Well, it's too bad she's not ready to move on things yet. Even without fori's amazing range. BTW, did you know those sell for 6 to 8K at the specialty shops on this coast, fori? You could have a second career. In just one day I was able to dig up these--wouldn't they make a darling kitchen? You'd have to have a larger companion or two made to the side piece, but how Florida these colors are. Range (considering electric as well as gas, since gas availability varies in those neighborhoods--not worth it if she has to foot the bill to run service, and unfortunately a lot of the area is the kind of neighborhood where people would steal propane). I just lost my heart to the color scheme here, although we could have something else redone in the same buttercream+sea green, I suppose: Hoosier with side (original paint). Small, but with a repro side or two, could work: Reproduction cast iron sink. There are lots of old ones, but there was a problem with getting iron reporcelained recently, so this would be the fallback if we can't find a real one in good condition or a steel one that can be redone. Would love an old one in buttercream yellow, though. Not bad for less than a day's worth of looking around, and the total cost of everything including modern fridge and re-enameling a vintage table to match would be under 5K, even with repairs and shipping.

Lisa, I can see where you are confused. When I said our youngest son "treats us wonderful", I mean he calls every night, he visits frequently, we go out to eat together, he calls when I'm sick, etc. He does things a son should do to show love. Our oldest son seldom calls us, seldom comes to visit, never knows when we've been gone a week on vacation, etc. I should have said he treats "me" wonderful. His dad rarely calls either one of our sons, until I remind him he hasn't called them in months. He doesn't even know our youngest son's home phone number. Maybe this is just a man thing, but something I'm not used to. Re: the one acre. This acre of land was given to our son strictly by me, not my DH. For years, I have asked my DH to sell this big house so we could get out of debt before retirement, and we could pay cash for a nicer/smaller home. We had this one acre to build on. He said he would NEVER build a house on that lot and to never ask him again (we had this land surveyed as two lots and this one acre is a corner lot and he doesn't like corner lots). One day when our youngest son was visiting, I said, "why don't you build on this acre and start building up equity in a home, and quit paying rent?" I was surprised when he later called me and said he did want to build on this acre. Surprised because he left our home because he couldn't get along with his dad (a combination of youth on his part and depression/anger on DH's part). I felt like I was doing something good; to help him get a start in life. I won't even go into the negative comments I have heard from my DH (my son knows nothing about these comments and never will, but I'm sure he knows his dad has said things. He doesn't need to know "words" that would hurt him that come from a mentally ill person. He even asked me not to tell him anything negative his dad said. I know his dad is happy for him, as he walks over to the land daily to see what progress is being made, and today wanted to buy him a refrigerator for his home, and that's a lot of money. (This is what depression does to you; the mood swings. I never know when he's going to have a good day or a bad day). I have learned to realize that a lot of things he says, I know he doesn't mean or doesn't realize what he is saying. I also have learned not to get hurt so much over his words and a lot of times I ignore what he says. How else would I be able to live with him so long? LOL! Re. the comment: "neither one of our sons have a good relationship with their father", that is very true! Neither one of our sons would go to their dad with any problem they have. I don't call that a "good" relationship, do you? A son can treat a parent "wonderful", and still not have a good relationship. By "good" relationship, I mean a "close" relationship. There is no doubt he loves his dad, but the closeness I have with my sons, he doesn't have this. I think this is because of his depression and the mood swings brought on by depression. Re: grandchildren. I don't think I have posted anywhere that I am "without" grandchildren. I would never deny my grandchildren. I may not get to see them much at my house, but I have a 6 yr. old granddaughter and a 15 mo. old grandson. I think you are confused as when I said "I want to build a smaller home and be a grandmother", I meant I will finally get to be a "grandmother" when my youngest son has children, to be able to paint the spare bedroom pink or blue, and put a swing set in my yard. (Of course, all this depends on my DH's behavior; and whether they can even have children. He is real close to his fiance & I see a wedding next year. She is moving to his new home as well.) Last summer we went to one of our granddaughter's ballgames and my DH was going to walk to the concession stand with her. Our DIL pitched a fit and told me "she is NEVER to go anywhere with him!" I felt this very rude, and I don't know who heard her. You could see the concession stand from where we were standing, it was very close. She asked him to go with her to get some bubble gum. In Feb. our youngest son invited me to go the circus with them, as he was taking our granddaughter to the circus. Our son said, Mom, I know you have talked so much about wanting to go to the circus, Barnum & Bailey. I said, sure. When our DIL got to his apartment with our granddaughter, she refused to speak to me! I had done nothing to her. She told our son in the parking lot before they came inside that "she wasn't told I was going". This upset me so much, I couldn't hold the tears back. She stormed in his apartment, totally ignoring me, and they left after she told our son "we will be here to pick her up". I told them "oh, there's no reason for you to have to get out at 12:00. I'll drop her off." I followed them to their car, she got in with our grandson, and I asked my oldest son, "why can't I bring her home?" He just said we'll come get her, and he got in the car and left. He seemed embarassed, and he didn't know what to say to me. He had to do what she said, regardless of who it hurt, and just left me standing there in the parking lot. Since this circus incident, I have not been to their house much. So there is more than one side to all this mess - my DH's depression and behavior and my DIL's control/anger, sometimes unwarranted by both of them, and me just going with the flow. I hope this helps clear up any confusion. I am just trying to live one day at a time, not knowing what tomorrow will bring. I am not unhappy in my marriage as someone has suggested. We have a lot of wonderful days and a lot of good times together. I am unhappy mostly because of this difficult situation and longing to be a grandmother. I just wasn't willing to "give" if they weren't going to "give", but after reading these replies, I don't feel like I have any other choice. Maybe if I give first and show them more love, they will slowly start caring more. All the replies I have received has helped me realize that unless I change myself, I am going to be missing out on a lot of closeness with my grandchildren and I would have no one to blame except myself. There are many days I get off work early and I could head toward my DIL's house. I say I have no hard feelings toward her, but I have a lot of resentment, so I just stay away. My DH works both Sats. & Suns. and I have plenty of time. p.s. I have never asked if I could take our granddaughter to McDonalds or anywhere with just the two of us because I have always felt guilty doing that behind my husband's back, as I know he would never be allowed to do this. I feel like that would be mistreating him by me doing that, so maybe I need to change my way of thinking on this.

