Arg! This was suppose to be in conversations! Can it be moved? Sorry! The grill will go on the deck for cooking, but this in not a cooking topic!

Joanne

I've emailed them in the past and they moved my post; go to Letters and Comments on the bottom of the main page, and link to your thread.

I vote for the dark blocks!

I like the darker blocks too. They provide more of an anchor tp the house and deck colors.

Nancy

I vote for the dark.

I do like the darker block, but I just don't see it going with the house very well. It picks up the shutter color but doesn't seem to go with the body of the house. I just am having trouble seeing where the grey fits in.

Go with the dark - it relates to the shutters better, and darker colors give a more grounded feeling. When I was studying interior design we were taught that ceilings were supposed to be light, walls slightly darker, and floors the darkest because that made them recess and seem larger. I haven't followed that rule (since I put off-white linoleum in my kitchen), but it might help you decide.

The light colored blocks definitely do NOT go with your roof!

Lars

It's a shame you can't use a Natural Stone.
Tennessee Stione has all the colors you are talking about.
Even brighter.

I've used it for a lot of Dry Walls ( Retaining Walls )
Lou

Lou, what are your rates? I need a small retaining wall. And we could cook too!

Joanne, I vote for the dark too. I think the front of your house looks good as it is, though. I hope your beautiful tree won't have a highish circle around it like your neighbor's. Do you have to regrade because of drainage?

Well Joanne we wouldn't want to make this to easy for you, I like the lighter one! LOL I think retaining walls should provide a back drop to gardens, decks etc....they themselves should not be the feature.

The dark ones look "fake " to me and seem to be to prominent. The lighter ones resemble natural stone more.

Just in case you might consider other option, take a look at E. P. Henry's Coventry blocks in the color called "Dakota Blend." You can see them on their web site. We have a two-and-half-foot-high retaining wall at the front of our property, and I'm pretty satisfied with how it looks.

I also like the lighter.

Thanks everyone, I new I could count on y'all to voice your opinions! I also left blocks in front of the house and asked the neighbors to let me know what they like. So far all of the neighbors have voted for the light block. I like the colors of the dark block better, I'm just afraid they don't go very well with the house. And I don't want to overwhelm the plants. I can't believe that after going to over 12 different places, that if I want a flat front block that locks in place with a setback (gotta have that in IL, if you build straight up the frost heave could make it fall over), these two blocks are my only choices! I don't like the look of the blocks that are rounded on the front, not with all the curves we will have. And of course, we need a block with angled sides to make those curves easier, square cut blocks would require a lot of cutting. There is also our budget, with our son in college, we have anouther $100,000 tied up in tuition over the next four years, ouch!

Lars, we will probably be replacing the roof next year, maybe dark grey or black. Nothing goes with the color of our roof!

Lou, I checked out Tennessee Stone on-line, beautiful! But no one around here carries it! And I really do want something easy to work with, minumal cutting, and that will stay put through the upheaval in our nasty winters. We have brick now, I have to rebuild the retaining wall every year. I'm tired of doing that, I'm hoping the wall blocks with the locking system will stay put better. Price is also an issue. We will need over 200 linear feet of wall, that does not even take height into account. Most of the walls will be low, but a few spots will be a couple feet high.

Christine, those are nice looking blocks, but they appear to be square, not angled. We have a lot of curves on our beds, and although we do have a cement saw, we would rather not have to cut every block. There also are no distributors in our area (the largest range for the search is 100 miles). This has been a problem. When I looked on the internet, I found a lot of really nice blocks that are not available in our state.

We will make most of the walls low, I don't want to block my gardens and trees. The tree will have the same height wall as now, about 12". That is one of the reason so many blocks that lock had to be ruled out. Many of them are quite large (18" across, 12" deep and 8" high), and they are hollow so they need to be capped. Since you need to sink the first block at least 4" (or 1 full block with the ones we are using), you end up with too high a wall with one block partially sunk, a second block on top, then a capstone. I also don't really want to cap the walls since most of them will be so low, I think that can look a bit silly, although the caps look great on a higher wall (at least 18" high). I have looked at every landscape, hardscape, and home store within 20 miles of my house. Who would have thought it would be so hard to find rocks!

