I'm in the scenario as you, relative to children.

The model that we narrowed down our selection to is the Excella integrated G2630SCi model. It has the same functionality and less expensive than the La Perla model, comes in an angled control panel model and has both door and panel child locks.

The Excella has a fully integrated model as well. But, ALL Miele fully integrated models (with the hidden controls) have no door locks. So, anyone can open the dw at any time.

If you are close to one, you may want to visit a Miele showroom and look at all the units. It solidified our decision on the Excella. Now...I just need to go and get it ;)

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Site - Excella G2630SCi Integrated Model

ok, probably not much help here but gotta reply;
have a non-modern style kitchen in a 30's era house
just redid with Bluestar 30"; Liebherr 30" and Miele DW;
You will love them all, trust me.
Ended up with the Excella, but in all white; the sink is white cast iron and so that wall of the kitchen looks good with a white appliance; the SS guys are in another part of what is a pretty small kitchen
Could that possibly work for you?

gfrnd--a little OT but I am also getting the Liebherr 30". I am now in the remodel phase of doubting everything I ordered! I love the look of the Liebherr but am now worried about the height of it. Can you tell me what you think of yours--does the tallness look awkward in a non-modern kitchen??

I did not see your original posting, but I would not hesitate to buy the Asko, if that's what you like. I had one for 7 years, no problems, quiet and cleaned well. My new kitchen will also be equipped with an Asko when I get around to remodeling.

I appreciate all of your feedback. A couple of questions/comments for you all:

mando--The Excella model does seem the most appropriate, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around its hefty price tag (or rather, my husband is). Did you check out the Optima (seems a bit simpler, though not all that different from the higher end versions)? Just curious why you chose the Excella over the Optima?

gfrnd--Wow, your kitchen situation sounds a lot like ours. I'm assuming your range is stainless? We've determined that our kitchen will look better with a color (we think a deep brown would blend nicely--our house is turn-of-the-century, with dark woodwork throughout). Also, which hood do you use (we have yet to decide on one)? I like the idea of a white Miele (we have an old, long white cast-iron sink that comes with the house and that we plan on keeping), but unfortunately we just found out that there will be almost no separation between our dw and our range (ugh!), so we're thinking that we may need to order a dw that takes a custom wood panel on the front. Why did you choose the Excella over the Optima? Also, would love to read your response regarding kimwok's Liebherr question.

baver--I really do like the Asko (and how much water it saves), but I hesitate to purchase one b/c of all of the negative comments that I've read on various forums. They seem really hit-or-miss and not so great when it comes to customer service, whereas the Miele seem pretty consistent in their quality and seem to have decent customer service.

Thanks All.

ky...

The Optima was our primary target until we realized that the Optima does not have a child panel lock. So, those little fingers can play with the panel at will. With the Excella, the panel is lockable.

Also, with the Excella, we have the option of washing "large" items by removing the middle rack. I BBQ quite a bit and putting my BBQ racks in the DW to clean would help me out quite a bit. The Optima doesn't have this option. Also, the rack configuration is better on the Excella than the Optima.

Hope this helps.

I have the laperla not the Excella. These are very similar. The only differences I see between these two is that the Excella can be fitted with a custom panel, the laperla is supposed to be quieter, and you put water softener salt into the door like detergent instead of putting it in the bottom and it has the black flat screen interface. That's it.

I think the Optima will be a very very good DW. Folks on this forum have them. I think it has all of the functionality needed for good performance and clean dishes so I understand your DH thinking. It will clean and you will be happy with that.

My reasons for choosing a model above the Optima:

Just like the Optima these models will adjust the wash water temperature depending on the cycle chosen to the soil level - saving some energy.

Additional Cycles:
Some of them I don't use but some are helpful for example:

You can wash in the bottom only. You remove the top rack and you can place tall items, cookie sheets..whatever in the bottom and since you can also wash glasses in the bottom this is handy. Better for me than washing only in the top with limitations for tall items.

Cheese/Pasta cycle. cycles used for items with baked on cheese pasts or anything else. Part of this cycle consists of a long prewash in which the water gets heated hot. Does a good job. I am not saying the Optima will not clean this load using the pots and pans cycle but I do like the heated prewash and hot extended wash.