amasake, I spent (wasted) seven years with someone that didn't 'love' me but let me raise his children. (he wasn't all that interested in raising them himself) He was more concerned with what he needed, than what I or even his kids needed. After I left (and he gave up after a year of trying to get me back), he married the next girl that came around. His kids were entering their teens then and his wife didn't want anything to do with his kids. She had her own and then got him to have two more with her (twins). His kids pretty much raised themselves and left home as soon as they could. One of my biggest regrets is leaving before the kids were grown or not maintaining a relationship with them. The only choice I had to maintain the relationship with them was to go back to their dad. I was the only mom that 'mothered' them. If you were to say you have a relationship with his son, I would tell you to think about that before leaving, but it doesn't sound that way. My point? What I would say is that you can't fix someone else's problems. It's not even a matter of whether he loves you or not. He sounds too focused on himself that he doesn't see what his son needs anymore than he sees what you need. I feel very sorry for his son because it sounds like he's given up on his parents and just wants to get old enough to escape the hell they have created for him. (just like my ex's kids) The worst feeling I've ever had was to wake up at 29 and realize I wasted my 20's, raising six kids and being with someone that didn't love or appreciate me. (I was 22 when we got together & I had 3 kids plus his 3)

--" I dont yell at her for anything or ground her from anything unless she keeps pushing her moms buttons over an extended period of time."-- And then you 'yell' and react. --" If i do tell her something my wife says she is scared of me thats why she is always in her room."-- Followed up with --"Like i said i dont hollar or yell at her at all and she has probably only been grounded by me 3 or 4 times in her life."-- You're saying two different things. First, you only 'yell' IF, then you dont 'hollar or yell at all'. Could be the child is not 'pushing her mothers buttons' but rather deliberately pushing yours. And she's learned just how to do it. Get Mommy to see me mas the 'victim' and side with me against 'HIM'. Unfortunately, after five years of learning to manipulate them household, I doubt counseling is going to do the girl much good now. She knows exactly what and why she does what she does. Counseling for Mom I think would be the place to start. As one poster above said above, once that mother could 'see' what was going on and accept her role in it, the child started behaving better. I totally agree that a child needs discipline. Structure and house rules. In your case, Mom, does not agree with yours or my opinion on that. The more you push the idea the more both child and mother rebel against it. If you can't get your wife to agree (see) that there is a problem and that she is a part of it and how it developed, then at least think about hetting counseling for yourself. One begins to wonder why you're allowing yourself to be totally disrespected by not only the child but your wife (Mom lets her do what you've grounded her from when you're not home?) Pfft. With that kind of parenting coming from the mother it is a total matter of time before your young toddler son (very impressonable age) begins to see Dad as the guy to ignore too. Why not, Mommy and sister do? Fix yourself first. Find out why you tolerate being the '11 yr old' in your home. (Ima stated some sound points. Why does a kid that all but spits at you have tv and computers in her bedroom?) Find out why and what you get out of this relationship and if it's one you really thenn desire to continue with. You can't 'fix' other people. Nope, can't make Mommy parent. Can't make child learn better than what she's being taught. But you can take steps that might make the situation better for you.