We have to regrade because we have terrible drainage issues. Or next door neighbors put in an in ground pool a couple years ago and raised the level of their yard several feet. It slopes right into my yard. One section has badly eroded, there is no grass left and most of the top soil is gone. We need to regrade, and drainage pipes, put in some drainage ditches along the property lines... sigh! It was not perfect before the pool, but it is terrible now.

Chase, neither one really looks that natural, but the only natural looking ones that come close to what we are looking for cost about 6 times the price with the delivery costs added in. That is a lot of money! I know I will have to live with my choice forever! but I can't bring myself to spend $10,000 on wall blocks. They sit outside and get rained on, snowed on, climbed on by the neighborhood kids (another reason we need blocks that lock in place!), animals... well I can guess what they do on the blocks! I want it to look good, but I can't justify spending an outrageous amount on these blocks. I have to admit I would rather pay an outrageous amount for some lovely new plants! When I get to that stage, I will ask you all about your experiences with shrubs.

Joanne

My first inclination was to say definitely the dark because they match your house. After reading Chase's argument and the fact that you may change your roof color which means you may change your shutter color I would definitely go with the light. No way would I spend $10,000 on a wall either!

j:
The Tennessee Stone would probably be Double in price.
Your right, it's not too easy to find.
Some of the Landscape Supplies have it in stock.

I'm glad I had all the Natural Stone for my retaining walls and
Face Stone for the front of the house.

Everytime some was dug up, I piled it out back, until I was ready.
Must have about 300 running feet, some parts are 2 1/2 feet high and 2 ft. deep.

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{{gwi:1446118}}The Pond is about 3 feet above the lawn and
the Waterfall is another 6 feet above the Pond.
One Stone on the side is about 4' X 6' X 1 1/12' thick.

This was one of my bigger projects.
LOU

Wow Lou! That is absolutely gorgeous! If you lived near me I'd beg you to do my landscaping! Mind you, my BIL would be very unhappy about that since our landscape is his baby. He built the deck in the second picture last summer with the help of his good buddy. His buddy has a degree in horticulture and does landscape work on the side so he is in charge of this summers project. I love the pond, and the frog is just adorable! I can't wait to get to the point where I can start adding those little personal touches.

I can't believe the Tennesee Stone doesn't cost more than double the blocks we are looking at. I can get these for $4.17 per cubic foot, another place was selling it for $5.39 cf. And only $50 delivery. That does not include all the sand and gravel for the base of course, only the blocks. Other blocks were up to $15.00 cf, and some of the delivery charges were astronomical. One place wanted to charge $50 plus $50 per pallet, with only 90 blocks per pallet. Delivery would have cost a few hundred dollars, and the place is about 3 miles from our house! I'm not even sure if that was just to drop the blocks on the driveway or if they were going to stack them where I wanted them, I kind of went into shock when I heard that. It would be cheaper to rent a pick up and haul them ourselves!

Joanne

A little late to the conversation, but I like the lighter stones as well. They're more natural looking to my eye.

I know what you mean about the frost heaves!! I'm in New England and we have to build a small stone wall to surround a new vegetable garden I'm putting in. It's only going to be about 2 blocks high, maybe three high on one side, and it's so much work digging the trench, filling with gravel, leveling, placing the stone - sometimes I wish I lived somethere flat and frost-free!!

And we paid $11,000 for our front retaining wall and stairs and $12,000 for the stone wall we had to have put up in order to level an area in the back yard for an above-ground pool! Sometimes I think it would have been cheaper to put an inground pool in for what we paid. And cleaning out my flower beds this weekend I noticed that the edging is starting to "float" above the ground as the soil is being washed away downhill.

I need a good $100,000 to rebuild all my stone walls, regrade, and landscape, but that ain't happening in this life, so we'll just keep doing what we can, where we can ourselves, but it's a constant battle with erosion and retaining walls when you live on a hill!

I really hate living on a hill sometimes!!

Lisa

Lighter Prarie Blend...keep in mind they will darken over time...the color palette of your house is warm and that gray is cool. Good Luck

Lisa, the cost is why we are doing this ourselves, by ourselves I mean my BIL and his friend are doing most of the work ! ;-) At least living on a slope we don't get too much water in the basement, it generally runs downhill to a retention pond.

