Estimate too high for bathroom renovation?

11 years ago

Got an estimate for renovation of small Manhattan apartment bathroom. I've seen his work and it is very good. Also recommended by other people in my building. But does it seem kind of high?
------------------------------------------------------
Apply for city permits
$850.00 (approx 2 weeks)

Demolition and hauling: Includes tub removal and disposal, walls ceiling and floor demolition and disposal of material
$2,100.00 (approx 2 days)

Install new walls with metal studs, cement boards around tub and green sheetrock outside tub area and prepare for tile and wallpaper, prepare floor for tile installation, closet walls
$1,800.00 (approx 2 days)

Install, grout and seal tiles on walls and floors, install wallpaper and plaster and paint ceiling (tile and wallpaper provided by client)
$3,500.00 (approx 4 days)

Install new door Bathroom door (Provided by client), repair door surround on the outside walls, Install bathroom furniture and hardware, light fixtures (provided by client)(does not include water fixtures)
$850.00 (approx 1 day)

TOTAL
$9,100.00

This post was edited by N__B on Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 13:04

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Comments (21)

piscesgirl
11 years ago
Seems extreamly reasonable to me, especially for Manhattan. We received quotes for our Philly suburb small bathroom reno that were in a range of anywhere from $8,500 to $19,500 for labor only.
User
11 years ago
If anything it is about 3-4x too cheap. Is he actually licensed and insured and approved to work in your building?
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But then you made it clear you arent in the trades your an accountant gone weekender and maybe youre good at it who knows Well I grew up in construction had both a plumbing and electricians license....So yeah I am pretty damned good at it. but we know thats rare as evidenced here by all the travesties in reno's on these forums Ninety five percent of the posts on these forums are from trades taking advantage of people. Do you even look at the posts? How many times have we seen tile installed terribly? So I am sorry if these particular forums are evidence of anything it is the incompetent nature of the trades. Now I am not saying that this the case, people post here when they have a problem, but I am saying it sure as hell isn't evidence to the contrary. Jumping to defraud folks now Huh? how about selling a home without permitted bathrooms.....defrauding... This is a deflection. I am sure my mom said something about two rights don't make a wrong. Furthermore, can you please show me anywhere I said that bathrooms shouldn't be permitted? I have never made that claim, in fact, I said permitting was pretty easy. Furthermore, there is nothing and I mean absolutely nothing fraudulent about selling a home with unpermitted work done. NOTHING. Now it is fraud if the homeowner doesn't reveal that, but in no way are those things equal. But I may be charging wages for the hours of time I spend driving to procure building materials for you at which I pay taxes at the point of sale and I may get my standard 10% markup on that or I may add it to the job if you choose to purchase and procure all that I have no idea what you are even trying to say here, but I will note that you are prohibited from benefiting from a 10% markup in either a time and materials or a cost plus contract. So are you saying that you are working in a time and materials contract (assumed because you are charging for driving around) and not passing trade discounts on to your customers? Heck I could spend an hour explaining SPF2 KDHT lumber vs KDAT and then have you call me from the lumber yard or show up with abunch of warped lumber. Again, this really has nothing to do with a bathroom remodel. Did I advise people to go buy treated lumber? We are talking fixtures and tile. But its also the first place people come to complain when it goes horribly wrong. See above... Someday when an isurance claim gets declined.. Homeowners insurance can't deny claims for DIY work unless the work was done negligently (which it wouldn't be unless you were intentionally trying to damage your home). Furthermore, where am I advocating for a DIY? I didn't. I advocated for consumers purchasing their fixtures and tile smartly. You are all in a bunch about something I never said. ETA: i know you are a good one at arguing with pros here over the years. No I am not. I am a good one at arguing that people think about the marginal costs of projects. There are times and budgets when pros are necessary and I absolutely defend pros when they are needed or when they are right. Again, I am not arguing for a DIY project nor did I ever. I am advocating making smart consumer buying choices. There is no legitimate reason that a time and materials contractor needs to be the one to purchase fixtures. Consumers should ensure they are buying the right product and there can be a few problems if the contractor isn't given model numbers and relevant information in advance, however, done properly there are significant savings with no cost to contractor.
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I'm doing a remodel in Los Angeles and it's high cost area. Also, the trades are incredibly busy so even finding someone skilled is hard. I only wound up with one firm bid and went with it because my designer had worked with him before; I had seen his work in my building as well as for other people so I would probably have gone with him anyway since I knew his work and my designer said, based on her experience, any other bids wouldn't have been lower. That said, it's a bit difficult to break out my costs since plumbing and other work also includes my kitchen. However, my baths are small as is my kitchen (an 8' x 10') galley and there is minimal tile work in my kitchen - a backsplash is about it and the counters are just straight for baths and kitchens so not a lot of detailed slab fabrication. I am not changing any layouts for plumbing in baths or kitchen - swapping the current tub/shower combo for a larger shower in the master and eliminating one sink in the master bath but footprints of everything remain the same. I am supplying all materials except the discretionary materials -I'm supplying toilets, faucets. fixtures, tiles, hooks and everything else that relates to what the bathrooms look like. Tile work is $13,000 (not including tile of course which I am supplying). Tile shower, tile floors and tile walls up to the usual height. Plumbing is budgeted for $7000 - again no major changes Electrical is budgeted at $8000 - but probably proportionately less for electrical in the bathrooms than other parts of my condo Shower Enclosures - $4250 - (glass and hardware for frameless is being supplied by GC in accordance with the specs from my designer) Does not include vanity installation as the cabinets as well as installation are being done by a third party. Standard GC overhead is 18% which is $5800 just on these items So I'm at $38,050 more or less since plumbing/electrical also covers other aspects of my remodel and of course that's without any fixtures, tiles or whatever - essentially just labor. With materials I am supplying, let's just say that Sophie's estimates of costs for a bathroom are not out of line - and my bathrooms are small compared to most :-)
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catbuilder
11 years ago
I don't see any mention of waterproofing. How is he going to waterproof the tub (I assume it's a tub/shower combo)?
pharaoh
11 years ago
Not high at all.

