Tonight I did a search on eBay for "plumeria" instead of "plumeria cutting" as usual. This brought up the seed and seedling auctions I usually donÂt see. I was shocked at the number of unscrupulous seed and seedling sellers out there! Several people all but stated their seeds or seedlings would produce an exact or near exact copy of the parent plant. Others simply ignored the fact that plumeria are so hybridized that the odds of getting a near copy of the mother plant are very low, thus committing a serious error of omission. If I ever buy plumeria seeds from eBay, I will look for an honest seller whose only guarantee is that the seeds are fresh and have good parentage, someone who is clear in their offering that the resulting plants could range from average to spectacular, but are not likely to resemble the pod parent or (if known) the pollen parent. Philip

e4849. The fancieee cooktop was made my Caldera Corp out of Vermont. It was not induction but radiant, and everything stuck to the cooktop. The company went "Belly Up" a year ago--Alto I believe somebody took over the Gas cooktop part of the business. It was their intent to market a gas cooktop with touch controls, but I don't think that one was ever released. Ya know it's kinda funny, We "Specifically" bought the Icon Induction cooktop because the controls were (well we thought anyway) Isolated from the rest of the cooktop, and hence would receive no spills or other contamination---like what totalled the Caldera. Course after seeing no compalints with any touch controls on any of the induction units, cept the one posted about the Icon---kinda makes ya wonder. Not sure how many they sold (Icon Inductions) so cept for the post on GW haven't seen any other problems. Still Strange, their new (Electrolux) induction cooktop no longer has the stainless---yet I guess their new Drop ins, Ranges etc will have----Go figger? Gary

ANTSS et al., I have to say that this is one of the more interesting threads I have seen here and you make some valid points. The interesting thing about this forum is that there are some lurkers from the trades probably watching what's going on with a smirch on their face--like cheshire cats in a window waiting for a blue jay to land in a tree to think about pouncing on:) I actually belong to another forum (nothing to do with kitchens or appliances) in which mention of dealers (positive or negative) is forbade and the "promotion" of any thing is really discouraged. Here it's a little more...blurred I think. Well, I am in the final throes of buying some stuff and thought it would be interesting to check in here. Basically I think I am glad to revive the thread (for a little while at least) and see what people have to say. In the interest of full disclosure I am of course buying top of the line laundry-set, range, fridge, dishwasher, hood, microwave all in one shot. Some of the big ticket items are made in the US which I think is great (I actually feel quite good buying something from a place close by), and hope they work out--if they don't I can toss paper airplanes at their factory. You make some great points about "perceived value" vs. "real value" and it's relationship to discounting and bottom dollar--your exposition of this is good and does make us think. I take a slightly different view about this, however. I will stay brand agnostic about all this even though I mentioned a few brands in the previous posts. No matter what we do, we are all prisoners of a giant Madison-Avenue-Mind-#$%@ that does an incredibly sophisticated job in telling us, more like dictating to us what we should buy and what we have to have to be happy. And then there are all the pushers (dope-sellers of all stripes and sizes to be sure) ready to supply the crack and dope to keep everyone sedated and happy and these large companies will spend whatever it takes to make sure we are inured with the message that we HAVE spend to have the VERY best. Yes, to be fair you mentioned R&D and Wages etc. especially if it's made here, but the big huge part of this is simply marketing mindshare--getting the message across that one has to have it! I think it's great you brought this all up, because yeah, wouldn't it be cool if there were more things made locally with a lot of quality and love-we'd all be better off. However, our current information culture is designed to sell people expensive stuff--it's set up that way on purpose! (Not a conspiracy, but the forces of media are just too powerful and people naturally fall in line.) I wouldn't be so impertinent about this except when I see my 12 year old neice--growing up not in a huge city just Anywhere USA--measuring her self worth by the quantity of super-luxury handbags she can lay her hands on. She's 12 for gods sake! And it's not just Americans who think like this (although we are certainly definitely in the Big Leagues) it's everywhere that's developing and it's just going to keep getting worse. I know people who can't drive anywhere now without a GPS in their car! Ok, enough, I along with the rest of the appliance heads out there can't help ourselves--we're too drawn in, we crave big BTU's and double compressors and silent insulated dishwashers so much that we risk ignoring what's really important--others around us. These things are nice, but not completely necessary. I think that a lot of the "regular joe stuff" is fine for most applications. Why do we always "crave" the "best" why can't we focus on being kinder to each other rather than worrying whether the super-obnoxious-neighbor is going to be impressed with our luxury warming drawer or copper apron sink. What really should be making us happy anyway? So with a nod to antss for the fine comments and a good dose of crow-eating-self-conflicted pride I say, if you can get it cheaper go for it. You may not need it, but if you can't help yourself, try to save yourself a few bucks where you can and enjoy yourself.

Bad experience with these AJ Madison, won’t use them again. We purchased an appliance (induction range) and found out before delivery that it wouldn’t work in our apartment. My bad for not understanding this in advance, or for seeing the fine print about the 35% (!) restocking fee hit for canceling the order. But they wouldn’t even work with us to apply a reasonable share of the price we paid to purchase another product from them instead. Just basically told us we’re out of luck. Absolutely their right, and fully disclosed, but seems like really bad business to lose a customer through zero flexibility and understanding. Obviously won’t buy anything from them in the future. Learn the lesson from me: do all your homework, double-check your measurements and installation requirements, and check with your building superintendent before you buy a new appliance. Otherwise, at least with these guys, it will be costly and they will take your money and won’t try to help you out in any way. Thanks for nothing AJ Madison.