Hi Karen B,
From what I understand a seedling can produce flowers of a completely different apperance than the host plant. I have a Samoan Fluff seedling that bloomed last year for the first time that someone gave me because they didn't want another samoan fluff. The flower (only got one) fom that plant was very nice. Enclosing a picture. I guess with a seedling you never know what you may get. I could be wrong on that, and if I am I hope someone tells me so. They can be fun is what I'm saying I guess. Hope that helps you some.
:-)
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John

As far as I know plumerias do not come true to seed. I don't know if there are some varieties that do. Most brugs don't come true either but there are a few exceptions such as Sanguineas. Maybe it's the same with plumies? It drives me nuts when sellers say that they have a specific plant for sale, then go on to say that it's a seedling. At least some put in a disclaimer stating that the seedling might or might not resemble the parent plant.
Karyn

Karen,
Seedlings are a crap shoot. Some will bloom true to the parent plant while others are completely different. To me as a seller, I would only say a plant is a seedling of whatever plant I got the seeds from. I would make it a point to advise the buyer that the seedling may or may not bloom like the parent. The reason is I have no idea where the pollen came from. When I had a lot of plumeria in pots next to each other, it was possible for one plant to pollinate the other with the help of some friendly insects. If a plant was off by itself, it was more likely to self-pollinate and produce seeds that were more likely to match the parent. But I could not be certain.
Mike

Mike is correct. Pictures to show:
Mom of the seed pod (white cindy moragne seedling)
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Cindy seedling #6:
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Cindy seedling #3:
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Cindy seedling #4:
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cindy seedling #9:
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cindy seedlings 5,10,15,18,27,&32 were various whites- nothing special. There are approx. 25 more seedlings that have not flowered (planted 9/03)
You usually do not get this many good new varieties unless you have very good seeds. The moragnes and big multi colored and reds give you the most chances because of the mixtures used to make the parents. This is why I only plant these types of seeds and Daisy Wilcox (biggest flower). Bill

Bill,
Wow, what a variety from a white parent. Do you think this may be due to the multitude of plumeria you have so the pollen source may have been a red or multicolor?
Mike

All your Moragnes came from a cross of a Daisy Wilcox (big white/pink) and a Scott Pratt (bright red) so from the 282 seedlings Moragne had he picked the wide range of large colorful (red,pink,white, yellow and rainbow) flowers. However, all of them carry the genes of the two parents which give them a huge potential for variety when they have seedlings. I think my cindy might have crossed with a J.L. Pink Pansey that sat near it which would throw in some other colors and shapes. I am hoping the other 25 have some good surprises but I do feel lucky so far for what I already have. this is why I always say plant Moragne seeds or any good rainbow. bill

Hi,
thanks for the advise. Reading what all of you have said, tells me to not bid on any that says "this is my seedling of". If I am going to spend money, want an acutal named hybrid. A lot of sellers on ebay are selling their seedlings.

I saw one from Florida Colors, now don't totally understand that one. A seedling from Florida Colors,don't remember the plant.Does that mean, he has tons of these seeds that produce that one plumeria, and will continue to produce that one plumeria? Or will each one look different. From this does it become a named hybrid? curious..

You have gotten some beautiful seedlings Bill, interesting how they change. Would be fun to watch them grow...thanks for the pictures.
Karen B.

Hi JOhn,
If someone gives you a seedling, and it develops into your beautiful plumie.. then thats great. But if You buy it from a seller, is a different thing. As Karyn said, not fair when one is trying to buy an actual certain plant, want it to be that plant..seedlings could be different.
thanks, So now when you buy a plant from a seller on ebay, how does one know? Unless they say cutting rooted from the orginal plant, most don't say that. .
Karen B.

Ah, Karen, that is why you buy from reputable sellers. There are, unfortunately, some sellers who will sell a seedling with the name of the parent plant. Not ethical IMHO. As an example, HawaiiSandy states in her auctions that the cutting is from the named plant. There are many reputable sellers out there. They are the ones that get my business. I made the mistake early of buying a rooted cutting from someone who said it was a particular variety. When it finally bloomed, it was nothing like the picture. Lesson learned.