Shorter cycles...There are a few additional cycles for everyday soil that take a bit less time than those on the Optima and still clean good. I wanted to take advantage of these.

Soil Sensor:

Cycles...(not all) will use the soil sensor to determine soil level and then modify the cycle sequence to adjust for the soil level...dirtier...longer cycle phases more after rinses, not so dirty..shorter cycles, fewer water changes but you will always get at least 2 full after rinses--I like this..I want full water changes for rinses. This may not sound like a big deal but why wash dishes for an hour or rinse dishes for 30 minutes if they can get just as clean and rinsed in less time using less water?

Automatic Load recognition:
The machine detects the size of the load(how many dishes, how large..etc) and will adjust the amount of water taken for each fill to match the size. Many DW brands offer this but Miele only offers this in the U.S.A on the Excella and Laperla models.

Split cutlery tray: I think this is only found on the Excella and Laperla. I could be wrong about this. It allows you to remove parts of the upper cutlery tray which can then be slid from side to side or to the middle to make room for larger items in the middle rack.

Cycle options:

On some cycles you can choose to add a rinse, a soak, or extend drying time.

Sound:

Each model up the line is supposed to be a bit quieter so the Excella is rated as quieter than the OPTIMA although I think actual sound you hear is somewhat subjective and depends on surroundings and other activities going on at the same time.

I have a La Perla and love it. I never thought I'd spend $2,000 for a dishwasher, but what can I say? LOL

I had some cleaning issues that were well documented in the forums, but those have all gone by the wayside once I settled on a good detergent and got used to the Miele's quirks (it has a few, like any product).

The biggest bonuses to the La Perla (and Excella) that I can see are the in-door salt reservoir for softening -- I have extremely hard water -- and the large selection of cycles. Some have said the cycles are fluff, but in reality each cycle is optimized to perform a specific task. Being resource conscious I also appreciate the load sensing and water saving features.

Good luck, you can't go wrong!

I love my Optima! I seem to use NORMAL cycle for just about every load (except for the rare occasion when I decide to "play" or throw in a pot that I think might need more DW elbow grease!).

Our salt reservoir is on the bottom of the machine, not in the door like some/one of the higher models. We've only filled ours once so far (in use since late spring), so while an in-door salt reservoir would be easier to access, it might not come into play too often here anyway.

Question for cat mom--Do you have children, and if so, are they able to get into trouble with the Optima? Are you able to wash crystal and china in it?

No kids here (and the cats haven't learned how to open or use the DW---lol!). I kno some on this forum have mentioned the child lock feature being available on other models, and perhaps not on the OPTIMA, but having no kids, we didn't really pay attention to whether a DW had that feature or not.

The OPTIMA does have a C&C (china and crystal) cycle, but we did a hot water hook-up, so we don't use that cycle (except perhaps as a short cycle?). All of our dishes and most of our wine glasses are DW safe, and the few pieces of "good crystal" we do have (like a pair of Baccarat champagne flutes) will never see the inside of a DW, no matter how gentle the cycle--too much risk of chipping/breaking while loading and unloading the other stuff around 'em.

If you do a cold water hook-up, you can run the C&C cycle as intended--for special care china and crystal pieces.

Thanks so much for all of the helpful feedback. Quick question for the very informative and helpful Jerrod6: Do you know if the heated prewash is still possible if the dw has the cold water hook-up (mentioned by cat mom)?

Also, gfrnd--do you think that you could attach some photos of your kitchen? It sounds very similar to what ours will ultimately look like, so I'd love to see it.

Thanks!

Current Miele DWs do not require a specific incoming hot water temp. Many machines sold in the USA ask the consumer to supply a water temp of 120F, but because Miele is made in Europe it is assumed that it will have cold water coming to the machine. For this reason it doesn't care if you have hot water coming to it or not and will heat the water to the temp it needs.

So If you have the DW connected to cold water and you use the cheese or pasta cycle which has a heated pre-wash..the dishwasher will heat the water for this prewash. The China Crystal cycle uses a temp of about 115F for the wash which is too low for the settings that are found on most U.S.A hot water heaters. It works though if you feed in cold water..the machine just heats it to 115F.

I don't have China or Crystal that goes in the DW so mine is connected to hot water...My kitchen is far from the water heater so my machine must do some heating of the water even though the water is coming from the "hot" supply. There is not a lot of water used in any one fill depending on the load size, so it doesn't really take that long to heat.

