James, I did not even know that there was an off-topic discussion. Yes, there was a lot of posting between Terry and myself, but I felt that anyone who wanted to post could.

The discussion just lead from house finches into basically why they were gone, then realizing all of the things that HOSP's do, like chasing off other birds (including House Finches). Then still on topic somewhat, was the interest of what could keep the HOSP away, foods (that is why I kept asking about different foods) and such other contraptions.

The only thing that really was completely "off topic" was the deck that I can see, and I posted about the deck only because I was letting him know how busy I was.

In absolutely no way did I feel that I could veer off-topic because I was the OP. So when you wrote "the OP thought they could veer off-topic because it was their post" that was not true.....

After seeing the HOSP take over my feeder I had other ones show me that HOSP will do this which lead to further conversations with Finches and other songbirds. Thus concluding "where did my house finches go".

I lost grackles (not that it was a huge loss) but I did not have them in large numbers maybe 5-6. They were pretty good birds and I liked the way they warded off danger with their alert sounds....makes me sad they left. Cardinals, Blue Jays, Doves and House Finches....most leaving too or rarely seen.

I am very sorry if some feel that this thread became an off topic thread as I do hate to cause problems, problems just seem to follow me.

I will stop posting on that thread altogether. But James, I have to say that you should have not been following the post if you were not interested in what is considered off-topic conversations. There were just some very nice people out there trying to help each other.

Are you a Moderator??

I am pretty much a newbie here, haven't been around very long, but I have seen the hostility that this site can bring on in some other forums here on gardenweb, and I hate it. I wish to bring none my way.

Again, I am sorry, it really doesn't take much for me to leave a web message board. It is not worth my time and energy to be spent on being humiliated. Especially when I am singled out in a thread that you created (here) because I was the OP (original poster) on a thread that you had to reference your topic too.

Happy Birding and Peace James :)

Love for nature i was really enjoying all the discussions on your post and i am so terribly sorry that you feel humiliated. Please dont leave, we do enjoy you questions and topics you bring up very much. I do beleive that is the reason we do not have as many posters as we could. A lot of people who love nature have terribly kind hearts and it is so easy to run them off because they are gentle people who do not wish to bicker and squabble over things that should be fun and enjoying. The main reason for the forums is because people want to meet and discuss subjects that they do have in common. You have done nothing wrong and should not feel like you have. It is free choice as to what some people want to read or participate in and they should not have to bend to the will of another person. If a topic is to long winded for some then they should just not read it and move elsewhere. Under the post it plainly states how many responses it has. If it has to many for some then they can just move elsewhere. Please dont give up because of a negative response or two. You can not please everyone just remember that the next time it happens :-) Terry is a lot of fun to talk too because she is very knowledgeable so please dont feel bad because you had a fun discussion. I personally enjoyed reading it very much. Hang in there, Bonnie

Lovefornature, I'm sorry if I sounded critical -- I didn't intend to criticize anyone. I get a bit off-topic, too, sometimes, so who am I to criticize? And I'm not a moderator. I don't see any evidence that there is a moderator, so I guess we set our own rules. But nobody talks about it, probably because they are afraid of offending others. I have mixed feelings about this off-topic issue, and wanted to see how others see the issue. So I decided to stick my neck out, as they say, and offer some ideas. I'm not telling anyone what to do.

Although the House Finch thread got me thinking about it, my remarks were meant to be about the issue in general. I'm sorry that my alluding to the House Finch thread was confusing. When I said "Sometimes the OP ... feels that they can change the topic, because it's their thread", I didn't mean you.

I am very sorry if some feel that this thread became an off topic thread as I do hate to cause problems...
It's not a big problem, maybe a little one, because it's hard to decide where to 'draw the line', sometimes. But Terryr made a good point when she said "We have veered off course somewhat, but that's where it always gets interesting". Please don't worry about it too much.

I will stop posting on that thread altogether.
Please don't stop posting; I enjoy reading your posts -- all of them.

I have to say that you should have not been following the post if you were not interested in what is considered off-topic conversations.
I said "I have enjoyed it in spite of the off-topic digressions". In retrospect, maybe that wasn't entirely clear. I enjoyed the off-topic digressions. too.

