have a control function in some plants. Sometimes the last three controls are used together to crash through dormancy in germinating difficult seed. Gibberellic Acid Gibberellic acid (actually a group of related substances called gibberellins) was discovered as a metabolic byproduct of the fungus Gibberella fujikuroi, which causes the stems of growing rice to elongate so rapidly the plant collapsed. Synthetic forms of gibberellic acid are available commercially. Gibberellic acid (GA) is a very potent hormone whose natural occurrence in plants controls their development. Since GA regulates growth, applications of very low concentrations can have a profound effect. Timing is critical: too much GA may have an opposite effect from that desired; too little may require the plant to be repeatedly treated to sustain desired levels of GA. Effects of Gibberellic Acid Overcoming dormancy. Treatment with high concentrations of GA is effective in overcoming dormancy and causing rapid germination of seed. Concentrations of about 2 ppm can cause tubers to sprout earlier. Premature flowering. If a plant is sufficiently developed, premature flowering may be induced by direct application of GA to young plants. This action is not sustained and treatment may have to be repeated. Formation of male flowers is generally promoted by concentrations of 10 to 200 ppm., female flowers by concentrations of 200 to 300 ppm. Concentrations of more than 600 ppm markedly suppresses initiation of both male and female flowers. Increased fruit set. When there is difficulty with fruit set because of incomplete pollination, GA may be effectively used to increase fruit set. The resulting fruit maybe partially or entirely seedless. GA has increased the total yield in greenhouse tomato crops both as a result of increased fruit set and more rapid growth of the fruit. Hybridizing. Pollination within self-incompatible clones and between closely related species may some times be forced by the application of GA and cytokinin to the blooms at the time of hand pollination. Increased growth. GA applied near the terminal bud of trees may increase the rate of growth by stimulating more or less constant growth during the season. In a Department of Agriculture experiment, the GA was applied as a 1% paste in a band around the terminal bud of trees. Treatment was repeated three times during the summer. Walnut tee growth was 8.5 ft. for treated trees, 1.5 ft. for untreated trees. Frost protection. Spraying fruit trees at full-blossom or when the blossoms begin to wither can offset the detrimental effects of frost. Root formation. GA inhibits the formation of roots in cuttings. Recipes Although GA is not listed as a "poison", the following precautions should be observed: Flush with water any GA that may get into the eye. Avoid skin contact if possible. If skin contact is suspected, wash with soap and water. Do not re-enter an area after spraying until the GA spray is fully dry. Avoid ingestion of GA. The powder may be dissolved as specified below to give the desired concentration. Concentration parts/million GA mg Water ml (cup) Purpose 50 125 2400 (10 1/2) Early flowering 200 125 600 (2 1/2) Early flowering 800 125 160 (2/3) Blossom set 2000 125 60 (1/4) Seed germination 1% paste 125 5 ml (1 tsp.) lanolin Growth promoter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright 1987,1997, California Rare Fruit Growers, Inc. Questions or comments? Contact us. http://www.super-grow.biz/GibberellicAcid.jsp#combine

Hey Joe! First of all, I personally think (and as far as "we" know) plants' purpose is much more than sole reproduction. Plants aren't only an important part of the food chain, but have complex symbiotic connections and relationships inside their own kingdom as in others. They play an important role in keeping earth atmosphere clean and stable, as we know. Furthermore they could be building material for bird nests, or serve rodents or mammals for multiple other purposes (castors), etc, etc. But most importantly, they are the recycled building blocks for soil, humus, folic acids and yes, too many to mention. I don't need to point out what they provide for one particular species called Homo Sapiens, or do I? We wouldn't leave the tremendous purposes that plants have for us out of the equation, or would we? I believe that my statement as in "In nature and in soil culture, it doesn't work like that" is totally accurate when put in the original context I used it - and not treated in a different-one. In nature nutrient supply is either quite stable, varies widely and sometimes is even random, and yet plants are able to adopt, survive and reproduce under various (although in sufficient) conditions. Unlike hydroponic culture which is a much more stable and controlled (sometimes even intentionally manipulated) environment indeed. You gave the example of rainy (or monsoon) season. Well that's actually a good example to demonstrate that it is in fact the other way round. In Northern Thailand and in many other tropical or subtropical regions, the monsoon season is quite extended, as it generally last from May until November, that's about 7 month of frequent rainfalls, high humidity that goes along with high bacterial activity and a rather stable PH in soil (depending on area, forest or open field etc., of course). And yet many "blooming-fruiting" plants can cover 2 complete reproduction cycles in this time laps, with quite stable climatic and in fact similar nutritional conditions. In a Rain-forest, you have got extremely stable and constant climatic conditions and virtually no changes in "nutrient availability" due to climatic changes, as well as soil PH is concerned. And yet you have the greatest biodiversity in both animal and plant kingdom there is on earth. On top of that, around the equator you have very constant (actually unchanged) light cycles. How would the reproduction cycle be triggered at such location then, if not simply by a "time clock" as I