What is your web address?

WWW.TheWormDude.Com

I'm excited about the possibilities because there are HUGE pricing gaps between the three most common systems.

A) Rubbermaid Tubs
B) Wiggly Ranch's
C) Wigwams

Obviously, the price keeps most of us from spending all that money on the higher end unit, especially when Rubbermaid Tubs work great! But, for the worm aficionado that wants to contain large amounts of worms and process large amounts of waste, there are few options.

I probably won't be able to blog about the status of this project until next week. I just was curious to see if this idea has merit in the worm community.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Worm Dude

I'll be interested in seeing how you progress. But what exactly do you mean by "higher end bin"? Taller? Bigger? Sturdier? More expensive?

Fom this forum I got the impression that the most prevalent stackable bins were the Can O' Worms (COW) and Worm Factory. As a citydweller with bad knees, I opted for the latter because it took up less floor space and I don't have to squat or bend down to care for it. Please keep these factors in mind as you develop your design.

Also, I notice that the Wriggly Wranch is only available via subsidized municipal composting programs. Does anyone know how that came about?

Folly

Hi Folly,

I'm in San Jose, Ca. we are neighbors!

By higher end, I mean bigger, sturdier, and of course, that means more cost. This won't be a $50 subsidized bin, but it won't be anywhere near the price of the $500-$600 Wxxxxx either.

I wanted a unit where I could maintain a large population of worms, and process a lot of castings. Unfortunately for me, I was born with two left hands, so building a quality unit by myself was out of the question.

Lots of us sell similar stackable systems to the Wriggly Wranch. If the Wriggly Wranch is only sold to municipalities, it is probably because it is an easy way to move a LOT of units without marketing to the general public. I've had them, and don't see anything special vs. other small stackables.

I'll keep y'all posted on our progress on my blog next week.

Hi, Neighbor!

Have you seen the Vermicomposters location map?
http://vermicomposters.com/

With the raised recyling consciousness and high numbers of internet users in the SF Bay Area I expected a higher concentration.

Folly

Here is a link that might be useful: Vermicomposters location map

Hi Folly!

Yep, I am on the Vermicomposters location map. Steven did a great job! Very innovative for sure!

I just came back from working with the Santa Clara County Master Composters...they host composting classes around the Bay Area almost every weekend. They bring me in to sell my worms in conjunction with them selling discounted worm bins.

I'm going to Full Circle Farms (Sunnyvale) this afternoon. Have you ever heard of it? They are looking for some help with a Vermi solution for the waste that they produce. Should be an interesting afternoon. I'm bringing the heavy artillary(My engineer friend)...to see what kind of industrial solution we can come up with.

Regards,

Jerry

Here is a link that might be useful: The Worm Dude

funny how waste reduction turns into consumerism in the good ol USA .... if you want a larger volume of castings and larger population of worms, all it takes is a very simple large outdoor worm bin, even an open windrow works well for commercial vermi operations in mild climates

but hey! if there wasn't folks willing to fritter away their money there wouldn't be that never-ending quest for the better mouse trap ... Rubbermaid tubs [or any plain container] do work well - best even

Bill

Hi Bill,

I'm going to challenge your statement big time.

Have you ever tried raising a large amount of worms in an open windrow?

Have you ever tried raising worms in windrows without manure (Maintaing a manure pile is not the most practical source in urban environments in which most of us live)?

Have you ever tried to process 50 pounds or more of castings in a week out of Rubbermaid tubs(or any plain container)?

Rubbermaid tubs have their purpose for sure, but are not practical for large processing requirements due to the PITA of separating the worms from the bedding.

Are you suggesting larger waste producing families, and/or small companies wanting to process large amounts of waste maintain 5 or 10 rubbermaid tubs?