We need to decide on the block by this weekend, and we are leaning toward the lighter blocks now. I think the colors are prettier in the dark block, but they are soooo dark! I think the lighter blocks will look more natural as they fade over time. And I don't want to upstage my plants! I think the green of my sedum (ground cover) will look better hanging down the lighter blocks. Sigh, this is much harder than choosing a color to repaint a room in the house!

We will be using some natural stone in parts of the landscape, river rock and some small rocks (about 6 to 8 inches across) to help with drainage and to prevent erosion, and those will probably go better with the lighter stone. Mulch won't work in some spots, the force of the water washes it away!

Joanne

Joanne, I think that is a wise choice....mostly 'cause it's what I would do! LOL

Seriously , it just all depends on what you want the focal point to be. If you want the wall to be the focal point, then the darker is better. If you want the gardens, house and deck to be focal points then mute the wall with the lighter colours.

Thank you for moving this!

Chase, I definitely want the plants, and the deck in back, to be the focal point. The point of the wall is to keep soil from eroding, and hold the mulch, and more aggressive plants, in place!

Joanne

I hope I'm not too late! (I just saw this.)

One of the mistakes homeowners make with their landscaping is to try too hard to make everything match, which is why I'm not surprised your neighbors are voting for the lighter blocks. (It's a common problem, but you don't have to go along with it!) The darker blocks will definitely anchor your plant materials, and looks more natural in the process, especially if you stain your deck the darker color. The point (I think) is for the wall to disappear, so your landscaping is the star...unless of course you want everyone to see how much $$ you spent on your blocks!

The darker blocks are a nice contrast to what's around it, especially to the color of your home. One thing I've learned about the landscaping process is that often, your first choices are often your best ones. Unless you were to upgrade your materials and go with natural wall cut stone, which would have more variety in the coloration, That's My Story and I'm stickin' to it...

Joanne, here's some food for thought on how you might save some $$. I teach horticulture, and one of the things I would warn you about is putting a heavy layer of soil and mulch built up around trees. Trees actually have most of their root system right at the surface of the ground, and it spreads out far and wide. These are the feeding roots that provide the nutrients and water for the tree, plus they need oxygen to survive. When you cover these roots with a deep layer of soil or mulch, you smoother these roots and stress the tree. It could die if the conditions are right (lots of drought, a disease gets into the tree, etc.) Also, heavy mulch against the trunk and surface roots of the tree can vector diseases and insects into the tree. I would opt for a light mulch around the trees with just an angle cut of the sod to demark the line between the yard and the tree zone. I know people love the look of pavers around trees, so I don't want to sound too preachy, but it would be a way to save some money and the tree will be happier that way.

Just my .02

We are not planning to build up around the tree in the picture. There is already a "retaining wall" of brick around the tree and the new wall will be similar in height. The area is already planted and we will expand the bed around the tree a bit to give it more room, and add more mulch as we do each year. We will need to built the ground up around some of the trees in the back since the soil has eroded leaving six inch high roots completely exposed in some areas, which I am concerned will not be good for the trees. We have put a lot of effort, and money, into keeping our trees healthy. A number of them have been damaged by high winds or lightning during storms but we have been lucky not to lose one yet. I am planning to raise the soil a good 12 inches around the maple you can just see next to the deck, it is in one of the areas that has washed out the worst. I hope this won't hurt it! My BIL's friend has a degree in horticulture, and I'm sure he will tell me not to do something that will damage my trees. At least I hope he will tell me! I'm not planning to build one of those 2 foot high rings people sometimes put around trees and fill them with soil and mulch. I don't like that. The wall will just be high enough to retain the topsoil and mulch. I'm tired if raking the mulch out of my lawn, or getting pelted with wood shards by my lawnmower when I don't rake the mulch back into the beds!

Hmm, now that I think about it, it might not be a bad idea to consult with my tree service to make sure I don't do anything to damage the trees. The man who takes care of my trees is a real pro, and an artist. He carefully shapes the trees branch by branch so they are not only healthy, but look their best.

Joanne

I'm late too, but I'm agreeing with Lars and Claire - the dark.

I like contrast.

