do a google search on "thermador customer service" and then determine if you want to take the chance that you'll ever have to deal with them. do they same for Miele, and you'll likely notice a world of difference.

additionally, my thermador ovens just plain didn't work (even the replacement didn't work). they eventually bought them back from us, but only after a year of fighting, missed work for repairs, and all-around incompetence and frustration, and only after i hinted at legal action.

Here is a link that might be useful: thermador customer service

Before worrying too much about matching stainless, figure out how close the different pieces will be to each other. From across the room you probably can't tell unless they're way off. Next to each other might be really noticeable and bug you.

Do a search here to find out how people liked various verions of stainless. Some are great. Some show every fingerprint. Some take magnets and some don't. Etc. See if any of these issues are important to you.

I really get the oven that looks so cool, but do check that you like the way it functions, too. In order to get the function I want, I'm using five or six different brands. Most will be paneled, so matching isn't as much of an issue, but there're still three different stainlesses, in three different parts of the kitchen. I'm not happy with the color of the (black) cooktop I'm getting, but the nice colored ones aren't as functional for me, and I'm putting cooking first.

We also mixed brands & paneled/integrated some appliances. Our wall countertops, hoods & backsplash at range & cleanup sink, & our cleanup sink are all stainless steel. We chose the same manufacturer for our oven stack because they are obviously next to each other. We've had these appliances almost two years & are very happy with them:

Refrigerator, freezer, undercounter icemaker: SubZero
All gas range: DCS 36"
Cooktops flanking range: Gaggenau induction & teppanyaki
Wall ovens: Gaggenau Combi-steam & Convection (side opening)
Dishwasher: Miele Excella
Microwave & speed cooker: GE Monogram Advantium 240

I'd be concerned about a combo microwave & oven appliance as a number of forum people have reported repair or replacement issues if the MW dies. It's much easier & less expensive to replace a microwave alone.

Tommy275

I have looked at the Miele line and it's not the look I am looking for. It's too european/contemporary for our kitchen design.

I will dig around some more as far as your claim that Thermador's customer service stinks. I hadnt seen much of that when going back several years of reading posts on this board.

What do you plan on doing with your appliances? I mean in particular! Like do you entertain a lot? Host every Thanksgiving? Might need double ovens, an extra dishwasher, and a small beverage center fridge. Are you older and retiring here? Look into ergonomically sensible appliances like multiple single dishwasher drawers placed high to save your back, or ovens that are hinged on the side instead of the bottom.

CajunMike, you can get any kind of look you want with an integrated or paneled dishwasher, and you can use the same pull(s) as your cabinets. I agree that design is important, but so is the function.

Wife and I are in our early 40s. It's just the two of us and we are not gourmet chefs but the home is in the price range that requires high end appliances and I have always wanted a gas range or range top.

We don't bake much and I cant recall a time where I thought we needed two ovens rather than one. That said, with this new home, with a swimming pool, I believe we will be entertaining more.

I hope you're looking into a good outdoor grill...that can make up for an oven and would get used a heck of a lot more!

I am surprised at the opening statement of your OP, that this forum said that "if they would do all one brand of kitchen appliances Thermador would be a great start because all of their products are either at or near the top in each category." Really? My impression from this forum is that first, Thermador is considered not to be very good, with the exception of its refrigerator columns, and 2nd, that there aren't many people on this forum who would recommend going all one brand in a kitchen.

As others have already said, you'll do better not worrying about staying with the same brand, but rather pick individual brands on each appliance for their strength in that particular appliance.

The Thermador 48" fridges have had poor reviews, but meanwhile, the columns are deemed to be excellent, plus you can configure them exactly how you'd like (i.e. your architect's advice is good). Re the dishwasher - as you note, the Thermador is a rebadged Bosch. Save the upcharge for the Thermador name and buy the Bosch, then panel the dishwasher, since a dishwasher is particularly prone to unsightly drips down the front of its door. Great choice on the Wolf rangetop.

As to the wall oven/MW combo, I want to echo Gizmonike's point. It has been repeatedly reported on this forum that microwaves these days are expendable commodities, which tend to have 3-5 year lives (unlike the older ones that last forever). The magnetron goes out, or the display dies, or the turntable stops turning, whatever. If the MW part of that Thermador combo you want breaks, you are pretty stuck. Even if it can be serviced, you will have to wait around for parts, the repair guy, etc. Since MW's are so cheap now, you should buy one separately, and treat it like an expendable commodity since that's how the manufacturers regard them. Also, I believe that the MW portion of that Thermador oven/MW combo is made by Sharp. You can buy a Sharp convection MW for about $475, or a Sharp MW without convection for about $120.

Here are a couple of threads about MW's:

Thread about MW's

Thread about Where to Place MW

For the wall oven, well, if I had the budget, I'd kill for a Gaggenau. The absolute top wall oven on the market IMHO. It has the European look that you don't want, and it has the great side opening door (why doesn't every brand offer that?). Please don't take this the wrong way, I mean to harm, but your comment about not wanting a wall oven cause it is "too european/contemporary for our kitchen design" makes no sense to me. A wall oven IS an appliance after all. It sounds like your house is going to be brand new too. No one hesitates to have a big flat-screen TV on the wall of a traditionally-furnished living room and not think a thing wrong with that, so how is a wall oven different? If your budget can take it, that European look Gaggenau oven will be an asset to your kitchen, regardless of its decor. Plus, if you are saying your home is in a certain high price range, that Gaggenau will add tasteful bling. Anyone will know who sees that Gaggenau that you've spent a lot!