Regarding Luc's seedlings. If I remember correctly, Luc uses seedlings that appear common for root stock. Seedlings that exhibit unusual traits (leaf color, shape, growth rate, etc.) he keeps to see what develops. He may have a bunch of those that he needs to move to make room.

The Plumeria Society of America has a procedure for naming a hybrid. It involves documenting the plant and bloom over a period of a few years to determine that the bloom is consistent. They check with their database to make sure it is not the same as a current named variety. Once this is done, the plant is accepted as a new cultivar.
Mike

Also, to add to Mike's comments on naming hybrid, I believe you cannot name if you only have one of something. I think you have to have a number or cuttings started off the original plant to make sure the variety survives. I was told this but I have not submitted any yet so I am not sure but it does make sense. If Joey is around, he should know.
Karen- If you remember when you first came on the forum I was commenting to be wary of bargain sales or seedlings because, as Mike said, there are those who use a name to push plants that otherwise might not sell well. You can never guarantee that a plumeria seedling will look like the parents, although whites and yellows tend to produce more whites and yellows from experience. A seed is still a mix of many genes that control the size, shape and color and it is always a gamble as to which genes will dominate in any one seed. A cutting that is grafted on a seedling is not affected by the seed stock and will flower true to the cutting. Also remember that the first flower on a seedling is not always the true flower so you need to wait two or three seasons of flowering to check for sure. Bill

Hi Mike and Bill,
thanks appreciate this information, cause I am new to buying cuttings on ebay. And have a tendacy to look at feedback, and presuming the quality is good. . I was bidding and lost a plant, looking at feedback. Then realized the plant I lost and was bidding on, was a seedling of aztec gold..there was a good one I lost. will be more careful.

Question: I burned the leaves on one 12" plant, trying to back up and figure out what I did wrong. I bought a no name, for fun, a large leaf, ready to bloom one from home depot,want to see flowers!..I transplanted it in soil into a 1 gallon, dampened the mix first not to have dry soil against the roots.

NOw after planted, ..I gave it full dose b-1 and full dose superthrive, and scant food. next day, Almost instantly some of the leaves lost their color at ends going up, and down the center of the leaves went scorch brown..Not dead..So where here did I screw up? Now afraid to feed other small plants. I always use full strench b-1 and superthrive.. are they too strong? Have forgotten on this one. So much to learn last year Bill, hard to remember it all..am trying.

Karen

Karen,
One of the problems with feedback on eBay is that a seller can sell a celadine and call it a Princess Victoria. By the time it blooms and you realize you've been had, it is too late to post negative feedback. There was a seller in LA that was selling celadines by various exotic names (made up by the seller) along with pictures taken from private websites. By the time people figured out they didn't get what they expected, he had changed his name and was selling under a different ID. Still taking people's money, although I should say stealing. On another board, we have a list of reliable sellers, but many just buy from other board members.

On your plant, did you put it in a shady area after transplanting? Sometimes the transplant shock and too much sun can cause leaf loss. What fertilizer did you use? I doubt it was the B-1 or ST. If the leaves that turned brown were the lower ones, I wouldn't worry. Plumeria tend to shed those leaves rather easily when disturbed.

Mike

Hi Mike,
Yes I did put the plant in the shade, used just a scant amt of hawaiian bud and bloom. Was the upper and lower leaves. Have left them on, just ugly. Didn't know if I was suppose to reduce B-1 or St..maybe transplant shock...thanks

Oh boy on that seller.. terrible on selling a celedine for PV.. wow, hope I haven't bought from him. Made up exotic names, yes that is crooked. and one does not know what they have until they bloom..do you know his new username?
thanks,
Karen B.

Karen- When you use B-1 it is usually a teaspoon to a tablespoon in a gallon of water depending on the brand (read the label) and with Superthrive it is a few drops to a teaspoon. Even so, these are not harsh chemicals so I agree with mike that it is probably something else. Sometimes Home Depot and other discount stores get massive buys from a greenhouse that has pushed flowers or leaves in the artificial environment. When the plant hits outdoor fluxuating temperatures and light, it freaks out. Fortunately, the plumie is fairly hardy and will recover with only a minor setback. Remember, the bargain buys are always somewhat of a risk. One good thing is I think H.D. guarantees their plants so if it fails you can get your money back- save the receipt. Bill

Karen,
Bill's post reminded me that I bought a plumeria from Lowes a couple of years ago. Supposed to be a white.
Here's what it looked like.