No one is too late yet! I don't have to decide until Sunday the 12th! Although the answers here are as conflicted as my own thoughts, LOL! I almost hope Jimmy will come out this weekend and say, oh, you don't want that block, go with this one! That would make my life easier! I think the real problem is that either block would work, they would just give a different look to the landscapimg, and I'm not sure which look I like better! I would put photoshopped pictures on with the two blocks, but I don't have photoshop (my son does, but he and his computer are 250 miles away). I have a cheap program I used to print some pictures out, but I could not save them. Maybe I can scan them in somehow? I'm going to try to figure this out!

Joanne

One other consideration that might factor in..
What color is your soil. I know, sounds like a dumb question, but if you have deep, rich, dark soil and the rains caused it to splash up on the lighter brick, it's going to stain. On the other hand, if you have red clay, it's going to stain the darker brick.

FWIW, I'm voting for the dark one! I like the contrast.

Deanna

It's not mulch per se that is bad, it's just the application. Nothing wrong with using pavers as an edging either, if done with care. It's just a taste and lifestyle thing, and I thought it might be a way to save some money on edging if you wanted to. But if you like the look go for it. I don't like trimming around brick edging, but then I hate maintaining a shovel edge too. I kinda have bed border issues, lol! Cooperative Extensions have tons of good info on tree mulching. Here's the resources I used for my class.

University of Minnesota Sustainable Urban Landscape Information Series, Planting Under Existing Trees, www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG8237.html

University of Minnesota Extension - Planting Under Trees, (a really groovy PowerPoint which starts out with some stuff about mulching and then has some great pics of ideas on planting and edging)http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG8237.html

Here are a couple of others from Extensions, just about mulching

NC State University Extension, Tree and Shrub Mulching www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/trees-new/text/muching.html

University of Vermont Extension - Proper Application of Mulch Around Trees and Shrubs www.uvm.edu/~uvmext/programs/home/gardening/downloads/oh78.pdf

USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service, Mulching www.nrcs.usda.gov/FEATURE/backyard/mulching.html

Oh Joanne I forgot to say that your tree is really gorgeous. I have tree and shade envy. My tiny urban front yard is kinda too small for any trees, especially a big beautiful one like yours. Is it a locust or ash maybe? There are lots of honey locusts in my neighborhood just up the street. Such a nice patio tree.

I really feel your pain on the paver choice. I went through the same thing with my pack patio. It was tough to make a choice I liked in my price range. I wanted a mixed color brick but I had to go with a solid.

The tree is a honey locust, we have another in back. The tree to the right is a crabapple, with a second in the back also. We have two maples in the back as well. The honey locust in the back is one of the trees with exposed roots. We lost about 1/4 of that tree in a storm back in '98, but our tree man was able to not only save it, but reshape it over time so you can't even tell it was damaged. The crabapple in the front was damaged in '05, about 1/3 of the tree was lost to storm damage. Again, he was able to save it and reshape it so the damage is not obvious.

I think it is funny (in an ironic way) that you had to go with a solid paver when you wanted a mix, and I will have to go with a mixed block when I want a solid. I can't believe how hard it is to find what you want, at an affordable price.

Joanne

I'm voting for the natural/lighter one. I just like it better and it looks like the real thing to me.

David

I vote for the lighter block - I think it will look more natural and blend better.
The darker one does look good with your shutters, but changing the color of shutters is an easy inexpensive update when you want to freshen the exterior. I'm not suggesting that you need to or should - choosing the lighter block will allow you that opportunity to do so if you wanted.
You also have to consider how the block looks in the winter landscape.

Joanne:
I don't have a degree in anything but I have done aa lot of Landscaping, along with building.

I have Mulched around trees many times but very little at a time.
Even top soil, I only add about 1 inch at a time in periods of a couple months.

In my back I put a little mulch around trees but planted Pachysandra.
Now all I have to do is keep the Deer away.

If you us a little Common Sense and get info like you are doing, you will be OK !

As for the color of the Stone , why don't you get some from your supplier and do different parts ,then get back and Look to see what you like best.
Before you buy all of it.

Just tell the supplier you will bring back the Stone you don't want.

I did buy a couple of each, but that is really not enough to tell how it will look. That is a good idea, I should get several more of each block and build a little "wall" with each to get a better idea. I already know I can return the ones I don't want.

