Speaking of birds vs squirrels....recently while on vacation my husband and I heard a familar hawk scream and started looking around for a red-shouldered, a local and very vocal resident here at home. It came swooping in from our left and headed for the top of a nearby tree...and then the squirrel attacked. I have never seen this before but I promise you we had front row seats. That silly little brushytail scampered straight up and across some thin branches in the adjoining tree and then LEAPED at the hawk. I am completely serious. THe hawk flapped away with a bit of a surprised screech and then continued its usual keeeee-yah keeee-yah as it made for a different perch. I have heard that predators that are not in the mood to hunt or eat can be driven off or even killed by prey animals in weird circumstances. Somone once told me that if you put a live mouse or a rat in a cage with a snake that is not hungry or in a mood to kill, it can harm or even kill that snake. Is this true?? I do know that despite being a bit smaller than a red tail, a red-shouldered hawk is still big enough to pose a risk to a squirrel in my opinion.. Very weird.

Perhaps a Gilbertson PVC box for the dees? My dees have chosen PVC boxes over wooden ones for the past 3 seasons (actually as long as I have been monitoring them). I place the PVC boxes near the forest edge vs the open areas that the blues like. Actually, even though this is a BB forum, I have a special place in my heart for the dees as I have at least 6 that stay with me year round. They recognize me and don't fly off when I refill the feeders. Even when I monitor their boxes, the mamas fuss at me from a short distance away.

> If you can install 240v for your dryer or wall oven why not for your car? You can, of course, if you own a detached house or townhouse. But this question unintentially illustrates the point I was trying to make - even though it's possible to install a 240V outlet, convincing people to do so has proven difficult even when the speed advantage is obvious. The GE Advantium 120 ovens far outsell the 240v versions, even though the latter make better tasting, better textured food (because they don't rely as heavily on microwaves), and also are twice as fast. But many homeowners put up with the limitations of 120V/15A because they don't want to pay an electrician to install a 240V/30A line. Same with 240V washing machines - they can be fed cold water and still are faster than 120V machines that have internal water heaters, and can heat to higher temperatures. The best way to wash clothes is often to soak it in cool water first (so certain types of stains won't set), then heat the water as it washes to a high temperature that blasts out dirt. This takes a long time with a 120V washer. Combination washer/dryers that both wash and dry the clothes in one shot are popular in Europe, but here most manufacturers don't even offer them, and those that do, like LG, try to make them run on 120V/15A to be palatable to Americans. So not only does it take a long time to wash clothes, but an even longer time to dry them. Only Fagor-Brandt sells a 240V combo washer/dryer in the US, and it's hard to find except online. Nobody even sells a 240V dishwasher in the US, and noboby's brave enough to try, despite frequent complaints about how long new dishwashers take to complete a cycle. Maybe Americans value fast electric car recharging more than they do fast cooking or fast laundry. We'll see.

I think your kitchen is really getting there! I like this layout and I think I prefer it in it's current location to putting it in the front of the house. Yes, you would have a fun window to use, but then again, it's in the front & you don't want everyone to see your dirty dishes (I think that was actually mentioned on the earlier thread). This layout truly makes your kitchen the "heart" of your home! Mudroom...sorry, but I think 4' is much too narrow. Our walk-in closet in our MBR is only 4' wide and even w/a hanging rod (2' space) only on the one side it's very tight...I cannot imagine trying to have kids in there trying to hang up backpacks, etc. You need, IMHO, at least 5'...more if you intend to have a hamper, trash, & recycle bins. I strongly advise you to come up with a way to have a 4' space with tall "walls" and "try it out". Kitchen...you say you want to be able to see out the back windows when you prep...how will you if you have a wall w/cabinets all along that back wall (w/sink)? Or, will you only have a wall for the wall cabinets & have it open b/w the counter & upper cabinets? Is that also where you have your dishes & glasses? Trash can placement...while I prefer not to have a stand-alone can (dogs!) I can see how you might prefer it there. I wouldn't move the DW to the other side of the sink (would be a barrier to get to cooktop), but what if you put in a 24" recycle center to the left of the DW? Then you wouldn't need those cans in the mudroom and you would have the trash convenient to everyone w/o interfering with the kitchen work. MW & Oven...good placement for you. While I normally recommend the MW near the refrigerator, for you it appears to work better near the cooktop. It's still on the periphery, also good. Utility/Pantry...will 12" be enough room for the pantry? Remember you need to include room for the wall + doors and, if the utility closet is a cabinet, then you will also need a back wall (you don't want to mount shelves to the side of a cabinet that way...they're not designed for that.) I suspect you'll need at least 4" for the wall w/doors + 1" or 2" for a back wall...that leaves you with 6" or 7" for shelf space. If you're using a 12" deep pantry cabinet (do they make them?), you'll only need 3/4" for back wall + 3/4" for doors...so 10-1/2" for shelf space. Maybe I'm wrong...but I think you should look into it b/f you finalize the design.