It's all about the corporate bottom line. I would LIKE to see sanctions put in place for this behavior, but it seems like what Wall Street wants, Wall Street gets. So, since the bankers and other corporate lobbyists are in charge, I don't see Congress getting tough on them. They can't even oversee the banking and credit card businesses, obviously.

Linda...it's all about the bottom line....workers in China and India work for pennies on the dollar compared to our workers...
Would you WANT a government that told manufacturers who they could hire and who they couldn't hire?
There are of course sanctions that could be imposed in the form of tariffs.

While it is all about the corporate bottom line, it doesn't come out of nowhere... In a recession, as people have less income to spend, they look for better deals and cheaper prices. One way that companies are able to *provide* better deals and cheaper prices is by outsourcing... Creating more Americans out of work, forced to look for... better deals and cheaper prices. A vicious circle.

Well before the recession, U.S. buyers made it clear that they want cheap and disposable, part of the reason entire industries, like furniture, have mostly disappeared from this country or are outsourcing.

They were talking on NPR about the best jobs for the future. I didn't catch the whole story but the gist of it was that the best jobs are the ones which CAN'T be outsourced to other countries. Nursing was at the top of the list.

I guess these are the times we live in. People who do jobs that can be done in other countries are going to lose their jobs and I'm sure this is not the end of it. It's unfortunate.

Any restricitions that the goverment would try to put in place to keep jobs in the US would be met with a hue and cry about the government getting too involved in private business matters. Lobbyists have more power than we want to admit, and so if the businesses who employ the lobbyists don't want those measure, they won't happen.

And, as others have said, it's about the bottom line. We demand cheap prices on goods. At the same time, we want workers to make a living wage. A company that makes widgets for the Dollar Store or Everything .99 has to sell more widgets than the market could bear in order to pay US workers a living wage, so they manufacture where labor, land, and taxes are far less expensive.

It's going to get interesting now that the countries that have traditionally taken over our manufacturing (China, Mexico, etc.) are now growing their own middle class who demands cheap goods and decent wages.

I might be a bit pessimistic, living in the Detroit Metro Area which has been in a recession for about 10 years now and down right Depression in the last 4-5 years. Although I am in the suburbs of Detroit the city itself has an unemployment rate of 25-30 percent! I am not joking. Which means of course that 250K people are on government assistance. The schools don't produce anyone who can read over a 5th grade level at HIGH SCHOOL! No, it is not just the teachers, some of it is of course..but the parents and a life of living in poverty and sucking on the government tit and selling and using drugs is easier than trying to get ahead the normal way. Okay, I might be off topic here....but that is the damn truth in the inner city.

As far as unemployment goes in the rest of the area and country, well....you hit it on the head...it's a vicious circle. The people who have crappy jobs can only afford so much, so they look to low priced products..made mostly in China. Things made in America are very few. Because we want to pay our people the money it takes to live....and to do so, what with government sanctions...unemployment insurance, so-so security, fed, state and local taxes etc. etc. have to charge a damn sight more than the products coming from China or Taiwan...where they can make kids slave away 16 hours a day for 1.00 an hour.

I hate to say it, but greed from multiple sources has soured our countrys' ability to do what we need to do. I see a greater and greater division of wealth and poverty and the disappearance of the middle class spells disaster in the years ahead. I don't have answers..but we HAVE TO MAKE THINGS IN THIS COUNTRY AND HAVE POEPLE WHO HAVE JOBS WHO CAN AFFORD TO BUY THEM!

Adding service jobs like waitresses and Wally World employees is not going to be the answer to buying cars, homes and the things we need to keep this country going in the right direction. The debt our country is racking up to China and other countries does not bode well for our future. Sorry to say.

Duane

Maybe this is political, but it is a sad state of affairs when the future of your economy is going to be based on taking care of sick and old people. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think that is a VERY sad statement about the solutions being offered up by our leaders. Try being out of work for THREE YEARS Linda! Not that I'm not working, but that's how long I have been looking for a full time job. I don't know if I will EVER find one again.

Lots of people don't like protectionary measures like tarrifs, they believe in the benefits of free trade. I frankly believe people CAN vote SOMEWHAT, (and only somewhat) with their pocketbooks, so I try and develop relationships with small local businesses and tradespeople. Not always possible, but if you are creative, more possible than you would think. I firmly believe that the only way out of this is for people to form new and unique networks and collaborations for the selling of services and goods. The mainstream is just going to support the "status quo" which the other posters have mentioned.