There were just some very nice people out there trying to help each other.
I want to be one of those people. I find that there are very few people that get truly hostile on this forum, and even those are only sometimes hostile. But because of those few, the rest are extra-sensitive. So sometimes someone like me says something that's not carefully enough worded, and someone else reads the worst from it.

I don't expect that every one will have the same preferences or will deal with off-topics the same way. It's just human nature that we have different styles of communication.

Actually, by following my own suggestions and making a off-topic post and on-topic post that link to each other, I found that it took extra work, and decided that it probably wasn't worth the extra trouble for minor digressions. Everyone will need to decide for themselves when a digression is 'minor' or 'major'.

I really want to hear other people's opinions and ideas on this. I knew the topic was sensitive, but I didn't expect to intimidate anyone.

James, I guess when you've been around GW for a long time like I have (since the late 90's), off topic is just a normal sequence. If you go to some of the really old posts that are still alive, you'll see a lot of them veered off, but then somebody new came on and asked a question and that got the thread back on track. I personally, don't mind a thread going off topic at all. I do feel it makes it more interesting. If you'll notice, the suggestions and comments forum is missing now. It's been missing for a long time, because all anybody did was to complain about one thing or another.

I think we all need to understand that our words are just words. There's no voice, no fluctuation, no body language to go along with what we're saying. Anymore, if I feel somebody is saying something totally inappropriate, I ask for clarification. They either come back and don't explain it correctly and I know my first instinct was correct, or they come back and apologize for not wording it correctly in the first place. I'm guilty of that myself! I've been in a hurry and just written something quick and to the point, but not using the correct words. And not thinking of how somebody else might take my words. The old saying about sticks and stones....but words do hurt our feelings. All of our feelings. I do come back and apologize though for not wording it like I should have.

I have seen so many people come and go, I forget that not everybody has been hanging around as long as I have! I don't browse over to the discussions side in any of the forums. I have fun talking and chatting within the threads in the forum, be it on topic or off topic. I don't plan on changing where I post. There's already way too many forums anymore here at GW, I honestly don't understand the problem when a thread goes off topic. I've heard people complain about posts in the forum that are off topic, but not when a thread goes off topic.

Finally, lovefornature, please don't go anywhere. James has explained his thinking in what he said and somewhere in there, I'm sure is an apology for not being clear. There's always going to be somebody who doesn't like something about GW, be it some of the people, the posts or the way the conversation goes. I acknowledge what James is saying, but I don't agree. Not at all. The finch thread is your thread and it can go any way you want it to go. If you want it to go back on topic because somebody objects, then veer it back. If you don't care, then the person who objects can choose not to read it anymore and they can start a new post on whatever they choose. It's when people get too picky and complain, that a lot of people choose to go elsewhere. Then GW slows way down and becomes somewhat boring because of the lack of posts and conversations within the thread.

I don't know about anybody else, but when I call a friend for a specific reason, we always end up talking about a lot of other things. Same way in the threads. If my question is answered, then really, what difference does it make that now the conversation has gone off from I initially called for? Or asked in a thread?

Hmm...I said finally already up there, but I guess it wasn't really my final thought. This is though.....and again to James, I don't feel you stepped on any toes. There are no hard and fast rules here at GW except for arguing. That isn't tolerated. Off topic threads however, are entirely different and if you don't want to read them, then move on to the next post. I've done that when a subject grabs my attention, but it isn't what I thought it was...so I either hit the back button or the "Return to".....and go find another post to read. If this whole forum was taken up with things not relating to birds, then I understand, but it isn't.

Oh my gosh, I am sorry that everyone thought I meant I was leaving. I am not leaving.

If I remember right, I stated something like if things get to be TOO OTT and hostile, I would leave. I have done this on other website message boards, because I do not feel that it is worth staying around for. Bickering is not really my thing, and yes, I admit I am very sensitive. I have read quite a bit around this forum and some things I run into are quite a shocker to read.

I do remember stating that I would not post anymore under the thread that I started.