If only things were that simple.

volume castings seperation

{{gwi:257091}}

yes there are people who use windrows for commercial worming - but note I said even, while suggesting a simple large bin, which is what I've been using for years, sans manures normally, as I compost primarily {{gwi:257816}} [produce market castoffs hot composted, then fed to worms] .... as a matter of fact, I'm a "Master Composter", and volunteer my time and expertise at our local compost education garden, where we give worms to folks who want to start a worm bin

I couldn't tell you how much I've harvested [many wheelbarrow loads] - in a day, not a week - but I can tell you that you won't get 50# of finished product [about what one 17 gal rubbermaid will hold] from anything that would have a chance of competeing with the existing "home" systems on the market .... especially if you mean converting the feed stock to finished castings in one week

but you miss the point - do we solve the worlds waste disposal problems [massive] by making yet more products [contracted to China to keep the price down and profit up] that folks can think will solve all their management problems while actually generating yet more waste? who are these "aficionados"? maybe the types who'd buy a really "high end" vermi setup??

the tone of your initial few posts is all about finding a way to get into selling a product for a good profit, this forum is all about vermicomposting, and advertising one's business and products isn't allowed .... sorry I can't get enthusiastic about consumerism

Bill

Bill,

If your current unit works great for you...fantastic! Use it, have fun.

I happened to notice the advertisement for your apple squeezing business for sale in your profile. Now there is a bit of consumerism that has NO place on a Vermicomposting forum.

Question for you? Why did you include the link to a harvester for worms casting separation? Everyone knows that's how they are pulled from a windrow...but that has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand. We are discussing a sub $500 solution.

There are many people trying to develop homemade flow through bins, so obviously there is a great deal of interest in them. Not everyone is handy, or has the time or energy to make one of these units.

Have a great retirement. I hope you make a ton of money selling your business...but the world has enough policeman.

dude, you're flailing about like a dying fish

what's on my business website has not been mentioned on the forum, nor is there any advertisement in my profile [you're free to NOT follow the link] and in case you didn't "happen to notice", it's a service business, I don't sell products, I help folks reduce waste .... and unless they've changed it recently, GardenWeb invited you to put your homepage in your profile too, that's not "advertising" .... and they also state No advertising is allowed in any of the forums

"Why did you include the link to a harvester for worms casting separation? Everyone knows that's how they are pulled from a windrow...but that has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand"

YOU: "I'm bringing the heavy artillary(My engineer friend)...to see what kind of industrial solution we can come up with."
YOU: "Have you ever tried raising a large amount of worms in an open windrow?"
YOU: ".... process 50 pounds or more of castings in a week ..."
YOU: ".... small companies wanting to process large amounts of waste"

ME: large amounts of waste looks to be the "topic at hand", a product that would compete with "sub $500 solutions" is what's off-topic, so I'm just pointing out that vermicomposting is the mousetrap, not "new and improved" products [for small scale worming]

I totally agree the world is over policed - unfortunately that seems to be a result of folks who insist on breaking the rules for personal gain - here that's called advertising, and GW deals with it, not me

Bill

This is an interesting discussion.

If advertising is not allowed on this forum, then that is a valid argument. However, it seems from casual reading of this forum that you spend a lot of time shooting down other people's ideas when they don't match up exactly with your own strict worldview.

I would say that consumerism is bad, but very few people can live completely clean lifestyles. How many people actually live "off the grid" relying solely on "freegan" eating and "freecycled" possessions? If there are commercial products that make vermicomposting easier, I would say that is still a net benefit for the environment and the growth of environmentalism. Is it as good as if someone searched out a used plastic barrel and spent hours converting it to a homemade flow-though composter? No, but not everyone is willing or able to do such projects.

If it weren't for a commercial worm bin that my county sells, I never would have gotten into using worms to compost my garbage. Making my own bin and sorting castings by hand instead of having the upward stacking tray feature of my commercial bin would have seemed too complicated for me to start vermicomposting. But since then as I have gotten familiar with process, I have made a couple of homemade bins from spare rubbermaid tubs.

shooting down which ideas exactly bing? maybe like there's things that are "bad" for worms? that it takes some special machine or equipment to make it all work? that it's too complicated for .... a worm?