Or something, I don't know. An interesting book written 15 years ago or so is called, "What Are People For?" by Wendell Berry. But he's a pretty philosophical and radical guy, like Jerimiah! Anyway, I have heard other people talking about this concept with regards to agriculture, about how people can create alternative economic relationships that counteract the mainstream. A CSA is an example of this, (Community Supported Agriculture). That's an alternative to the increasing trend of more and more food coming from overseas.
This is not going to help me much since my field is education. It is just getting too expensive to educate formally nowdays. I cannot tell you how many professionals I know who are just cobbling by nowdays, and they don't show up on unemployment statistics. But I see them in the adjuct faculty lounge where I live. Just last month I was talking to a "semi-retired" journalist who used to be an editor for the local paper. He says the newspaper industry is dead and soon journalism will be dead as a profession too. We talked about what the alternatives might be. Kind of hard to say, but again, not necessarily promising for the future.

Anyway, people were creative back in Depression times too. My mom said she paid for her piano lessons in eggs. I'm sure some of that bartering kind of stuff will come back too. But still, for me, all of that is still not quite enough to pay the bills. But I do think we are in for some RADICAL changes. Anyone who thinks differently is in denial, IMHO. But I think even though it will be radical, it will be gradual. The industrial revolution didn't happen in a day, and this one won't either. I think it is possible that the next revolution will be the BIOLOGICAL revolution. I think science and engineering will have a LOT to do with it. Like for example, yesterday I was talking to a guy who I am hiring to do some carpentry work at my house, and he showed me this new little lead testing kit that is out on the market that can EASILY test for lead paint. Whomever developed that little gem is going to make a lot of money. Biotech and environmental engineering are going to be HUGE in the future, IMHO. But again, that doesn't help me, I've no mind for math, and Lord knows I've tried!

I am not being simplistic because I know the world we are now living is has changed drastically. Thankfully (I think) I am retired and don't have to worry about finding a job. That said, my fixed income may not be nearly enough in the next few years. This area is the least depressed in the US because of the military base and because several new military commands have moved here recently and several more to come. When new military bases arrive the technical and engineering jobs with private companies increase greatly also. I'm saying this to tell you that Huntsville has been named in the first five places that poeple would want to work and play for quiet a while now and if you don't mind moving you can most likely find a job here.

Well, Beverly, I really appreciate that, but moving is not an option for us, I'm afraid. Not that I wouldn't like your mild climate after last weeks winter weather! LOL

I just can't help but wonder how this country got so screwed up! And, of course how in the world we can fix it....

Linda

Moving wouldn't be an option for me either. I suppose it isn't for most folks.

I'm sure it was much colder where you live last week, but it definitely was not mild here. Snow and lows in the single digits. We've had below zero temps many times, just not for that many days in a row.

We have to depend on our politicians in Washington to "fix" everything and they are all corrupt so things will probably never be any better I'm sorry to say.

Good luck with the job hunting. Hope you get something soon.

Beverly

IMO, the first thing we have to do is not think that it's someone else's responsibility to do something about it or that there is a magic bullet that will fix everything. The biggest impacts are going to be made by individuals making small changes in their priorities and actions. We can't let ourselves be overwhelmed with the hugeness of the problem, but instead have to look at it one decision at a time. One person can't change the world, but we can each definitely affect our little part of it. That's what grassroot changes are about, each person affecting their immediate environment or circle of influence. Chances are, it's going to cost you something, either in time, dollars or energy, but anything worth having does require something in return.

Linda, jobs are scarce...but there are SOME out there. Want-ads are pretty much a thing of the past. Anything (mostly) in there is something pretty bad I have found. The best way to get a job is network, network, network. I'm sure you have done all this but it bears repeating. Let everyone you know you are looking for a job and your qualifications. Call old friends to talk and mention somewhere in the conversation you are job hunting. Every day somebody moves, dies, retires, gets fired or promoted. Yesterday's closed doors may be today's opportunity. Stay positive and keep your eyes and ears open to everything. Sometimes odd things happen which turn into blessings.

Duane

If you are looking for immediate short term employment, you might check with the Census Bureau in your state/County. With the Census this year, many of the positions are paying $13 - $15 per hour. No, that isn't a lot and I do not believe there are health insurance benefits, but if you are trying to make a little money short term until you find something better, it may work for you.

Good luck!