Also if you do a search on this board for the thread Miele Dw loading or something like that you will see some pictures I posted of a typical load I did last December. Some say the Euro models are smaller than domestic, and perhaps they are a bit smaller in cabinet dimensions, but the interior racks hold a lot.

The big diff with a cold water hook-up (besides ability to use C&C cycle for crystal and fine china) is the length of the wash time(s). I believe (and jerrod will correct me if I'm wrong, please) that with a cold water hook-up, the wash times are a little longer (but running the DW is more energy efficient or is it cheaper?). With a hot water hook-up, the cycles are a little shorter, but you are consuming more energy to feed the DW hot water. Trade-off, that's all.

Yes I think Cat mom is correct. Using a cold fill and heating the water will increase the cycle time OVER using hot water. This is because the DW expects the wash cycle and the final rinse cycle to last X amount of time with hot water, so it will need to add time to heat the water to whatever temp the cycle is using.

It is probably more energy efficent to have the DW heat the water since it only has to heat as much as it uses which is very little.

I have a wholehouse tankless heater so there is no hot water sitting around, but as I mentioned my kitchen is not near the heater(I wish I could change this). When I had a hot water tank things were not much better because most times the DW will not draw enough water through the lines so that any direct fresh water from the heater reaches it.

In the winter the water reaching my DW is not HOT but it isn't as cold as the 37F water coming into the house either.

Difference will be in cycle time longer with DW getting unheated water..shorter with DW getting heated water.

Wow--Jerrod6 and Cat Mom--you guys rock with all of this fabulous information. So I have one last annoying question for you both (and for anyone else who'd like to respond): Did either of you ever consider purchasing an Asko dw? If so, why did you choose the Miele over the Asko?

After this, I will stop obsessing...

I learned a big chunk of my info here, and a lot of that from jerrod! Thanks!

I don't think we even considered the Asko ((beyond a vague name recognition from seeing them years ago at Sears while washer/dryer shopping, it just wasn't on my radar, don't know why). Miele was one brand I knew I'd heard/read good things about, and we had started looking at them early on. When I'd asked DH if we should look (or should have looked) at other brands (such as Bosch), or if he went along with the Miele just because I had "said" Miele, he said no, he'd heard good things about the Miele, too. It has a really good, and well-deserved reputation. When we'd gone to the appliance store, some of the Miele's features that the salesperson pointed out really appealed to us (SS spray arm, built-in water softener, the infamous cutlery tray...).

We considered the model below the Diamante (the Diamante can't be integrated), but we liked the bottom rack on the Optima much better (for our needs/loading style), and we liked the idea of a water softener. We didn't see a need for going any higher (model)--I wouldn't use half the cycles. As I mentioned before, I use the NORMAL cycle almost exclusively. The sensor cycle on some or one of the upper models might have been nice to have (eliminates ALL the guesswork!!!) but wasn't worth the extra cost to us. We're very happy with our OPTIMA; it's much quieter than our old DW, and it actually gets everything clean!

An aside to jerrod--just saw Cascade Complete reg scent, no bleach (AKA the original version) on the supermarket shelf this afternoon. Uh oh--and I was all set to make the switch to the Miele tabs when my box of CC finally runs out. I had an excuse to go with the pricey but great cleaning, fresh smelling tabs but now my excuse is no more. What to do.....? LOL!

Cat_MOM You know what to do! You buy Cascade Complete reg scent AND buy Miele tabs at least once! This week I have been using Cascade 2n1 pacs with the economy cycle and will post some results in that DW detergent thread in a few days.

kymgreybeck - why did I chose Miele...This is a long story but I will try to condense it.

I grew up in a KA family. We always had them --well not at first-- we had a few other brands that didn't do so well if I remember my mother correctly. My aunts and uncles had them. My first apartment after school had one. If you heard the name KA it was assumed to be high quality and good...and in my experience it was.

My next place, a condo had a Whirlpool My next house had one in when I moved into it. My current house had one but it was a 1960's model and was a bit small and loud...this was in the early 1990's.

