adh673 - Why Do You Hate Your Toto Drake?
jmcgowan
11 years ago
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jules8
11 years agojmcgowan
11 years agoRelated Discussions
10' Rough In Elongated Toilet: Drake vs Cadet 3 vs Other?
Comments (12)OK pricklypearcactus, you're making me do alot of research now.... Here's the 3" flapper, model# THU175S, used on Toto "G-Max" 1.6gpf toilets, like the original, now-discontinued Drake: That flapper, from what I've been told, can be replaced by model# THU140S, which was used on their "Power Gravity" 1.6gpf toilets that were their midrange models - G-Max was their high-end. Note the lack of a hole on the side, which keeps it from falling until the water level is lower, thus sending more water to the bowl: But both of those 1.6gpf designs have been discontinued in favor of two 1.28gpf flush systems: E-Max (on most of the "Eco" models) and Double Cyclone (on most of the "II" models). Now here's where things get complicated - all of these seem to use a whole new range of flappers - a quick search turned up at least three new ones - THU253S, THU277S, and THU299S. Amongst the changes, most (all?) of these have added a float that sits above the flapper. I don't know if the float can be adjusted or removed - haven't seen one in person yet. There's a picture of the flapper from the Eco Drake, which I think uses the 277, on Terry's site: (here). To get an idea of the difference, look at the parts diagrams for the old 1.6 Drake and the new 1.28 Eco Drake. Now see the difference in part #6, the flapper? It does seem, as Terry noted, that the rest of the tank (and the bowl for that matter) haven't changed - compare the other part numbers. Maybe all you need to do to convert an Eco Drake into an old-style G-Max Drake is remove the float, or at least swap to the old flapper, although Terry says on his thread that the flush valve is different too. There was a 1.6gpf Double Cyclone in the lineup until recently (on the Neorest, Soiree, and Guinevere) - I can't find what flapper they used. This is way more than I ever wanted to know about toilet flappers.......See Morechecking in--do you still like your AS Cadet 3?
Comments (12)I installed a AS Cadet 3" about 6 months ago and posted my results somewhere on this site. In summary - I had to go back to HD a few times to get a bowl that wasn't defective (wasn't flat on the bottom or wasn't fully glazed). I have had the toilet installed for about 6 months and have put it through some severe "stress" tests and admit that it has never clogged. Relative to the previous toilet that was installed - I'm impressed. Very strong and efficient flush. Not extra ordinarily noisey. I was impressed enough with the toilet that I replaced the other two in my house with the same AS Cadet 3. So far, I'm very impressed with the toilet. I am still a little concerned about overall quality of the unit based on the initial quality problems I had finding one that wasn't defective. I'm wondering if the unit is going to start developing leaks or parts failing. Only more time will tell. I was initially going to use Toto Drake until the only local dealer quoted me a very high price and long delivery time. At the time the new report came out on toilets that showed the Cadet 3 performing very well relative to the Toto's (you can find it on the internet if you do some searching). I really don't care where the toilet is made as long as its the best unit for the $$$....See MoreToto Drake/Drake II vs. Kohler Wellworth
Comments (12)artemis78: "The Wellworth has a better MaP rating (1000+ vs. 500-800 for the Totos) so I'm trying to figure out how meaningful that really is." Not meaningful at all at that level. The average dump is around 250-300 grams; anything above 400-500 is more than adequate. It is a Good Thing to have an objective standard to compare flushing performance, but there are two cautions that must accompany MaP numbers. The first is that, above a certain level, it makes zero difference. A toilet with a 300 MaP rating will flush 250 grams every bit as well as a toilet with a 1,000 MaP rating; once the stuff is flushed, it is flushed; the 1,000 MaP rated toilet cannot flush it four times. Does a car with a speedometer that goes up to 140 mph get around town any quicker than one with a speedometer that goes only to 100 mph? The second caution is that a MaP rating measures only one aspect of flushing performance: how many condoms of standard diameter and length stuffed with a specific miso paste (not all miso is alike) will be flushed in one action. But not all waste is identical; there will be the occasional hard turd, or the outsize diameter turd, or the extra long turd; the MaP test does not test how a toilet deals with waste of unusual sizes or consistency. If you have a teenager who uses much too much toilet paper, especially "Ultra" thick toilet paper, you may find to your dismay that a toilet rated highly for MaP does not handle paper clogging as well as a lower-MaP toilet. MaP does not deal with bowl streaking issues, either: some high-MaP-rated toilets all but demand that you keep a brush handy by the toilet to wipe down the bowl after a flush. The MaP test does not test noise, which may be an issue in a powder room just off the living room where guests gather or a bathroom adjacent to the nursery where the baby sleeps. We installed a Toto Vespin II, the skirted version of the Drake II, at the first of the year. After about 300 days of daily repeated use, we are delighted with it. It flushes everything the first time, reasonably quietly, and the Sanagloss finish on the inside of the bowl keeps streaking to a minimum. Nothing specifically negative to say about the Wellworth; but for the best overall performance, your choices really are between Toto and Inax (Inax is the BMW to Toto's Mercedes), which from a performance standpoint are far and away the top two brands of toilets in the world. Here is a link that might be useful: The other toilet you may not have considered...See MoreToto-All 4 different Totos clog-HELP!!!
Comments (25)The problem is not the toilet, nor is it a problem with venting although it is so blatantly obvious that on first inspection it goes totally unnoticed by homeowners and even most plumbers, however I would bet a steak dinner that once I explain the problem all the plumbers who read these posts will slap the palm of their hand on their forehead and shout, "I knew that!" The post clearly states that all four TotoÂs were installed to replace older 3.5gpf toilets. That fact alone tells me that the house was constructed prior to the introduction of the 1.6gpf water saver toilets. Here is the answer: Prior to the introduction of 1.6gpf water saver toilets the plumbing codes mandated that all toilets must be installed on a 4" line. With a 3.5gpf flush the water level in a 4" line will fill the pipe about ½ way, which is a sufficient depth to convey the solid particulates in the waste, however with a 1.6gpf flush the water level is too low to properly suspend the solids. The solids then rub against the bottom of the pipe, retarding the velocity of flow and the water will seep around the solids, thus leaving the solids to buildup in the pipe forming a clog. In fact, in the early days of 1.6gpf toilets this is what made Toto famous because the Toto bowl filling technique and trap design resulted in a slightly higher velocity of flow than the competitors, which helped compensate for the pipe size problem. Once the problem was fully understood the plumbing codes were amended so that they now say if we install a toilet with a flush greater than 1.6gpf we must install it on a 4" line, but when installing a toilet with 1.6gpf or less we must install it on a 3" line. By reducing the pipe from 4" to 3" that effectively reduces the volume of the pipe to ½ the volume of a 4" line, which in turn raises the water level in the pipe during the flush to the prescribed 50% fill needed to properly suspend the solid particulates. Therefore, as I stated originally, the problem is not particular to the Toto toilets, it is a problem with water saver toilets in general, and understanding that we can no longer install toilets with a flush greater than 1.6gpf the only permanent solution is to change the toilet waste arm from 4" to 3"....See Moremjtx2
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