Don't get the Oven/MW combo. As already said, one part will break and you'll have the headache of dealing with that. BTW, I think the MW on that Thermador combo is by Panasonic, not Sharp. I really like the Panasonic MW's a lot; you should get one, but get it as a separate unit.

I forgot to add to my previous post that I recommend you go to a store or showroom that has a working Thermador wall oven. You should listen to one while it is on. Although all wall ovens these days have fans, and the fans are somewhat noisy, the Thermador wall ovens' fans are significantly noisier than other comparable wall ovens. Don't take my word for it; check it out yourself.

regarding the looks of the thermador vs miele, the thermador masterpiece looks pretty much exactly the same as the miele, but the miele doesn't have a lot of buttons with useless settings like "pizza". i don't see much of a difference vis-a-vis European style.

i'm not recommending miele if you're budgeting for thermador. miele is almost twice the price.

with regard to complaints about thermador's customer service, i supplied a link to a google search. you may find that the whole of the internet provides a bigger sampling size than these forums.

i also agree with the sentiment that thermador isn't necessarily considered top or close to it in its class, especially given the widely documented issues with their products (again, not necessarily on this forum).

if you spend 25k on one company, you may very well find yourself kicking yourself. if you buy from manufacturers that are truly the top in their class, at least you mitigate the issues involved in being stuck with the same useless servicer for your entire kitchen. the flip side is that you may get lucky, nothing will break, and you'll be very happy. but that's an expensive gamble, and one that doesn't make much sense to my mind given that no manufacturer makes the best (or close to it) of every appliance.

take that for what it's worth, as i (and most here), don't have any vested interest in your actual choices, but rather we just want to share our experiences and thought processes.

Thanks to all of you for your responses... I'm getting an education. I simply did a search for Thermador and obviously I missed lots of posts with negatives.

What do you guys recommend for 48 inch built in fridges and what do you recommend for single and double wall ovens?

Right now it seems my only wise choices are the Wolf range top and Bosch dishwasher. ;)

What, no mention of a hood?

I have to stress you out more and say that many people on this Forum would agree that the hood selection is the most difficult of the appliances. You have to think about its placement, the duct size (8 or 10 inches please), duct length, hood width (for your 36" rangetop, a 42" wide hood would be ideal, but 36" wide would be OK), baffles or mesh filters (get the baffles), correct number of cfms, and of course, appearance. Will the hood canopy be stainless or glass, or custom wood, cabinet panels or plaster? And then there is the option of having the blower be in-line or externally remotely mounted. And don't get me started on Make-up Air needed by the new tighter houses (your architect can help with that).

Having said ALL THAT, I recommend you look at the Independent hoods. Independent used to make the hoods for Wolf until Wolf decided to make their own in-house. They make a nice product that will look good with your Wolf rangetop. If you are going for the traditional look that is customize-able, check out Modern-Aire.

By the way, I totally understand where the Euro look does and doesn't fit and why you don't want it in your kitchen. Style is important too--you see your oven more than you use it, after all. (I've ruled out putting a Gaggenau next to Bluestar because they would look incongruous together.)

Unless your appliances are next and I mean NEXT to each other, different shades of stainless won't be apparent, but the style isn't going to dissappear.

Depending on your layout, though, you can stick a slick European style oven in there without it being too obvious. If you're still working on layout, try the kitchen forum.

akchicago, I am wanting to put in a copper hood, but I havent done much research into the internals.

Here are three that I really like. ;)

http://www.mountainsedgecopperart.com/copper_hoods/Copper_Hood/blackened_copper_straps.jpg

http://www.mountainsedgecopperart.com/copper_hoods/Copper_Vent_Hood/hammered_kitchen_range_hood.jpg

http://www.mountainsedgecopperart.com/copper_hoods/Copper_Kitchen_Hood/ornamental_copper_rooster_range_hood.jpg

Wow, those hoods are gorgeous! Do try to get it to be 42" wide for your 36" rangetop if you can.

To make it easier for others to view your hood pics, I'll link them directly below:

Blackened Copper with Straps Hood

I like the one with the straps. Will the hammered copper be hard to wipe down? I don't know.

Will the fabricator of those hoods also be supplying the liner and blower? If not, I know a lot of posters here like the Presitge liners.

Also, don't believe any salesperson who claims a certain hood/liner is quieter than all others. There are to many variables that affect noise level, particularly duct size and length. And the fact is, anything moving a lot of air at eye level is going to be noisy. So, if you want to reduce noise (and spend more money, natch!), look into getting an inline blower or even an external blower. Tho, careful about the external blower which will be mounted on the outside of your house; depending upon where it's mounted it could be unsightly and noisy on your patio or outdoor space. That's why some people do an inline blower and silencer. Do a search for threads by a poster named Clinresga who installed a Modern-aire hood with a Fantech inline blower and Fantech silencer, and is a very enthusiastic proponent of that system.

