Might want to think about the volume of compostable waste that a family generates in a week.

Since that family will generate fresh waste every day, your machine will need to process at least two batches simultaneously.

Sounds too large for a countertop machine.

Sounds like a fun project.

Are you working alone or with a group?

Would noise level be distracting?

What % of total kitchen waste would qualify?

FWIW, in our household of 2 adults, I fill & empty a 2 quart (1/2 gallon) container every 2 days - or daily, if I'm cooking w/ something like fresh cabbage. This does not include most of the paper products like egg cartons, etc.

I've always thought this was a wonderful idea, and in fact (not wishing to rain on your parade), have seen a number of these already invented--but sans chopping board and scale. Please keep us posted, as I'm all for building a better mousetrap!

Smiles,

Sooz

You asked for opinions, so I'll be very frank. Good for you for checking here with people who actually cook!

I have a lot of misgivings about the combination with a chopping board and scale. Those don't provide added value to me. I have both, as well as a custom built prep area with the perfect chopping height for me. I wouldn't have space or use for a different surface, so you're limiting your machine to people who are redoing their kitchens. Since compost only has appeal for people who have gardens altogether, why would you further limit your reach? The chopping board and scale, to me, label this as unserious and just another overpriced gizmo.

Having the scale built into a composter as a nanny isn't going to work -- how is the scale going to know that you're weighing bacon (should have a smaller portion) or kale (should have a larger portion)? How is it going to know if you're prepping a pound of meat for one (glutton!) or ten (following guidelines to use meat as a condiment)? If you have to input all those factors, or even talk to it about them like you would with Siri, why would you bother using it? If you're going to weigh your food (which most cooks do at some point), you don't need a special garbage can telling you what to do with it.

Like many who live in urban areas, I have green pickup (i.e., vegan), they do the composting, and one can get the resulting finished compost for free in the exact amount required without having to mind or store it. Other areas have all food waste composting (including animal). The ability to deal with animal scraps would be of value, but we have such a tiny amount of that (in the city, we're not dressing deer at home) that it doesn't seem worth it. I wouldn't pay a lot for the privilege.

Additionally, with all the demands for kitchen space, I don't see how a composter helps. It means keeping the compost inside the house, and having to carry it out. I don't want to do that! Instead, we have an open urn for scraps and carry out small amounts at a time and put them in the bin. If I were going to buy an electric composter (which I doubt, since hand crank works fine if I were to want one), it would have to live outside. I don't have houseroom for it.

An outdoor automatic composter that handles animal waste has a mild appeal since our area doesn't take the meat/dairy/egg products. But we don't have enough use for compost (not a big enough garden) to handle all that would be made, so are we composting just to have the compost hauled to the landfill?

Increasing the practice of composting is a useful idea. Increasing the amount of compost people with less than half an acre of land have could be a problem in itself. Increasing the amount of compost that apartment dwellers have is useless if they don't have gardens.

A lot of multi-unit buildings do not separate waste. Have you considered how to get them into composting?

I, too, hate to rain on your parade, but I don't see many people having the room in their kitchens for anything other than cooking implements. Flat dwellers usually have very restricted space and if you live in a house, then you probably have a garden so why.......Plus, I'm not convinced there wouldn't be unwanted smells....

Where my son lives, in a flat, they have a small community veggie garden. They make compost. Perhaps that would be a better vein to tap.

We generate a lot of compostable waste. Our city picks it up in the green bins, along with kitty litter. I also have composting worms set up in the spare room. Currently we keep a garbage pail under the sink lined with newspaper to take our scraps to the green bin. I also keep and freeze scraps for the worms.

I have chickens, they compost it pretty quickly.

Sue

I attempt compost from our kitchen waste with a very small garbage can bucket in the trash drawer. I remove when full and add to an outside composter. It is not a particularly useful approach because the kitchen waste lacks any brown/dry materials and I have been too lazy to move dry materials of appropriate amounts to the composter. This leads to a very soggy material.

I actually generate comparatively large amounts of chipped brush. Having typed this, I realize it wouldn't take much effort to grab one large chipped pile and cart it beside the composter to be added a little at a time. I will do that!

In any case, I don't see where a kitchen device would find dry/brown materials.

Paper towels, paper napkins, paper bags & paper egg cartons are all browns - in fact any unprinted/ uncoated paper is a brown. I even compost waxed paper & parchment paper as well.

I compost 100%.

That includes bones, fat and meat.

dcarch

Carol, you must use unbleached paper towels.

You also have to source the inks and conditioners on the brown paper. Some are toxic even though they're plant based. Not enough to kill you, but not what you usually want to put in your soil.

Firstly i would just like to thank all of you for taking the time to respond to my post and there are some very interesting points here.

