Native American tomatoes?
disneynut1977 ~ Melissa
15 years ago
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james_in_lapine
15 years agocarolyn137
15 years agoRelated Discussions
Have you seen any Blackburn's sphinx?
Comments (5)http://www.fws.gov/pacific/pacificislands/wesa/sphinxmoth.html This is the link I finally found from my files on the beautiful Blackburn's sphinx. yes, I chose this name not only for my love of tomatoes and their culture, but the big sphingids which also like to eat tomatoes. I really do love the big moths and I rear sphingids and saturniids....See MoreCherokee: determinate or indeterminate? North American native?
Comments (24)Why is it so hard to see what I'm asking with regard to following some sort of protocol to arrive at a verifiable determination rather than "googling" peripheral or irrelevant cultural information and forcing extremely limited data to match some preconceived notion? Same or similar nonsense: 1) Astronomer finds planet in distant solar system. Planet appears to be approximately same size as Earth and approximately same distance from its sun which also appears to be the same size and age as our sun. The distant planet has a single moon approximately the same size as ours and in same or similar orbit as our moon. There appears to be a good deal of water on the distant planet and spectral analysis indicates an atmosphere same or similar to our atmosphere. The astronomer declares a high likelihood there are human beings inhabiting the distant planet ... hogwash!!! 2) Chef loves a particular wild mushroom and uses it frequently in a signature dish. He relies on a professional mushroom gatherer to provide him with the wild mushrooms, but one day the chef finds a clump of mushrooms in his back yard that look almost identical to the mushrooms he loves ... only they are somewhat smaller on average and have some almost inperceptible other differences. Chef assumes they are the same or similar mushrooms as his favorite kind and serves them up in his signature dish ... dead customers!!! Okay ... just trying here to think of some rediculous comparisons to finding two similar tomatoes in two remote locations 500 miles distant from one another and having very limited data to determine any relationship other than visual comparisons and two stories where third parties are relying on anecdotal "evidence" regarding the origin of the two tomatoes which boils down to "they've been grown 'round these parts for 80 - 100 years, and we heard they come from the Indians," or "a particular tribe was known to have had a presence" in both areas from which the two different but similar looking tomatoes came ... therefore they are the same thing just grown in isolation. Now a couple more things to consider ... Both Cherokee Purple and Indian Stripe were 80 to 100 years removed from their supposed Native American origins when they each came as seeds to the gardens of the persons who eventually set them into the SSE collection. During that 80 - 100 years that both Indian Stripe and Cherokee Purple grew independently and 500 miles distant of each other in the gardens of European-Americans, does anyone suppose that no changes occurred in each variety other than the ever so slight size difference and cluster counts? Is everyone assuming the two separate tomatoes we're talking about really remained stable and true to type for 80 - 100 years? Do we know that no cross pollination occurred? No mutations? No evolution of any sort? Come on folks ... in the 10 - 20 years these two types have been in common circulation, at least one of them (CP) has some changes in appearance and exhibitions of instability ... i.e. Cherokee Black, Cherokee Green, and Golden Cherokee. I'm not a scientist. Can someone here who is a scientist please explain the protocol that should be followed when trying to prove that two independent but closely similar cultivars are of the same genetic stock (if that's the right term) ... you know ... to where one can with something approaching certainty say that one of the cultivars "is an excellent example of (the same) variety that was grown in isolation for many years" other than simply because "(a particular ethnic group) were known to have a presence in (both regions from which the two separate cultivars came)." Okay, that's it for me. Y'all feel free to wander off into other "google-formed" fairytales, or take the discussion into irrelevant territory again....See MoreWILD selections of North American native herbaceous perennials
Comments (2)You have listed what appears to be what we call "Nativars", or plants that have been selected from wild collected seed and then bred to stabilize those characteristics the person found desirable characteristics. There is some beating of the drums of disagreement about their use in the Native plant growing community. I am unsure about the purpose of your thread. Are we just to list natives that we grow or natives that we know are straight species with a trade marked name in quotes tacked on. That also happens. People will take a certain population of a plant and tack their special name on the plant. Muhlenbergia emersleyi "el Torro" is one that comes to mind.In the wild it is bullgrass so it is not much of a stretch....See MoreWhat kind of trees are these?(North American native)
Comments (14)Yes, could be red elm-Ulmus rubra, rock elm-U. thomasii, or the afore-mentioned U. americana, but there's not enough tree being shown to tell. Also not especially helpful is holding the leaf of one species in amongst the twigs and foliage of the other! Norway male is highly invasive, being only one tier under those species that produce fruit which gets carried for miles by birds and other wide-ranging carriers. It can really out-muscle a lot of species once it gets going in moist, shady areas. Sun or shade, of course. That's my ranking, anyway, and depending on where you are, NM might be the worst issue going on....See Moredisneynut1977 ~ Melissa
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15 years agodisneynut1977 ~ Melissa
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