I am so sorry that some took it that I was leaving.

I do think that my thread was very interesting to probably a lot of people, just because of all of the different subject matter contained in it. I know that I learned a lot from it.

Bonnieblueyes, I will check my e-mail :)

Terry, nice to hear from you :) :)

Lovefornature, I'm glad you are not leaving. I was feeling so bad that I had accidently scared someone off the forum. And I was thinking that I had hijacked your thread without realizing it -- I'm sorry.

Terry, I wasn't criticizing the finch thread. It was just that the off-topic issue was on my mind, and when someone mentioned it on the finch thread, I took the opportunity to explore that issue. I should have just started a new thread about it, I realize now. The association of my posts with the finch thread gave the impression that my general ideas were directed at the rest of the thread. As I recall, it was very late at night when I started this, and maybe that was why I didn't use good judgement.

I started with mixed feelings about the subject. I knew about the Off-Topic Conversations section, but when others strayed off-topic I went along with them, and sometimes I did the same. I felt unsure about when to use the Off-Topic Conversations section. But I thought that if a On-Topic Discussion thread went off-topic enough (whatever that was) and needed to shift to the Off-Topic Conversations section, that there should be links both ways to connect the two threads.

Then I thought maybe people sometimes don't shift to the Off-Topic Conversations section because they are unsure of how to set up the links. So I thought I would try to help with that technical detail.

But all your responses have helped me understand the situation better. The one thing that puzzled me was when to shift to the Off-Topic Conversations section. But, Terry, your remarks have cleared that up for me. As long as it's a temporary digression that returns to the main topic, don't worry about it. But if you really want to discuss something at length, then that's probably a good reason to start another thread. (The 'other thread' could still be about birds, so it wouldn't always need to be in the Off-Topic Conversations section.)

But as I said, everybody can make their own judgement as to where to draw the line as to what is too far off topic. And since it is natural that we have different styles and personalities, we shouldn't be upset about others making different choices. But we should also be able to make suggestions without it being taken as commandments or criticism.

Again, thanks, all of you for your inputs, even your rebukes.

"The ear that hears the rebukes of life will abide among the wise." - Proverbs 15:31

I have also wondered if James is a moderator. He jumped all over me for a comment I made and BTW, the comment was directed towards a person who commented several times on this forum that she (and the people in her area) kill dogs who are running loose. If she had a problem with what I said, that is fine if she responds, but James has nothing to do with it and not sure why he had to put his two cents in because his opinion doesn't concern me at all. If people get OT and you get bored with reading it, quit reading it! Let them say what they have to say to each other - are there rules that state otherwise? I am not a controversial person and never comment on anything but birds on this forum, but he does cross the line at times and again, if he doesn't like something someone said or if he feels that someone is OT, he should stop reading it and don't comment on it. Why the controversy? Let it go and let's talk about birds.

Well said Lori, thank you for the support of myself and others who have been in the same situation. I also do not feel that one should start controversy when it is really not necessary.

James: You are very uptight. Learn to relax on your off hours and whenever participating in leisure activities with other people, and by all means, find a job that makes use of your need for tight control and perfection of data or inanimate objects, but don't try it with people. You will always be disappointed.

I don't see any problem at all with off topic conversation. If I'm not interested I just don't read it. It's my choice. I'm not offended by it at all. It builds relationships on here.
Tammy

Gee - I just discovered the off-topic conversations forum here. I'll have to check and see if other forums have an off topic area too - more to read! :)

When a thread drifts off-topic here on Gardenweb, I barely notice. I love it when people write more and share more...sometimes people's comments are so brief it leaves me wanting more, but perhaps they are busy or they are worried about going off topic!

I did feel kind of bad about going on and on about Cherry trees on Konrad's Cedar Waxwing thread (the birds were eating Choke cherry berries) - don't want him to think I don't appreciate his photos! But I love trees as much as birds.

I have frequented another website for many years (not related to gardening) and it has much more conflict and trolls, and going off-topic is normal. Maybe that's partly why I spend more time on gardening websites these days - they are generally much more peaceful places to be.