Secure row covers can definitely work (secure being the operative word!), I use this on a small scale for rocket grown in tubs. It just depends on your situation - in my in-ground garden I intermingle my broccoli, kale, pak choy etc with flowers and other veg, so I don't have large blocks of brassicas that suit row covers, so I use Bt there. Also, I like to be able to give the plants a quick check without having to open up the row cover. The horticultural fleece I have is quite opaque, as is the insect mesh. One thing that I find reduces pest pressure from the Cabbage Whites is planting nasturtiums near the brassicas. I use the climbing ones and run them up trellises or over a fence so they don't take up too much space. The Cabbage Butterflies seem to prefer them. Plus the leaves and flowers are edible, they look pretty and have a nice fresh smell to them.

Jenny, I have seeds for Digtalis parviflor - Chocolate; red milkweed; and Muscari - Dark Eyes. I can also send you some rosemary cuttings. I don't know the variety, I got it from my Mother-in-law's yard. It is big and really fragrant. I also have a couple of rooted lemon balms, if you are interested in those. From your list, I am interested in skullcap, cerinthe major blue kiwi, and your White lavender. Please take a look at my list and see if there is anything else we can throw into this trade. Ellie aphroditelaughs

I wish I would have known how much fun they are to have around. I would have had them sooner. Not over feeding them grain is important. You can kill them with kindness...and they are pretty convincing when they tell you they are starving. I have a dozen goats of various breeds and ages and mine free range with no problem. They are a friendly group and the first few weeks I stayed with them and walked with them where they were allowed to be. Now they have their own routine. I still need to walk out back with them to get them out of the barn, but once they start eating I can slip away without them following me. They seem to keep the same routine everyday...browsing their favorite spots in the same order....finishing with the pine trees then back to the barn. One thing I do keep in mind now, is that when I am purchasing a goat, I make sure they have been handled and are used to people. They are just easier to handle when you do need to get ahold of one for hoof trimming or whatever. Have fun! Carrie

Thanks, karl, now I DO understand WHY, but I also thought the poster said they sprayed with soapy water, maybe I read it wrong. My daughter watched me picking them off a bloom, thought they were yucky, shocked at the hole in an otherwise perfect bloom, but a little upset that I was drowning them (w/soapy water). Most would get away if I tried to squish them. I said, and she knows I don't enjoy killing anything, especially like that, but it is relatively quick rather than what you described. I try not to look at them struggling. The traps are working, asked a guy who grows a zillion (not quite) roses organically what he does. Nothing. Said the traps just draw them in. I understood that, and the traps might be a more lingering death, but I'd like to repeat that if they are out there anyway, I might as well attract them in which means that many fewer to multiply and realizing that won't make a dent in the total population around. None on the roses today after 2 checks, not many in bloom but my 2 Charlotte are glorious, they especially like that one yellow in the sun. So I find one on a volunteer white petunia on the side. I was so mad and they get away from me, I tried to squish it with my thumb and forefinger, they're too tough, fell on the ground (hard to see them then), stomped a lot. I asked one nursery what they did. They didn't have much problem with them. I suggested maybe the asphalt parking lot gave them no ground to burrow into, but she said she set traps at home and got gallons (think it was plural) a past year. I still expect to find some strays now and then, and know that I am drawing them in but seems to be helping. What if we get them really, really, really bad? They do look for alternatives to what they seem to like best. But I read about a plague of locusts in China, and those have to be almost the worst on crops. I didn't know they hadn't made it to CA yet and don't like the extreme southerly areas of the country like somebody said on another thread.