A basic bathroom remodel (down to studs) is $10,000. Manhattan prices would be 50% more.

A fine remodel with marble or other natural stone, linear drain, recessed lights, towel warmer, floor heating, floating vanity, etc would be at least $20,000
N__B
Original Author
11 years ago
Yes he is licensed in NJ and NY. He has also already done work in my building for a couple of neighbors.

It is a tub/shower combo. I will have to find out about the waterproofing.

Thanks all for your input!
N__B
Original Author
11 years ago
Does the $850 for NYC permits sound right? I have no idea what these are supposed to cost.
kompy
11 years ago
Permit charges are not just for getting them....he has to submit detailed drawings and descriptions, arrange meetings with inspectors (electrical, plumbing, structural and final inspections). All of that takes TIME, TIME, TIME! $850 is more than fair!

A full gut job here in the Midwest ranges from $8000 to $15,000. I agree...that price seems low. Are you supplying all the materials? IF yes, then that would make more sense.
lisaj1354
11 years ago
Right now, a full gut reno, and creating a walk in shower, replacing the tub, moving the vanity and toilet, and possible removing/changing doors is going to cost me approx. $15000 for a 9x11 ft bathroom.

I'm in Northern NJ and the contractor is licensed and insured.
Pipdog
11 years ago
Does the estimate not include plumbing and electrical work?
N__B
Original Author
11 years ago
Just tub, walls, and tiles. Tiles are on floor and go halfway up walls (except for tub/shower where it goes to ceiling).
catbuilder
11 years ago
The OP said they were supplying the tile and fixtures.
palimpsest
11 years ago
I've been in Manhattan bathrooms that are 3x7 for shower bath , and less than 5x7 for full so remember this is probably a small amount of square footage. It still seems a bit on the low side unless all the materials are basic.
N__B
Original Author
11 years ago
The bathroom is 4.5 x 7
palimpsest
11 years ago
That really could be about right. My slightly larger one in Phila was about $13,000, and the contractor is a bit on the pricey side because he specializes in getting bathrooms done in condos quickly and with good workmanship. I used very basic finishes like White Daltile and an Americast tub.
kirkhall
11 years ago
In concur with the others here. Sounds reasonable.
lascatx
11 years ago
I think it sounds reasonable and I suspect that in a few months prices will go higher as the folks effected by Sandy get into more rebuilding. After Katrina, you couldn't find people to do work in the NO area, so all the folks from Louisiana were in Houston planning and ordering. Since they had whole houses to do, you couldn't even get folks to talk to you for a single room. I'd say do it now.

The bid does specify cement board and tile (owner supplied tile).
Tim
11 years ago
For what its worth, I hate estimates that bundle materials and labor together.

I zoomed in on the demolition work, as it involves no material. $2100 for 2 days of work. Factor in maybe $300 to dispose of the materials (knowing the size of the room would help). So you're paying $900 a day for demolition labor. $90 per hour?

Granted, this is in Manhattan and I have no idea what the logistics are of getting demo done there are like and what disposal costs are - just seems like a lot of money for 2 days labor for what I presume is 1 person.

Also figures in to the $850 labor for the 1 day of installing the door and fixtures etc. No materials involved I presume - just 1 day of labor for $850.

As others have said it sounds reasonable in the end, but to me $850 a day for labor is about 2x what it should be and is double what I pay in Toronto for skilled labor of the type you're describing.
BrooklynDIY
11 years ago
I am doing a similar renovation in my tiny bathroom. The guy I want to work with quoted $19k, that's with builder-grade "stuff", so it would be more when all is said and done.

Instead I'm doing the demo myself, having him do all plumbing and electric, deal with the existing tub, install new one, replace shower body and install backer board. This alone is costing $6,250

I will do the wall and floor tiling, take care of toilet and sink.

If I could get him to do all of that for $9.5k I'd jump all over it.
xedos
11 years ago
"this is in Manhattan and I have no idea what the logistics are of getting demo done there are like and what disposal costs are "

yes it's a lot of money- but perhaps you shouldn't weigh in until you've had a chance to park your truck in Manhattan, then wait on the service elevator or take the stairs, then wait on your tradesman to show up and find his parking, then pay for both, the actually demo the stuff and cart it out one trash can at a time and then fill up that truck and send it out to Jersey or Conn. for disposal as there just aren't many places on the little island that take busted up tubs and broken tile.

You'll also need to markup these services and add a profit to the costs if you're running a business, so this stuff adds up quick !

This is EXACTLY why most businesses don't itemize costs, it simply invites discord because I'm sure anyone with an internet connection can find a cheaper price on a shovel or Moen faucet or laborer to cart out trash. You are paying for MANAGEMENT and expertise - not just a pretty faucet or trash removal and everyone want to make a PROFIT along the way.
millworkman
11 years ago
Exactly xedos
PRO
modern life interiors
11 years ago
bump

Estimate too high for bathroom renovation?

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piscesgirl

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