Joanne

Joanne:
By Jove !!! I knew you could do it .
Lou

So I took Lou's advice and got a few more of each block so I could build a small wal, my next door neighbors son had fun helping me move the blocks and build the walls. The only real problem is that, just as I suspected, they both look good, just in a different way. I think the dark blends better with the landscaping, but the lighter ones will probably look better over the years. I think the white stains from salt deposits leaching will be much more obvious over time with the dark blocks.

Here are the pictures of the dark and light blocks in front of the house, by the tree, and by the deck. I'm going to leave them in place today and keep looking at them.

Joanne

I'm with Claire I prefer the contrast of the darker block too. Especially if your grass is green [not that blue hue]. I also think it will balance nicely when you do the roof in charcoal.

Are you going to do concrete pavers around all your flower beds? That will be cool!
OK, this is just my .o2 and what do I know, but here it is. If you choose the lighter block, it blends better with the house colors and doesn't contrast as much with the color of the deck. With that one, it seems to me, the emphasis will be on the plants in the beds, because then they will have the contrasting colors. If you pick the darker, grey/red blocks, the emphasis will be on the edging--the shape of the beds and the shape of the deck. No right or wrong call on that, just whatever look you prefer.

I think most are missing the fact that the poster is going to stain the deck quite a bit darker than it is now. The light blocks might be fine if the deck were to stay light as well, but it's going to change. You can't begin to see what that's going to look like until you add a stained plank to your combination. Basically, you're missing a vital visual piece of the puzzle.

You'll be able to see where your edging is in the dark if you go with the white which might be the best thing going for it. There's nothing about those blocks that looks the least bit natural IMO, unless of course you live in limestone country.

Mineral deposits will show up on the white block as well, not to mention soil. Is your water so hard that this is really something to consider?

Did you say you have red brick somewhere else on the property? Your house? (I forget...) If that is the case, at least the red blocks would have some relevance to the mix.

You're going to have a dark(er) roof, the body of the house will be a medium/light color (with contrasting accents/shutters), the deck a medium tone, and the base is going to be light. This seems bass-ackwards to me for balance, from any kind of design standpoint when considering colors. (Refer to Lars point above, which was well-made.)

Here's another thought...you could stain those light colored blocks a deeper tan/brown/putty color with concrete stain, since you're not in love with either color. It would be more work, but you might end up liking the finished beds a little more and they won't look like everyone else. Think about what color your roof is going to be and seriously consider going with something to complement it. My feeling is you don't know which one to pick because neither one are quite right, and its a lot of $ to spent on something that just doesn't say exactly what you want it to. Your roof will be the most money you spend on your house unless you add an addition. Doesn't it make more sense to see what color that's going to be before adding another element like a block wall that's going to cost a fraction of your roof? Since neither block is very natural looking, why not pick a color that is? Pick what you really like. You'll only want to move those stones once!

Here's another pond picture. It's a little clogged with plant material as I took the picture at the end of summer...

All the rocks were hand-picked on weekends for years, which took much too long, but I think we achieved a natural look. At least the herons who come to eat our fish seem to think so. Most of them are limestone (as is the stone on our house), with some darker stone mixed in for a natural contrast. The stones at the end are wet from the waterfall.

Oh, I love your pond! My husband told me no pond, no waterfall, no water. Bad husband! The deck will not be overly dark, my hubby wants it the color of when it is wet, and the stain we are using (ReadySeal Semi-Transparent Stain and Sealer in light brown) mimics that perfectly. Here is a picture of the deck wet after a rainstorm. We have to wait for the temps to rise a bit before doing the sealing. I'll sandwich the deck between the light and dark block pictures to make looking at them easier. I think tomorrow I will have my hubby bring the hose out of storage and water down the deck so we can get a better idea how it will look with the blocks after being stained. He should be receptive to any suggestion right now, I spent 3 hours today shoveling clay with help from my neighbor's son. That was suppose to be his job. The dirt was from the new cedar fence we had installed yesterday.

I did find a block I like better. The retaining walls will cost about $2,000 with all needed materials with these blocks, they would cost $10,000 with all needed materials with the other blocks. We can use these blocks and replace the roof for the same price as the better blocks! After building those walls like Lou brilliantly suggested, I personally think I am starting to lean toward the dark block, they look less intrusive. I need to see what kind of mulch Jimmy reccomemds to how that would tie in. If we do cedar mulch it would be a huge contrast next to the dark blocks when fresh, but it would blend better after it aged.