I don't think I ever discourage innovation - I do encourage folks to learn the principles and processes involved, and note that you've followed a path to that which led you to the understanding that buying a fancy product is just a spendier way to get into it ... I'm here to help with that understanding so as to overcome that "complicated" feeling most newbies have, and I do point out mis-information when I see it ... it does not take some [apparently hi-tech] magical "system" to recycle organic waste, nature has it all worked out, and having been into composting [with and without worms] for about 40 years, I have some experience with it all that I'm willing to share ... no charge

our regional government takes a different approach to worming, we encourage folks to find those spare tubs and give it a try, and we have folks willing to give hands-on instructions ... like myself

and yes, no advertising is a valid argument, eventually this thread will disappear

Bill

I have not been following this forum for very long, but I have already learned a lot (even though I have had worm bins for years). In general I have been quite favorably impressed with the level of respect which people show in their posts, even when they are not in agreement with the opinion expressed in another post or think a practice which someone suggests is not so good.
Once in a while I have seen threads in which people seem to get argumentative or disrespectful.
I hope that is not happening here.
The marketing issue warrants discussion, but not accusations. I'm sure we all would agree on that much.
And I would like to say that I have read a lot of squeeze's posts, and I do not recall a single one in which he seemed to me to be "shooting down someone else's ideas." On the contrary, it seems to me that he is very knowledgeable and patient in his explanations. I appreciate what he has to say.
Thanks for listening.
mbetts

Let's try this again.

I don't currently have a product for sale yet that I am aware of. We are in the concept stage. Building a better Mousetrap (Hence the name of the thread)! I am selling nothing here.

Bill, Good God, please ignore this thread. You are disrespectful, add zero value, and frankly, you think your opinion is the only one that is valid. You came on to pick a fight, and I won't bite.

To anyone else that is interested, If you could design the ultimate worm processor, what are some features you would like to see? If you are perfectly content with a $5 tub...this question is not for you. If you would like to have a say in the design of a better bin, let's here what you think would be beneficial.

Will you be sharing your 'better mousetrap' ideas?

sorry, but I can't ignore someone who's been on the forum for 3 days [and who's 1st post is about a new product idea] saying I add zero value after recieving thanks here from a wide range of folks for 6 years of sharing my [not-the-only-valid] views and experience ... even more, bing's opinion of me from his/her "casual" reading of the forum - been here one day ... I've no fight to pick with anyone who promotes vermicomposting, it's yourself dude, who "challenged" ["big time" even] my statement that volume waste reduction doesn't require spendy solutions

as for being disrespectful, it's not I who is doing market research for a product to sell on a business website ... on a forum that prohibits advertising - simple as that

as tango asks, will you post your design for all to copy as they will? .... I post everything I come up with to make composting easier and more attractive, here and on the soil/compost forum, complete with details of construction, like the folks in the "flow through bin" thread .... you might notice I haven't added anything on that thread, specifically because it's simply a "home remedy" being shared by someone with no commercial interest in "competing with higher end price points", and while I think it's not all that useful, some will enjoy trying their own version, and for some it might work fine

Bill

Tango,

I won't need to share the ideas. They will all on this public forum for everyone to see and evaluate.

Describe the qualities of a perfect worm bin?
Describe the challenges you face currently?

Let me give you an example:
I can avoid fruit flies in a plastic bin by burying my scraps deeply under a thick layer of damp bedding. Even less of a problem if I pocket feed, as I don't bring the scraps to the top when I fluff my bedding.

In a flow through system I will have a higher density of worms than a normal bin, and will be adding food more often. I may consider a air screen to keep flies away. Stores do it, and it keeps flies from coming in the front doors..why not a worm bin?

Bill, my apologies if it seemed like I was attacking your credentials.

I think human nature makes certain things stick in the mind that may not be representative of the overall picture and that may be true in my assessment of you. The specific messages of yours that stuck in my mind as being a bit snide... one where Kelly Slocum responded to someone waiting for an answer by pointing out that most of the people had moved to another forum due to a revised fair use policy and it seemed to me that you posted a snarky response. Another was the thread about the vermicomposters mapping site. Since I have a precocious 5 year old who is constantly asking questions and coming up with crazy ideas, I am a bit sensitive to parents, or anyone really, who seem to me to dismissive of well-intentioned but possibly imperfect ideas. Written words do seem to be inadequate at conveying tone sometimes when compared to face to face conversation. I just need to remember that more often.