I started doing research for a new Dw and found that the KA name brand had been sold to Whilrpool. I had a Whirlpool in the condo and didn't much like it compaired to my previous KA's...but I decided to reserach the KA. I wasn't in any kind of rush and took 1 year to reaseach it. I ordered the brochures and got some technical info and found that the inside design of the new KA had been changed. Nothing wrong with change but it looked more like a whirlpool than the orignal KA did. The orginal KA worked for years without problem so why change them. I looked and looked and ordered information about different brands as well as looked at them.

Then I read Consumers reports and found that KA had been lowered from thier Top ratings and that there were cleaning and mechanical problems with them(this was CR in the early 1990's when they still could be trusted to actually test and report accurately) but this had never happened with previous KA's.

This was in the early 1990's and does not reflect what may be the case with KA and Whilrpool today.

So I decided to find something else. I kept looking and one day saw a Miele in architectual Digest. I never heard of them. I ordered their brochure and then went to several different places and talked with the salesmen. They were advertised as being quiet and well built--but it was Miele advertisments so how much do could I trust that?

In 1990's this thing was more expensive than any other DW I saw and I was not crazy about that but I remembered my parents thinking which was...don't buy things that need to be thrown away..wait..save..buy something that costs a bit more but may last longer.

Now this is not all ways the case--paying more gets more--not all ways the case..but I did like the idea of it lasting a long time..which doesn't mean you will never fix it but may mean that it's total life span would be long.

I decided to give it a try..hopeing for the best since I had never heard of this Miele thing.

The Dw was installed into my old kitchen in 1996. It was quiet, it was no heat drying but with a fan, it cleaned everything, using 5 or less gallons of water.

In 2006 I redid the kitchen and was torn because there was nothing wrong with the dW so I decided to keep it. The kitchen was redone using black and SS appliances. I then saw the 2006 new mieles and also saw that the build still looked good..still retained some of the orginal features and was still made by the same company. I also found one that matched my kitchen scheme...so I bought this new one in 2006. The quality of products made today is not what is was even 10 years ago and I was also afraid that if I waited to buy another DW I would not be able to get another one like the one I had...so I went ahead with the purchase of the new one at this time.

I hated the day the new one came..because my old one left..after completing the load of dishes I put into it in the morning. So in ten years of operation..no pre rinsing, clean pots and pans, low noise, low water consumption, high wash temp..and no repairs my old one was wheeled outside to the truck while my new one was brought into the house.

Sorry I hit the submit button before I completed my message so this is the completed message along with a spell check!

Cat_MOM You know what to do! You buy Cascade Complete reg scent AND buy Miele tabs at least once! This week I have been using Cascade 2n1 pacs with the economy cycle and will post some results in that DW detergent thread in a few days.

kymgreybeck - why did I chose Miele...This is a long story but I will try to condense it.

I grew up in a KA family. We always had them --well not at first-- we had a few other brands that didn't do so well if I remember my mother correctly. My aunts and uncles had them. My first apartment after school had one. If you heard the name KA it was assumed to be high quality and good...and in my experience it was.

My next place, a condo had a Whirlpool My next house had one in when I moved into it. My current house had one but it was a 1960's model and was a bit small and loud...this was in the early 1990's.

I started doing research for a new Dw and found that the KA name brand had been sold to Whirlpool. I had a Whirlpool in the condo and didn't much like it compared to my previous KA's...but I decided to research the KA. I wasn't in any kind of rush and took 1 year to research it. I ordered the brochures and got some technical info and found that the inside design of the new KA had been changed. Nothing wrong with change but it looked more like a whirlpool than the original KA did. The original KA worked for years without problem so why change them especially since we were not that energy conscience then and it still used a lot of water and electricity just like the older models. I looked and looked and ordered information about different brands as well as looked at them.

Then I read Consumers reports and found that KA had been lowered from their Top ratings and that there were cleaning and mechanical problems with them(this was CR in the early 1990's when they still could be trusted to actually test and report accurately) but this had never happened with previous KA's.

This was in the early 1990's and does not reflect what may be the case with KA and Whirlpool today.

So I decided to find something else. I kept looking and one day saw a Miele in Architectural Digest. I never heard of them. I ordered their brochure and then went to several different places and talked with the salesmen. They were advertised as being quiet and well built--but it was Miele advertisements so how much do could I trust that?

In 1990's this thing was more expensive than any other DW I saw and I was not crazy about that but I remembered my parents thinking which was...don't buy things that need to be thrown away..wait..save..buy something that costs a bit more but may last longer.

