Bill/Mongo - will 1/2 round fix thickness disparity problem?

15 years ago

Okay, let me see if I can explain this without putting everyone to sleep.

I would like to do an accent strip of carrara midi brick at chair rail height. The rest of the wall will be the 6 X 6 running bond.

The sample I have of the Waterworks midi brick which I've used before on floors is 5/8" thick. The dal-tile field tile is 5/16" thick. You see where this is going. I found a stone mosaic online that is 3/8" thick, which is better, but still problematic.

BUT!: if I put a 1/2 ROUND piece under and over the stone mosaic, as a frame to separate it from both the field tile below and the chair rail above, will that fix my problem? Seems to me it would. Seems to Joel it would. Also sounds very pretty. But thought I'd check with the experts.

Thanks!

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Comments (8)

MongoCT
15 years ago
Sounds like you have your answer!

But I will state the obvious, do a mock up and make sure that the combination of the half-round radius and the thickness of the midi brick doesn't force you into have a too-wide grout joint.

Shouldn't be a factor, but it's something to watch out for. It becomes more of a factor as the radius of the half-round gets smaller.
bill_vincent
15 years ago
I was thinking the same thing because of the thickness of the midi-brick. 5/8" is pretty thick, and even set tight to the 1/2 rounds, may make for a pretty good joint as the radius pulls away from the midi-brick. Also, how thick are those 1/2 rounds?
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oh geez, that is ugly. Total installer error. A sealer of does help reduce the chance of grout building up in the cracks and crevices of natural stone, but by no means does it eliminate it. The use of a small brush, even something as simple as a toothbrush, during grout cleanup would have eliminated your problem. The solutions have been covered by Bill. Due to the thickness of grout that needs to be removed, this needs to be a combination of chemical (acid) and mechanical, with the mechanical "assisting" the acid. In overly simplistic terms, the acid will dissolve the binder in the grout, leaving you with the sand filler, that will simply fall away. Mechanical abrasion (a stiff brush to start with) will assist the acid in dissolving the grout and cleaning the tough stuff out of the micro-grooves and pores. If they show up with a jug of muriatic acid, send them home. If they say "what's sulfamic acid" send them home. The discoloration on the grout after their premature cleaning attempt? That's why the instructions say to not use it on green (uncured) grout. There's usually a 10-14 day waiting period. Cleaners can get into the uncured grout and "burn" the grout, resulting in an unremoveable powdery-looking residue on the grout surface. You have so much buildup on the stone that I would not let them do a "mop" type of application, sloshing it everywhere. They need to apply it to just the built-up parts, because it's going to take several applications to get through the full thickness of some of those build-ups. If you have them proceed with the cleanup, find out what product they intend to use, then read up on that product before they show up to use it. Oh, and one of the beauties of sulfamic versus muriatic is that they could use muriatic that's so strong they could do more damage than good. With sulfamic, you mix crystals into cool water. Once you get a saturated solution, no more crystals will dissolve, they'll just sink to the bottom of the bucket. Don't let them mix sulfamic in hot water. That's a way to boost the amount that's dissolved and thus boost the "strength" of the acid. They need patience and multiple acid applications with this cleanup, this is not a one-shot attempt.
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Your comments make me think there are specific reasons that the GC isn't coordinating this? Well, if the inexperienced GC is only giving you "loose directions", did you at least read this before you proceeded? Prior to using any slc, you really need your ducks lined up. You need all your prep work done, especially sealing any crevices that the slc could flow through. You need to contain the slc to get a level finished area. You also need to have your helpers lined up and they need to know their roles in the process. Who is mixing the next batch, who is transporting, who is placing, who is leveling, who is cleaning. The key to placing slc is to do it in one "continuous" pour, you want to be placing the second batch before the first batch is past its open time. If the floor is so out of whack that you have an excessive thickness of slc to be placed, then it can either be done in separate lifts, or you can ditch the slc and do a mud floor. From your post I don't know what the scope of the project is - are you just leveling the area under the shower base, or are you leveling the entire bathroom floor? Were this my project, and the floor was really nasty, I'd consider pulling the subfloor and leveling the floor joists (new joists sistered to the existing or tapered shims on top of the existing). Presumably it's not too bad since you're going the slc route. For slc I'd prep the existing floor. Re-nail what's there, and if needed, add another layer of ply. Then add a rim to contain the slc. Rim the drain so the slc doesn't flow down the drain hole. Seal any cracks in the underlayment/subfloor. Prime the underlayment/subfloor if required with an slc primer. If needing several batches and doing this DIY, try to have a 3-person crew. One to mix, one to transport the product from the mixer to the placer and clean the buckets after the product is placed, and a third person to place the slc. At a minimum you need two people, one to mix, another to place. You need to be a well-coordinated crew as you don't want cold joints from one batch of slc to another. As far as placing the terrazzo base, as long as the subfloor is level, the drain holes line up and the area is properly framed, it's not that difficult. Mongo
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pirula
Original Author
15 years ago
Dunno yet. They'd be the daltile half rounds. Do you happen to know?
bill_vincent
15 years ago
You're okay, then-- they're about 7/8- 1" thick, if you're talking about the stone ones.
pirula
Original Author
15 years ago
Actually, I wasn't. But if dal-tile has Carrara half rounds I'll check them out. That sounds beautiful. I sent you an email this morning, Bill, with a pic of the look I'm shooting for.

I'm also wondering if a chair rail type piece wouldn't also work. One "upside down" along the bottom of the mosaic and one right side up along the top to finish off the wainscot. Since the chair rail is so much thicker on the top it's SUPPOSED to stick out from the field tile. Hmmmm...

Will go to dal tile.com now to check on the stone half rounds. Hope they're there.

Thanks!
pirula
Original Author
15 years ago
Hmmm, couldn't find any half round in stone. And only trim pieces I found were in crema marfil and others, not Carrara. The website is missing stuff.

If you can lead me in the right direction on this Bill, I'd be grateful. The nearest dal-tile is one hour away.

Now, if I want EXPENSIVE tile? that's only 10 minutes away.

Figures.
bill_vincent
15 years ago
I haven't checked my email yet-- matter of fact, this thread is the first thing I'm coming to this morning-- but I know exactly the look you're going for, and either piece will work. With the chair rail, though, you might need to turn the bigger flat side in toward the midi-brick, though, because the smaller side is only 3/8" thick, and the brick would stick out past it.
evilbunnie
15 years ago
Do you mean half-round or pencil rail? I bought a pencil rail and chair rail in carrara from a company someone mentioned on the kitchen forum -- Tilepost.com? They had an awesome sale, perhaps you could check them out. The carrara chair rail was something like 8 bucks a foot, and shipping costs were reasonable.

Bill/Mongo - will 1/2 round fix thickness disparity problem?

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Bill/Mongo - will 1/2 round fix thickness disparity problem?

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