Going to your other appliance choices, I would go with a Wolf or Gaggenau wall oven. The Mieles do perform flawlessly, but for me, there is too much gadgetry with the Miele wall ovens - just MHO. I too am on the side of not worrying about whether your appliance looks too contemporary. You can't get around the fact that it is a new wall oven, and it's kinda nutty to pretend your wall oven is "olde worlde". Might as well just get the best performer, and then go for the "olde worlde" look with one of those hoods. For the fridge/freezer, I think the Thermador columns are awesome; love the doors particularly. As to a MW, well, I put my Sharp MW on a shelf in my pantry out of sight. I am not a big user of a MW, and don't want to look at it particularly. I also only spent about $120 on it, and really like it.

HTH

I should add, don't feel you HAVE to get an inline blower and/or silencer. Most people don't, actually. It's just an "extra" to make your kitchen more wonderful, and if you have room in the budget. My hood is somewhat noisy, and it's not that big of a deal; I just live with the noise while it's exhausting the smoke and grease, so what. I am more concerned that it work well.

akchicago, thanks for all of that info...

My kitchen is going to have the look of the one linked below and I cant imagine a Miele wall oven mounted in there.

I will have wood floors and won't have stone walls though.

{{gwi:1373040}}

That exact same Viking Range in your photo would look great with the copper hoods. Are you doing the rock walls in your kitchen? Wow! Neat. I live in the California Gold Country where Chinese built lots of building out of stacked rock in the Gold Mining Era.

Most of the business's have torn out all the updates to reveal the stunning stone walls.

Sorry, I guess I am just not a fan of the faux distressed cabinet look in a new home. That's just me, and that's likely why I like the look of the Gaggenau's and the Wolfs. So if you are not doing the stone walls, you're going to have drywall, right?

I might have to look into the cost of doing those stone walls... I don't imagine it's cheap. ;) I already have a faux finisher lined up to do my cabinets in a similar green. I will have wood floors in the kitchen that will be a medium walnut color.

{{gwi:1373041}}

Just me (and I know this comment probably belongs in the kitchen forum) but I wouldn't want my kitchen to look like something in a design showroom.

yeah chipshot. Who wants a kitchen that looks great. What am I thinking, ugly is what's in right now. ;)

I'm sure you can find appliances that work with your style that function just fine. A Gaggenau would be wrong; the clunkier pro-style stuff just "goes" better. You're definitely right to avoid the "modern European" style.

Aga, on the other hand...

Okay, this is where I'm at right now. Let me know if you think I'm on target now. The only thing I'm unsure about it where to go refrigeration wise if I can't make the Thermador Freedom columns work in my kitchen. What's the best fridge quality wise if going with a side-by-side while not having the stomach to pay Sub Zero money. Kitchen Aid or Jenn Air pro? I have a two year old Jenn Air in my current kitchen (Amana with the fancy handles).

Also, is it a no-no to do a built in look and have the water and ice in the door? I know it looks better without but man I'm going to hate to have to open a door to get ice and water.

Appliance worksheet

Option 1

1. Wolf Range top RT366
2. Wolf single or double wall oven SO30F/S - Classic Stainless Framed or DO30F/S - Classic Stainless Framed
3. Sharp microwave in kitchen island
4. Thermador dishwasher (Bosch) DWHD64EP
5. Thermador freedom collection fresh food and freezer columns

Option 2

Wolf Range DF366 - 6 burners
Sharp microwave in kitchen island
Thermador dishwasher (Bosch) DWHD64EP
Thermador freedom collection fresh food and freezer columns

Range vs. separate rangetop and ovens is a personal choice. We're happy with our Wolf RT364C and DO30U/S. Are you putting the MW in the island for cosmetic or functional reasons? You may want to use the same decision-making factors to help you decide what to do regarding water and ice in the R/F door.

My guess is that your kitchen won't end up looking like something from a spec house (which is what most of what I've seen in design showroom displays reminds me of).

Cajunmike,
Although not my personal taste, I think the Viking range looks completely run in that style kitchen. I would look at Aga, La Cornue, Lacanche and other brands along that line. I know this is one inspiration picture but the hood and range don't match the rest of the kitchen. I think the commercial style ranges will be out of place because of that stainless piece that is always there no matter what color you choose and the knobs are out of place. Just one person's opinion. I like you choice of appliances and would suggest you look at HandCrafted Metals for your copper or copper inspired hoods. I would reconsider the Thermador dishwasher and get the comparable Bosch or Miele instead. Thermador complaints have abounded lately and the same has not been true for Bosch. You can also save a little bit of money there especially if you follow any of my recommendations for a range:-)

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Just in case you were not familiar with LaCanche

Homepro01

The only thing that I'm striving for in that kitchen photo is the green distressed cabinets. I wont be having a tile or stone floor or stone walls. I also plan on having a copper hood which are linked midway up in this thread. I will look into the brands you mentioned.