>>> there needs to be a formal organization of some sort to give individual groups a way to get insurance and that insurance is often needed to get access to any municipal or other public spaces. The affiliation with the ARS makes that possible. *** Yuppers. You're absolutely right. If ARS had no other function or value, I would want to see it survive as a support and pivot for the often-more-valuable local groups. >>> I will never forget exhibitors from out of town telling me that if we didn't have better and more expensive prizes, they wouldn't bring roses to our shows. *** HEH. I've seen them carry that particular brand of rudeness to the point of mocking the trophies during a trophy presentation, loudly trading them back and forth, and rudely urging the show committee to hurry up with the trophies so they could leave. I'm sorry to hear that sort of rudeness is not confined to my district. >>> And the person who chaired the rose show after me telling me that she'd never do it again as some of the old biddies had her in tears on a weekly basis. *** My own two local societies gave up shows, in large part because they were tired of the rude behavior of "Elite Exhibitors." Both Societies have given away their properties. They will never put on a show again. No, all is not well in rose show centric worlds. *** No, and I am really sorry. Because I think if they are done with a different emphasis, rose shows CAN be educational, and even fun. PHIL -- I agree with you. Several of us really tried to persuade our local society to just put on a LOCAL -- NON-JUDGED rose show, for the pleasure and education of the community. But they'd had it, and they were done. Too bad. Jeri

Yes - I treat it as I would fertilizer. As long as my plants aren't wilted, or in the case of those plants that don't wilt - if I'm sure they are not completely dry, I simply fertigate - water/fertilize at the same time. I use a smaller (than 2-1/2 gallons) watering can with a fine nozzle to apply the solution until the entire soil mass is saturated and water drips from the bottom. That is also how I generally water. I apply water slowly until the first few drips appear at the drain hole, then stop. This way I can be sure that 10-20% of the water I applied moves through the soil & out the bottom. This helps keep nutrients balanced and flushes accumulating salts from the soil. I don't have time to water like this, but this is the best way to water: Wet the soil until it is damp/wet but no water drains from the pot. Wait 10 minutes & water again so 10-15% of the total volume of water applied in both apps exits the drain. Of course this requires some guesswork on your part, but you get the picture. Watering technique hardly EVER gets the attention it deserves. It's very important to maximizing vitality in container culture. As a bonsai apprentice, you might be required to only water the master's trees for several months before you are allowed to work on trees. The first thing you learn is how to water. The soil solution will automatically work toward a state of isotonicity (like equilibrium), which is a condition where the fertilizer ions are equally dispersed throughout the entire soil solution. This is why it's important not to allow your tree to sit IN a collection saucer when you water. It should be above the saucer so the effluent can drain from the soil. If there is any continuity between the effluent and the soil solution, the salt levels will quickly move toward the state I described, reducing the effectiveness of flushing the soil. If you can't water so the soil is flushed each time you water (worried about root rot), I can say with great certainty that (the collective) your plant is not all that it could be - that some degree of vitality is being sacrificed. The only reason you need to worry about root rot is because of a heavy soil that remains wet/soggy/saturated for extended periods, which does kill roots the tree has to then replace, which is expensive in terms of energy outlay - energy that would have gone to increasing plant mass & number/size inflorescences (figs). Lol, JJ. You know where to find me if it doesn't sink in the first time, but I'm sure it always does. ;o) Al

Alek, I enjoyed looking at all the info on your web site. Recently I saw a NG Y0660 that had been returned to Sam's Club because the buyer really needed the LPG version. It was a bit dented-up in the front, and missing the rotisserie parts. Sam's wanted $700 for it. I started the task of trying to figure out just what it would take to convert it to propane and to repair the cosmetic damage. When I realized that the valves would have to be replaced, as well as the orifices, both doors and one drawer, as well as all the missing rotisserie parts, I almost bagged the idea, but decided to call Grand Hall and check on parts prices anyway. Am I ever glad that I did! The prices were so reasonable that the total cost to convert to LPG and restore the grill to new condition was only $270.00 including shipping. When my offer of $500.00 was accepted by the manager at Sam's I picked up the grill and ordered the parts. I've installed them all, with the exception of one valve that was not correct, a missing bracket to mount the rotisserie motor, and slides for the tank drawer ... basically just "noise-level" problems. Haven't had a chance to use the grill yet, as the weather hasn't been too cooperative, but I'm looking forward to it. My total cost for an "almost new" Y0660 grill is now $770.00. ! ! ! ! ! ! S C O R E ! ! ! ! ! ! There are a few things that I've learned from this exercise that I'd like to pass along: 1) Grand Hall's customer service folks are great! Their policies are pretty good too ... with the incorrect part it was "Oh, we'll get a replacement out today", not "Send it back and we'll see ...". 2) If you know what you need, and how to ask for it, you *CAN* buy the parts to convert these grills from NG to LPG and from LPG to NG. 3) The parts costs are ludicrously low ... the main valves, which include the orifice are only $5.00 each, and the side burner and rotisserie valves are $8.00 each, as they include a little more hardware. It probably makes more sense to just buy the darned things than to do the drilling for the LPG to NG conversion, and it's WAYYY better to buy for the NG to LPG conversion than to try filling and redrilling with smaller holes. 4) Rather than actually replacing the valves, which can be difficult to get off the manifold of the Y0660, it's better to just swap the valve cores and the orifices. I don't know for sure if the valves are common between the Y0660 and the smaller Y0101XC, but the conversion pictures on your site look identical. For example, the main burner gas valve part number is P03222007A for LPG. Also, the valve bodies have the number "0404A" cast into the side. This is the same for the NG and the LPG valves. How does this compare to the part number & valves for the Y0101XC? I have a full set of parts for anyone wanting to convert from LPG to NG. I'd also be interested in that guage that you've got left over from your conversion,...

femgolfer, I have had this grill for over a year now and love it. I use it many times per week. I have read and made several posts about the heat of this grill and posted some solutions. I had heat output issues when I first purchased the grill and the regulator hummed loudly too. Customer Service replaced the regulator under warranty and that solved the humming. They also explained about the new tank system with the OPD valve inside. As was noted by another poster you should open the tank valve SLOWLY. This helps to ensure that the tank OPD valve does not shut or restrict the flow of gas. I used an oven thermometer at the grates to compare to the built in gauge. On my unit the built in gauge showed 425 or so, but at the grate level it was slightly over 600. But, you noted you've tested this. Also, here is something that I never thought of until I had my tank refilled recently. I mentioned to the person refilling that it seemed the heat output was low. He asked if the tank had been purged recently. A LOT of AIR (not propane) was released from the tank in this purge process. The propane guy said that propane is mixed with air to decrease the burn temperature. He noted that if this was not done that it would burn too hot for general consumer uses such as grills. But after a few tank refills the tanks get too much air trapped inside and thus the propane exiting the tank does not burn as hot as it should. The solution is to have the tank purged on a regular basis. Once I started having the tank purged at each fill up I have not had any heating problems at all. I hope this helps.