Now this is not all ways the case--paying more gets more--not all ways the case..but I did like the idea of it lasting a long time..which doesn't mean you will never fix it but may mean that it's total life span would be long.

I decided to give it a try..hoping for the best since I had never heard of this Miele thing.

The Dw was installed into my old kitchen in 1996. It was quiet, it was no heat drying but with a fan, it cleaned everything, using 5 or less gallons of water.

In 2006 I redid the kitchen and was torn because there was nothing wrong with the DW so I decided to keep it. The kitchen was redone using black and SS appliances. I then saw the 2006 new Mieles and also saw that the build still looked good..still retained some of the original features and was still made by the same company. I also found one that matched my kitchen scheme...so I bought this new one in 2006. The quality of products made today is not what is was even 10 years ago and I was also afraid that if I waited to buy another DW I would not be able to get another one like the one I had...so I went ahead with the purchase of the new one at this time.

I hated the day the new one came..because my old one left..after completing the load of dishes I put into it in the morning. So in ten years of operation..no pre rinsing, clean pots and pans, low noise, low water consumption, high wash temp..and no repairs my old one was wheeled outside to the truck while my new one was brought into the house.

So my posts today reflect my experience with the machines from 1996..My first one and now this one. I am a bit of a detail freak especially when it comes to machines so I will pay attention to everything to see what it does and how it does it. I am intrigued by how things are designed and why..so that is why you will find posts where I am testing detergents and how the machine works with them, or why I know that you get an additional 3rd rinse in some cases..and what is different in cycle X compared with cycle Y.

I typically will not comment or will reserve detailed comment on appliances I have never used or owned. I don't have personal experience with them so I leave the details those who have used them.

So I came to Miele DW by accident 11 years ago. I don't think this forum was around then...at least I didn't know about the Garden Web until 2003 after I had purchased a Miele FL washer and was looking for forums that dealt with FL since they weren't that common in 2003.

OK folks that my appliance life story! :)

Jerrod--you know I already have a box of the Miele tabs!! In fact, I have a load running with one right now, as I type this! I started it with 1/2 a tab, but chickened out and threw in the other 1/2 a few minutes later (gunky bowl and serving fork and spoon in the load and didn't want to take a chance, however unlikely, of ending up needing to wash them by hand after unloading the DW).

There is a slight edge with using the Miele tabs vs the CC powder (that extra hint of sparkle, and a fresher smell when I open the DW after running it). I'm trying to decide if it's really enough of a difference to justify spending that much more $ for a dishwasher detergent.

Wow--thanks for all the info. It sounds like Miele is the way to go (though I must admit that I'm still slightly intrigued by the Asko's supposed eco-friendliness). I really appreciate the time that you all took to fill me in on your experiences with Miele dishwashers (a special gold star to Jerrod6 and Cat Mom!).

Thanks again.
Kym

The Euro Miele manuals give the water and electric consumption for each program cycle. The USA manual doesn't but using the Euro example it seems that the dishwasher uses between 4 and 5 gallons of water(about 1 for rinse hold) depending on load and cycle and could use 6 if the load is very dirty because it will add extra rinses for very dirty loads, or times when the detergent is not completely rinsed away. So the Miele is not too bad with eco-friendliness but perhaps not as good as Asko DW. I can tell from opening the door during the wash and rinse that there is so very little water inside that it is scary-- to think that it could do anything with it -- but still it washes and rinses completely. Most fills last 34 seconds, but not always because this depends on the load size and because it doesn't use a timed fill it will draw water until it has enough so time could vary with water pressure changes due to what is going on elsewhere in the supply lines.

The Miele brochure mentions that the parts are labeled so that they can be manually sorted by different materials for recycling at the end of their life...No mention of who is doing this sorting or if it can be done here in the U.S.A. We are going to sort DW parts? I doubt it. Maybe Miele employees do but everyone else? Yeah. Unless their repair people have to turn the parts back into the company..that's a possibility.

If you have friends that have Asko's and you are intrigued by them then perhaps you should get one. Maybe if you don't you will always wonder "what If I had that Asko DW?"

I mean we ARE talking Dishwashers not husbands and wives so you could buy one and if you don't like it wait a while and buy something else and just say you made a mistake..things didn't work out. Stuff happens.

