BER - any chemists with thoughts on reacting lime with vinegar?

14 years ago

I've got Romas in self-watering containers with blossom end rot. Apparently they still got soaked by rain overhead and then I let them dry out too much. I've also been haphazard with mixing potting soil and they might have the wrong fertilizer.

I tried researching whether you could somehow use garden lime and make it more available. Unfortunately it's been 18 years since I took a chemistry class and don't quite understand it.

What I came up with was that acetic acid (which is the acid in vinegar) would react with garden lime (mostly calcium carbonate) to produce carbonic acid and calcium acetate.

The carbonic acid is just like the sodas you drink and carbon dioxide bubbles out and you are left with water. The calcium acetate is considerably more soluble than calcium carbonate.

Supposedly calcium acetate is more soluble in lower temperatures, which is different than other ones.

However, calcium acetate also binds phosphorous. So I don't know if I'd need to add a phosphorous fertilizer or if I did, if the byproduct of those would then be insoluble again.

And I don't know what proportions to use of vinegar/lime to totally neutralize each other, or what concentration to use on the plants.

So right now I am just going to experiment. May kill the Roma's that already have BER for all I know. I've been mixing vinegar and lime in a glass bowl with extra water. Stirring with a wire whisk and seeing how many bubbles are produced. Then I think I'm going to try stirring well then straining either with a flour sack or with a coffee filter.

Probably a better way to do this would be to contact someone I know who works as a chemistry teacher and ask them to give this out as an extra credit problem. But they wouldn't understand the agricultural needs.

Alice

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Comments (8)

mulio
14 years ago
I dont think the problem is so much the calcium available as the up in down in watering/drying.

I'd focus more on that issue while regularly feeding them dilute solutions of a fert which says on the label it contains calcium.
anney
14 years ago
Almost all romas are vulnerable to BER. BER is apparently related to genetics. Though you do what you can to make calcium more available, the problem is almost NEVER a lack of soil calcium. It's the plant's inability to take it up and use it.

Many tomato varieties have the disorder at the beginning of the season but eventually produce whole fruits.

So have fun and let us know if your experiment works!
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digdirt2
14 years ago
Agree with above. The needed calcium is likely already there, as much of the research shows it just wasn't mobilized at the proper time because of the watering problems - common to many of us given this rainy spring.

Plus Romas are prone to BER even under ideal circumstances. So IMO trying to get too chemically complex ;) will likely only make the problem worse rather than better.

Dave

PS: lots of previous discussions here on BER is you wish to review them for more info. Just search 'BER blossom end rot'.

Here is a link that might be useful: BER FAQ
ditnc
14 years ago
I guess we're getting into the BER season after all the effort to get the plants to bear fruit. I picked several obvious BER victims today (green babies) and it made me sad :( The Romas were the most affected.
gringojay
14 years ago
Hi aliceinvirginia,
Soak approximately 50 grams of any form of calcium carbonate/liter of white 5% acidity table vinegar from your food market.
Let stand 24 hours to dissolve.
Then slowly boil in stainless or pyrex vessel.
Strain to filter the residual solids from the liquid calcium acetate.
Fluid yielded from above amount of ingredients will have 15 -17 grams of Ca/liter.
Check the pH if you plan to concoct a fertigation solution, calcium acetate can be 7.5 pH; that's not acidic.
Phosphorus will bind with all forms of Ca in the course of time when mixed in a solution. This gives you a precipitate that can not be absorbed by the plant, Calcium Phosphate.
You will notice very few commercial liquid NPK fertilizers contain Ca; sitting on the shelf it is risking product degradation (& lost $ from returns).
Likewise, when you mix a liquid batch of NPK+Ca fertilizer make up what you plan to use in a reasonable time (instead of keeping it as a pre-mixed stock).
yardenman
14 years ago
This may sound strange, but have you considered putting a clear plastic tent over your tomatoes so that you can control the amount of rain they get? I get my best tomatoes under the roof overhang where I control the watering.
crashncowgirl
12 years ago
According to aggrand's liturature lime at a 300 mesh size is immediately available to plants. If you have s silk screen operation near you you may be able to get them to give or sell cheap a used screen. Metal screens are fairly cheap on eBay. Get a screen and fast acting lime screen out the big stuff and dilute you can heat to increase the amount in soulition let cool and spray. Also liquid ca like nutri-cal are not expensive. It can't hurt to set up a regular routine of calcium supplimentation. Most fast acting lime screens to 200 mesh there is still a good amount of smaller particals in there. I figure the larger the volume of lime per bag the smaller the particals. Try gypsum do some dumpster diving at your local home center or construction site soak the paper off and spread evenly
crashncowgirl
12 years ago
According to aggrand's liturature lime at a 300 mesh size is immediately available to plants. If you have s silk screen operation near you you may be able to get them to give or sell cheap a used screen. Metal screens are fairly cheap on eBay. Get a screen and fast acting lime screen out the big stuff and dilute you can heat to increase the amount in soulition let cool and spray. Also liquid ca like nutri-cal are not expensive. It can't hurt to set up a regular routine of calcium supplimentation. Most fast acting lime screens to 200 mesh there is still a good amount of smaller particals in there. I figure the larger the volume of lime per bag the smaller the particals. Try gypsum do some dumpster diving at your local home center or construction site soak the paper off and spread evenly

BER - any chemists with thoughts on reacting lime with vinegar?

Comments (8)

mulio

anney

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