Looks very nice for what was suppose to be a white Mike.

John

Yes Mike, that looks like a step up. I have had mostly steps down like where I bought some awesome multi-color and got this:
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Say Mike- consider a trade? LOL You did say you wanted a white. Bill

Hi Bill
oooh on the sT and B1..use a cap full, duhhhhh better read the directions. dumb me. I will be more careful. Kind of intersting to buy the no names..look what Tony got!! I am waiting not too patient for all of my inflos to bloom.. My large plumie, is ready to bloom, large inflos, 5 more coming..will need someone to identify it.

Appreciate sincerely the info on the sellers. I have been on ebay for 7 years, and when someone buys from me, automatically check feedback. NOw can see, plumeria sellers not all are honest.. I will not be guliable again. Isn't that a shame, crooked people out there.
Karen B.

Yes karen, that is a shame about crooked plumeria sellers. Maybe you can get that list from Mike on reliable sellers on e-bay. So far all the plumeria people I have met are great people, but there is always somebody looking for a quick dollar instead of working for it.

And Bill....sorry man, but that is one ugly plumie! LOL

John

Yes John that is ugly but it is not the worst deal I've made. Even big growers (Exotic, Stokes, etc) have sold me some lemons. I got a Kaneohe Sunburst that I planted at the head of my hedge, but when it bloomed it was a sorry little pale pink. I bought a pink ruffles that turned out to be a $40 dollar cheaper Ruffles.
But I did have one better deal when I bought a common red from the SCPS sale and it turned out to be a Lani (worth a look considering it was $15)
Lani in bloom:
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Bill

Bill, that Lani is beautiful. I guess thats the way it is with plumeria. Your bound to get something other than what you expected once in a while. I just don't care for people who deliberately sell one thing as another, as I'm sure no one does. Hope your Lani blooms for you this year!

John

When it comes to seedlings there's no way of knowing what you may get when it flowers. Because of the cross pollenation. If you want a type of plant that produce a certain flower. Best to go with cuttings or rooted cuttings.

Tonight I did a search on eBay for "plumeria" instead of "plumeria cutting" as usual. This brought up the seed and seedling auctions I usually donÂt see. I was shocked at the number of unscrupulous seed and seedling sellers out there! Several people all but stated their seeds or seedlings would produce an exact or near exact copy of the parent plant. Others simply ignored the fact that plumeria are so hybridized that the odds of getting a near copy of the mother plant are very low, thus committing a serious error of omission. If I ever buy plumeria seeds from eBay, I will look for an honest seller whose only guarantee is that the seeds are fresh and have good parentage, someone who is clear in their offering that the resulting plants could range from average to spectacular, but are not likely to resemble the pod parent or (if known) the pollen parent.

Philip

It's amazing how many sellers say that their seeds or seedlings will be a certain variety and even advertise them as such. I see the same thing with brugmansia sellers.
Karyn

To all,
How long did it take to get the seedlings bloom,maybe its oke to wait, i use the seedlings for crafting at the moment.

greetings,Michael

My oldest seedlings are only 1 yr old. I've heard that it takes an average of 4 years to get your first flowers and they might not be the true color. You need to wait for a couple inflos before the color can be truely determined. I think that many people use seedlings as rootstock for grafting.
Karyn

Seedlings. Very few will bloom in 2 years. More in 3 and most in 4. The rest can take up to 20 years as documented by Bill Moragne. Karyn is exactly right in that the first flowers can or cannot be true. For grafting a good white or white and yellow that comes from a hardy plant is best. Bill

Thanks Bill and Karyn for your comment.

I used 1 white seedling for crafting,and one Thai seedling(unknown colour).
Also a sidetip from an Hawaii red,crafted a yellow cutting on it(also from Hawaii).
I am in the crafting period now having around 70, 1 year old seedlings to see if i succeed.
So i will hope and pray that it turns oke.

greetings,Michael