Joanne

Oh, Good! I'm so happy you found something else you like better. A Good Price always helps. Good luck with your project. I'd love to see how it turns out when you get there!

Joanne, I think you are absolutely on track by getting all of the elements together to see what looks best. I took AGES to pick the paint color in my guest bedroom. The reason I was so cautious that time was I picked the color for the back bedroom just by looking at paint chips against the wall, in natural daylight and at night with the electric lights. The color didn't end up being ANYTHING like I expected when painted all over the walls. And it didn't go with the other pieces in the room like I thought it would. Plus looked different because I had to paint the trim too, (the PO's son had painted the trim in that room hyperlink blue!).

With the guest room, the wall color looked great. Then, I had the floor sanded and refinished, and the floor color ended up being totally different than it had been before, throwing the look of the walls off again, as they looked different contrasted against the different floor color.

I'd get something approximating what you think the new roof color will be, and yes, try to find something approximating the mulch color. Will you be using the same type of mulch as you have now?

If you're going to make a big investment in this block, don't feel guilty about really taking your time. Also don't feel guilty about looking some more. In that guest bedroom story above, I looked at paint swatches from five different companies. The brick that I hate in my backyard patio just came from the one company my landscape designer worked with. I was overwhelmed by the brick issue so I let her make all the decisions for me, something that was a mistake because she wasn't really going all out to find the best options. Mine was a small job so I'm sure it wasn't worth the trouble to her to spend time searching for the perfect patio block for me. She just basically said take it or leave it and I had already invested time and money in her so I didn't want to throw a wrench in the machine, but now I am stuck with something I don't like, that cost 4K so I am pretty much stuck with it forever. I will not be able to justify tearing that out when I have so many other big ticket items in my house that need attention. If this is a once in a lifetime do-over for your yard, you have a right to take as much time as you need!!

I think I generally am just very cautious about making decisions (my husband thinks I over think things). When I redecorated the livingroom, I spent six months looking at every available paint swatch that was in the color family I wanted. I spent a year planning the makeover of the kitchen (I never did get the lighting done yet), but that is a bit pricey so you need to be careful. I'm determined to make the decision by tomorrow. I am going to stop back in the stores today that had anything close to what I want, and water down the deck, and move the blocks around to some other locations to check the lighting. Busy weekend!

Joanne

Another vote for DARK! I think the light ones are much too close to the color of the house, and don't give enough pop. Not to mention that I think the darker ones are a little more earthy looking, which I think works better for pavers that will be surrounding plants...

Good luck choosing and can't wait to see the pictures of it all finished!

Alrighty, we made the decision. We are going to go with the dark blocks. We talked about everything else we might want to do on the house in the future and decided those would work best. We will need to replace the roof and gutters in the next couple years, and my hubby would like to redo the siding at some point in the future. He is adamant that when we replace the siding he wants pale grey. Fine with me! Then I will choose a charcoal grey roof , leave the shutters and door burgandy, and that should tie everything together! Yeah! Once we get done (only the good Lord knows how long this will take) I'll post pictures. I do already have the garden around the deck planned, as well as the shade gardens for under the trees in the back yard. I still have to decide the front gardens. Flowers are soooo much easier than blocks, maybe because I like them better!

Several neighbors have asked me recently when we will be having our deck warming party! I told everyone after the deck is sealed, unless the want water and cookies. We're not bringing anything onto the deck that could stain it until after it is sealed. That way we should be able to clean up any spills without serious damage. I might need some recipes. Maybe I could make Shaun's adorable bunny cupcakes!

Joanne

Joanne:
I stayed out of this for a while, til you decided.
Think I'm a dummy ?????

Now that you decided on the Dark , I like your chioce.

I think the light Stone looked too much like a cement color.

If the Dark Stone get stained, just pull out the Power Washer.
I do the natural stone every 2 years.
The discoloration is not that apparent, until you start cleaning.

Here is an example. This is after 5 years.
It don't take that long to clean!!!

Good Luck with your wall. Glad I could be of help.
Lou

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