Jerrod6--That's pretty funny. I think I'm spending more time and effort figuring out which appliances to get than I did deciding on whether or not I should say "yes" to my husband! I think it's time to get a little perspective...

Thanks again for all of your help.

Kym

Kimqok- Sorry, I was away from the computer
The height is definitely noticeable! Prior to the remodel the fridge was in a cubby that was not tall enough. We put a built-in cabinet there and moved the fridge to a wall. It fits great in the kitchen and no one has commented that it seems out of place.
What a great box it is, quiet, keeps very stable temps holds food extremely well. Haven't reconsidered the decision for a second.

The bluestar is stainless; the kitchen sort of divides into a white zone: against the outside wall with a white cast iron sink and wite dishwasher; and an ss zone with the Liebherr, range, range hood and a Boos table with an ss top.
Kitchen is not large, but I think it comes together well. Coutertops are soapstone in a dark green pattern.

gfrnd--

Is there any way for you to post some photos of your kitchen? It sounds so nice. We're still working on designing ours and would love to get some ideas. If it's too much of a problem, then no worries.

May I ask what hood you purchased? That's the last thing we must decide upon. We need to maximize space, so we need one that allows for cabinets above. We were thinking Best or Kobe? Not sure which one will go better with the Bluestar.

Thanks!
Kym

well, if we are going to have matching kitchens, the go for the Kobe, lol. I picked the prof design (don't remember the exact model looked it up CH100) 36"; was warned to get one that is wider than the stove and deep enough. I like it fine, can't say its "love" but it's not too noisy and does a good job of moving steam out of the kitchen. Uses baffles rather than screens.
Biggest problem was the backsplash going from a 36" hood to a 30" range; I got the sheet of ss from Kobe but we couldn't figure out the transition. After a lot of thought, ended up with tile behind the stove, same as the sink area.

As far as pictures, don't live there during the week so I can't get any immeidately; will try to get some shot in the next day or so.

That's really funny--I just got off the phone with Trevor at Eurostoves after having decided upon a Kobe 36" hood. I'm actually vascilating between a 6" and a 9" undercabinet. I think we're going to have to do tile behind the stove as well (esp since we decided upon the island trim having been steered away from the easily burned taller trim).

I really look forward to your pictures!

Kym

Sounds like you may be settled on the DW but I'll chime in.

One big reason to go with the Miele is the cutlery tray. I was apprehensive about that as I thought it would be a PITA -- definitely not. It adds another, extremely handy rack that holds a ton.

Also, I have a slightly older model -- the 858 Incognito -- which is more or less equivalent to the Excella though it has salt well in bottom (we have whole house softener so ours was disabled) and no locks.

But it does use cold water fill -- all my cycles begin with a long cold water rinse. Makes them quite long. If I need a quicker wash I use china & crystal.

Otherwise, it goes on before we go to bed and it's done in the a.m.

The ecological issues are pretty much the same as Askos -- low water usage, machine heating water etc.

Re Hoods. Have you looked at the Vent A Hood? They are well regarded here and weren't mentioned.

Also, with a Blue Star or any powerful range, a tile or steel backsplash is definitely needed. Do read the Blue Star threads carefully as there have been past posts about scorching and heat issues that it may be helpful to anticipate in the planning.

Hi there,

We bought the Optima about a month ago and couldn't be happier. I decided on the miele after seeing a pic--I think it was the optima-- on this forum with a BOATLOAD of dishes piled in the bottom rack and the claim they all came out clean! I now put everything that will fit in the DW and haven't had trouble--and my kitchen clean up is noticeably faster.

I was looking for a short cycle as I think most DW cycles are too long and wasteful. THe optima has one but it doesn't dry--!--so I end up not using it.

I have had no trouble w/ putting vintage french plates in the optima. The plate racks really hold them in place.

2 things about kiddos and a DW (I have 2step and 2 of my own)-- 1st I wouldn't spend the extra money for the child lock. If they're tall enough to reach the DW controls they can learn it's a no-no...believe me this will save you so much time and money in the furture as well. Also on the optima you must push an "on " button before you can push a selection to start the cycle so it seems not that likely to just get started coincidentally.

decided agst the Asko due to reports of freq repairs altho there were those that claimed no repairs xyrs.

good luck deciding

lisa