Alexa

Furniture is still being made in this country, and I work for such a company. We are not outsourcing that much either, and in fact the glass we used to get from France and Italy we now get much more cheaply from New Jersey. We do have an AutoCAD draftsman in the Philippines who helps us from time to time, but that is definitely not a full time job. I sometimes have him convert chair drawings into frame drawings that we can send to workrooms in the Los Angeles area. One of the reasons we can manufacture here is the supply of cheap immigrant labor mostly from Mexico. Our furniture is extremely high end, and therefore our customers tend to be the super rich, who seem to still be getting even richer. This seems to be a somewhat recession-proof market, although business was slower than usual in 2008 and even slower in 2009. We are part of a trickle down economy, in that we manufacture a luxury item, which gives jobs to lower income people who are then able to buy non-luxury items. I've always felt bad about having to rely on the super wealthy for my employment, but this has been the case for most of my working life. While that market is rather small, it is still significant and something to consider.

Lars

Renee, I agree. Remember the "think globally, act locally" phrase?

There have been times in my life when I didn't have an extra nickel, so I understand that corners must be cut and sacrifices made. However, I paid the extra $2 for the glass 9x13 pan made in New York instead of the cheaper one made in China. I'll eat some extra beans and use the store brand dish soap and make it up.

I've reached a point in my life where I don't want very much and I have enough "things". I hate to shop but if I need an item I'll shop around and see if I can get something made here, and if I need "technical support" and I get someone who doesn't speak English I complain to the company and then I try to find a product who has customer service here. I can't always, but I try.

I also try to balance that attitude with an environmental issue. I'll buy something from Canada before I'll buy something from Brazil or China or where ever because it takes far fewer resources to ship that item from Canada than it does from halfway around the world.

I'll buy Lodge Enameled Cast Iron (made in the U.S.) instead of Le Crueset (made in France), but I bought Spode dishes, Made in England, instead of cheaper ones made in China.

It's all a balancing act but if we are going to complain we have to be willing to take some responsibility and each of us has to do what we can.

As Will Rogers said "It's a great country, but you can't live in it for nothing". So I'll skip the bananas in February and eat a Michigan potato for my potassium, it has more than a banana anyway.

Oh wait, I HATE bananas, so that's probably not really much of a sacrifice...

Annie

"Posted by dukerdawg ---------I might be a bit pessimistic, living in the Detroit Metro Area which has been in a recession for about 10 years now and down right Depression in the last 4-5 years. Although I am in the suburbs of Detroit the city itself has an unemployment rate of 25-30 percent! -----"

Duane, no one should be pessimistic. Everyone should be panicking .
If it werent for China having bought 1 million US cars last year, the auto industry would have been history. But are they still going to buy US cars? This year China has just out manufactured US as the biggest producer of cars.

dcarch

(Annie, I think Lodge Enameled Cast iron IS made in China.....but the regular stuff is made here)

"Made to our exact specifications in China, Lodge Enamel Cast Iron is cast from molten iron in individual sand molds. The cast iron piece is hand prepared before several layers of porcelain enamel are applied and baked in high temperature ovens. "

Practically NOTHING is manufactured in the US anymore. And I know full well that factories move to countries that have low production costs because the are not democratic that have terrible working condiions and anyone who complains gets thrown in jail. Also terrible environmental conditions and health conditions. And these countries don't necessarily buy any of our goods in return. Which BTW, what ARE the goods that the US sells anymore? It doesn't bode well for your society, IMHO, if your goods and services consist almost exclusively of caring for sick people, stuff for fighting wars, and gambling.

I think people are going to start having to participate more actively in creating the new economy if we don't want to get screwed. We will have to get together and pool our resources to come up with new an innovative ways of providing goods and services. Coops and small corporations are one way. CSA's are an example of this. I don't know what all the solutions are, but business as usual, which is what the people in power want of course, just aint cutting it in the long run. I think we have to create some new institutions and new kinds of businesses. I don't know what they will be, but I have a certain amount of faith that Americans are creative people. It will take time though. I've got my thinking cap on, that's for sure.

Is there a list or a website that one can peruse which would tell us which companies outsource and what stuff is TRULY made in the USA?

i know it is not feasible to boycott every company that outsources to impoverished countries, but it would be nice to have a resource to at least TRY to only do business with those that do not.

Linda

I bet if there were a site like that, ever corproation not on it would have their IT dept resident cyber-sleuth trying to block or disable it.