suggested. In some "moderate-oceanic" climate or any other much more seasonal climate where "annum species" are much more common, with some plants, reproduction cycles get indeed triggered by light cycle and to some extend certainly also through nutrient availability. But as I understood it, this is more like a "survival instinct" or a last resort to ensure reproduction in a rush with drought or nearing winter, a survival plan B if you prefer. Thus one shouldn't fall for a hasty generalization and think this is COMMON with all plants and under all climates. Last but not least, the culture plants in question, tomatoes and various pepper species (those were actually discussed, right?) are in fact tropical pants by origin - but let's be objective here: heavily cultivated and domesticated since then. Thus I assume that these plants are not only genetically, but due to domestication, selection and culture in fact adapted to controlled and rather stable conditions and this is one more clue why their uptake habits may not be connected with drastic nutrient changes that are directly linked to climatic changes. But what is the conclusion?! I mean what is of actual Interest for hydroponics and what is in fact the best nutrient strategy for tomatoes or peppers? I guess that practice and experience, experimentation, scientific records and commercially used nutritional plans are required. And that extended debates are in fact just suited as "office reading matter" or for general entertainment purposes ;-) Honestly, I like to narrate indeed, but I don't conclude never ever any of my nutrient strategies from any slightly controversial "forum debate" LOL

Barbara, The only time my first fruits aren't bland are if we have a heat wave in April and May. When we moved here from Texas in 1999, I was always happy to have the first ripe fruit in early to mid-June. Then I started experimenting and pushing the limits. After a few years of learning to combine early varieties/early planting and proper watering/feeding (as in not too much of either) along with covering the plants up on the occasional freezing night, I was able to start getting ripe tomatoes on plants in the ground by Memorial Day. Well, nothing succeeds like success, so then.... I started planting even earlier (early to mid-March in a year with cooperative weather), using fairly large transplants started from seed in January and was able to get ripe fruit on plants in the ground in April. While any home-grown tomato beats a grocery story tomato, the ones I pick in April are from flowers that likely formed in February or earliest March and their flavor is pretty bland. Having said that, I'd rather have them than not have them! Wondering if I could "use" the concrete patio that is attached to the detached garage/barn to heat up containers/soil and get even earlier tomatoes, I plant 6 to 8 plants every year in pots that sit on the concrete slab and soak up a lot of winter and early spring sunlight and heat. They also have a steel wall behind them that reflects sunlight and heat onto them. I don't start these plants myself because I can buy fairly good-sized transplants (often with blooms on them) in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex around Valentine's Day that are much larger than the ones I start in January, and I refuse to try to start seeds during on the holiday madness in November-December. From those transplants, I also get ripe tomatoes in April, but their hotter microclimate gives me better-flavored tomatoes. And, of course, if a serious late freeze threatens (as has been common here in 2007-2009), I can drag the large containers into the garage at night. I have tried to carry tomatoes very late into the fall, but their flavor does decrease significantly in November even if the weather is fairly warm, and I assume that must have something to do with the less intense sunlight and heat. So, I have become spoiled and expect my first ripe tomatoes in April. I had some ripe ones in April this year but their flavor wasn't as good as in previous years. I also consider it a fairly disappointing year if I am not harvesting oodles of them by Memorial Day from plants in the ground, so this has been a disappointing year. The harvest here is fine, but very late compared to most years in our garden. Still, at least we have plants that are producing ripe tomatoes and there's plenty of other gardeners who don't, especially some of those in the NE who are fighting constant rain and little to no sunlight or heat plus the development of late blight. I also understand the near-drought conditions in parts of the PNW have given some gardeners there the best crop they've had in years and I am happy for them. Arizona Sooner, One of the hardest things for all of us is that we have to "work with that we've got". For me, that would mean yucky clay soil (even when improved, it is slower-draining than most soils) and recurring drought. For some folks in NE OK it almost always means too much rain, especially at planting time. For Jay in SW KS, it means too many cold nights too late in spring and very, very little rainfall in recent years. For you, it means being away from home and relying on a sprinkler system. Maybe you'll be able to tinker with your watering schedule and figure out a way to make it all work for you. I certainly hope so. I know that a lot of hard work, effort, planning and dreaming goes into each garden and it is very disheartening when the produce doesn't taste as good as it should. Don't give up. After 'tinkering' with my growing methods for longer than a couple of decades, sometimes I still struggle to find what works best in different circumstances. The good years, though, far outweigh the bad ones. So, in the midst of a bad year, you know what we're all saying and thinking. It goes something like this....."There's always next year. Next year I'll do some things differently. Next year will be better." And, you know, next year usually is better! Dawn