BTW, I did just register today on gardenweb, but I also just registered on thegardenforums too... however, I have been lurking on the vermicomposting forums and archived threads since the beginning of this year. I'll get back to learning more about worming then...

First off I'd like to say that I don't mind someone "advertising" to me as long as they are up front about it. And secondly, squeezes input is not only helpful, but is needed here. Sometimes he's the only one who has an answer to a particular question.
Having said that, I say, If you can design a competitor to the wigwam - go ahead. Many people don't have that much to dispose of and so would not be potential customers. Others that may have more to dispose of, may not have the room for windrows. So, since competition is not a bad thing in business, knock yourself out!

A "better" unit would need:
to be rodent proof (since it would probably be outside)
to be fungas gnat proof (if it WERE used inside)
should be made of materials that could be recycled
should be easy to add material to
and easy to empty finished compost from
should be made to possibly run on solar energy
would need some way to collect runoff (if used indoors)
would need to be easy to assembly

That's my list. Anyone else??...

Here are a few things I am thinking about for my first flow through container, I mentioned it a bit in the flow thru thread. My goals are frugal, functional, low maint. Use will be in garage.

- handling minimal heating for winter.
- fly traps, top of the container. even with care, flying critters will happen.. I am thinking of a funnel mesh type trap. might experiment if it's worth hooking up a small LED as attractent
- fungas gnat management would be awesome! Dont know if the fly trap will work. I dont have a problem keeping them in the container.
- OR maybe some sort of 'rotating door' mechanism, so the flying guys cant get out during feeding. Con: tougher to build.

if you are building to sell:
activated carbon filters over the air vents for recurring revenue! lol

Keep the ideas coming. No Judging allowed ;)

Just thinking out of the box:
How about moisture meter?
How about a temperature guage?
How about a pull out shelf on the bottom to make removing the castings a breeze?

Originally, I had planned to use a 55 gallon food grade barrel for the casing of this unit. I'm now having second thoughts, due to lack of surface area.

We went looking for a plastic shell with more surface area, but all we could find were 4 x 4 produce ripening bins. They may work for commercial purposes, but for home usage, this would take up too much space.

At this point,we may end up fabricating a shell. I'm thinking an ideal size may be 2.5 x 5 (by 3 feet deep). This would allow a good sized surface area, and provide the worms with 18' depth of bedding and food, and the other 18' for finished castings.

Any thoughts on size here? I would not want a 4x4 unit in my garage, but 2.5 x 5 may not be that unreasonable.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Worm Dude

55gal might be tough to move also, especially when it's full. Dont have recommendations on size but for home use I would value minimal mobility.

I promised I would check in every so often to note the progress, so here I am.

We are still looking for the "Right" outer casing. I don't want to use an ordinary 55 gallon barrel because I would like something with quite a bit more surface area.

We took a fiberglass class in the hopes of fabricating our own case, but this would be a costly alternative.

Considering going to wood, similar to the "Eliminator", but I prefer plastic because of longevity.

Once we find an outer case, the project will proceed quickly.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Worm Dude

What about a plastic barrel cut in half length wise. I've seen barbecues made out of steel barrels cut that way.

I wonder how worms would react to being rolled, like in a tumble composter? Put a lid in the side of a barrel and keep it on a frame, it could be rolled, probably less often than a tumble composter though.

Hi rj,

A plastic barrel cut lengthwise would be fantastic for surface area, but would not work for the depth we need for the castings to work their way to the bottom. Nor would it hold a nice layer of scraps with lots of bedding above that.

Our plans call for 18" of depth at the bottom just to hold stored castings. Above that you need room for the cutter, grate, plenty of room for scraps, and bedding.

Appreciate the ideas though! The answer could be right in front of me, and I just have not thought of it.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Worm Dude

I'm thinking the vermitopia sounds like it would fit the bill.

Here is a link that might be useful: Berkley edu vermitopia plans