If I were a betting woman, I'd say less than 80% of hard goods what we use on a frequent basis is made in the USA.

Several years ago now, when the family went on a cruise, I was talking to one of the waiters, and he told me he used to work in a foundry. I can't remember where he was from, he was Asian, but not from China. Like maybe Indonesia or the Phillipenes. But anyway, his factory had closed down, in fact that whole industry had closed down in his country. Same here, there was a big foundry in my hometown all the while I was growing up and it was a major employer for generations. Now a vacant lot. This poor guy on the ship was away from his family for months and months. But his job was secure, waiting on wealthy people (at least relatively wealthy compared to people in his country). It was just a matter of time before his problems became my problems. The working class is the foundation of your society. It's also the first rung on the ladder for moving up. When they are squeezed, things get dysfunctional. This fact cannot be ignored forever. I have no magic bullet answer though. I think it took a long time to dig ourselves into this hole so a long time to dig out. People have been commenting for more than a decade about the squeeze on the middle class and the exit of jobs overseas. I am old enough to remember the "giant sucking sound" NAFTA campaign comment, lol! But we were told not to worry, that free trade would mean MORE jobs here in the US. Come again?

" Posted by beanthere_dunthat --------IMO, the first thing we have to do is not think that it's someone else's responsibility to do something about it or that there is a magic bullet that will fix everything. The biggest impacts are going to be made by individuals making small changes in their priorities and actions. ----------------------------- Chances are, it's going to cost you something, either in time, dollars or energy, but anything worth having does require something in return."

There is the answer to most of our problems. We have been living in an irresponsible fantasy. Our dream world is now a nightmare.

The thing to do is to accept the fact that THE GOOD OLD DAYS ARE GONE FOREVER. Yes, the math is simple, forever.
Our generation has to be the most unethical and depraved generation. We stole and still keep on stealing from our next generation of their future because they cannot vote. How can we feel comfortable that we have spent $12,269,270,519,185.52 of their money? Thats a debt of $39,877.96 for each infant, adult, senior citizen, handicapped, etc. in this country.

The competitive race in this world economy is very challenging, with this burden, how do you expect to come out ahead running with a hundred pound iron chained to your ankle?

Its is such a crime to borrow money to build highways to nowhere, to trash good car to "stimulate the economy".
If we are going to borrow money, we should use the money to fund education. We rank number 20 in quality of education. We should use the money to train engineers not more lawyers. We graduate 70,000 engineers per year, while India produces 350,000 and China 600,000. Do you see what is in the future for us?

Have you seem the $40 billion Olympic opening show by China? Whats the message there? And how long do you think North Korea and a few other countries will start out "cheap" the Chinese?

dcarch (a.k.a. Chicken Little)

lpink, next time you're at the library, there's a book called "The Value of Nothing". You might find it an interesting read.

Dcarch, OK, you've vented. Now what are you doing about it? What are you willing to do to change things? It's a valid question we all need to ask ourselves.

"--------Dcarch, OK, you've vented. Now what are you doing about it? What are you willing to do to change things? It's a valid question we all need to ask ourselves. "

It is not venting what I have said above. It is just stating factual information that everyone is ignoring or escaping reality.

What am I doing about it? Personally, during the day in my regular profession, I work hard, I work seven days. I am responsible for more than my share of productivity in this country. After hours I have many other activities, including a volunteer position as the JobBank Director for an organization to help people find work. I am very in touch with the pain of unemployment.

What am I willing to do to change things? Whatever I do, whoever I work with, just like my involvement with this Cooking Forum, I try to promote excellence, creativity, innovation, self reliance, and perhaps cooperation. It is one mans effort I realize, but as you have so succinctly put it, "---The biggest impacts are going to be made by individuals making small changes in their priorities and actions.---".

dcarch

Well, now see? It's good to think about what does and can do, especially if one feels such satisfaction in it.
Many people, especially those who've never had to worry about making ends meet, seem just to want to complain, but go into a self-defensive posturing at even the suggestion of actually doing anything inconvenient to their way of life.

Not that it matters -- to me, at least - but I don't agree with you about the "good old days" or the need to panic. I think the "good old days" is the most treasured myth of every generation and a complete fairy tale. And panic never helped any situation.

Not that it matters -- to me, at least - but I don't agree with you about the "good old days" or the need to panic. I think the "good old days" is the most treasured myth of every generation and a completel fairy tale. And panic never helped any situation.

Ok, that's weird. I did not type that twice.