To answer a few of your points and some from another forum:

• I will definitely look into vermicomposting some more as quite a few of you mentioned it.
  But i was trying to avoid that kind of idea as a lot of people in my market (people new to composting) find food scraps 'gross', so i cant see them dealing with worms. but ill do some more research on the topic.
• In terms of shredding material the device will have a shredder to speed up the process, but i am working out whether it should be located in the device (so things are just shredded as you put them in) or on the outside (so you shred/blend materials before tipping them into the bin)
• I understand your concerns on sanitation issues regarding the chopping board, but part of our project is to include multiple functions, so it is just a possible option. To combat this though the outside of the machine and chopping board are covered in an Superomniphobic / Antimicrobial Molecular Coating, which prevents anything from sticking to them and kills an bacteria that comes into with the surfaces, keeping the chopping board and exterior of the machine sanitary. But i do agree it may be a bit of an unnecessary option.
• There will be a spout located at the bottom of the machine to collect excess liquid at the base of the compost, as it can be used a nutritious plant feed
• To get air to the pile whilst keeping it sealed and preventing smells, there will be aerating blocks inside which provide oxygen to the pile and a series of carbon filters located around the machine. These allow air to the pile but kill bad odors.
• The machine also has carbon, nitrogen, temperature and moisture sensors which constantly measure the pile to ensure it is at optimal composting conditions.
• I understand the point you make that using electrical power is anti-green, and to be perfectly honest it is. But the angle i am using is that the power needed out ways the detrimental impacts of food waste... which it does.
  But the machine can still operate without power, obviously just with less functions and a longer period to produce compost.
• I do still need to do some more testing though around size, as different households produce different amounts of waste. An option is to have the machine available in a few different sizes, large, medium, small?
• The composter will generate no noise really. All it essentially does is heat the pile and there is a small rotating plate that would spin once every few days to aerate the pile.
• The aim is that it will be able to handle all kitchen waste including meats and dairy as well as some of the packaging, eg, egg boxes.
• For those who think that they don't have access to any brown (carbon) materials, newspaper works perfectly, and most have access to this.

It is very interesting to see people opinions for different backgrounds such as gardening and cooking though, but i suppose you guys are the ones who will be generating the waste and having to deal with it.

I know all this seems a little far fetched but this is an educational project so we can push the boundaries a bit. Plus i am designing a product for the market in 2-3 years time, when these technologies will be drastically cheaper.

Thank you again though for taking time to respond to this post and i hope to hear more from you. Please feel free to just blast queries, questions, ideas etc.

Do some research on appropriate paper to put into composting. The inks and dyes are a real issue in terms of what you're putting in your soil

I would NEVER use a chopping board with an antimicrobial coating. I'm allergic to a lot of those poisons anyway, and the thought that that coating is being scraped into my food, even though it's a microscopic amount and probably not really harmful, is very off-putting. Wood is naturally antimicrobial and a much better idea. It, like all cutting surfaces, needs to be washed, however, and it would be much easier to do so if you could move it to the sink.

The exterior of your machine won't be kept sanitary by your coating either. It can only kill the first layer of crud. People need to be able to wash the sides, so make sure your coating can stand being scrubbed.

I didn't want to to deal with hauling out a whole bin of compost, tracking through my house, and now you're also making me handle a liquid? Which is basically rot liquid in my kitchen? NO.

And, yes, the people doing the cooking and gardening are your users. People in small urban flats entertain in restaurants and eat take out food at home.

Thank you, i wasn't aware that the inks and dyes could pose such an issue.

I've done projects in the past using antimicrobial coating and they are perfectly safe for use with food and washing/scrubbing them does not affect them. But i am probably going to scrap the chopping board idea due to the feedback. I am aware the coating only kills what it comes into contacts with, but it does keep it sanitary, obviously it still needs to be washed/wiped down but the surface remains much more hygienic when the coating is applied. Plus it stops odors and microbes leaching into the surface of the plastic, which is what often causes the smells.

In terms of handling the liquid you do not have to if you do not want to. The spout is there for an option if people want to use it as a plant feed. But should liquid gather at the bottom (which it sometimes does if people accidentally add to much), Spout makes it easy to clear and clean, rather than having to either reach inside to clean or lift bin out and poor it away.

What I meant is that you have to wash it anyway, and washing should be sufficiently anti-microbial. If not, your kitchen is too dirty to cook in.

The spout is a fine feature for tending to the composter. What I meant is that you've pointed out another problem with having the composer inside. Whether it's the spout or the lift away bin, dealing with rotty smelly ucky stuff in the kitchen is disgusting. I'm perfectly fine with the smells of compost composting and all that outside away from the house, where normal people have their compost heaps. That's the good, hearty smell of earth to earth. I'm also not easily offended by the stink of manure in the stable, barn or pasture, but it is not a smell I want to introduce inside my home, either. I'm perturbed when the delicious smell of roast chicken escapes from the kitchen into the house. For sure, I don't want decomposing garbage smells from dealing with the too wet composter!! Or just from emptying the composter. Or from opening the composter to check if it's too wet.

Hey! Here's a thought. I know you want this to be an indoor thing. Perhaps a feature you need is a really easy way to roll it outside to empty, without then rolling dirt from outside in when you put it back. Maybe some indoor castors to get it to the door, and a big wheeled dolly it slots onto at the door to roll it to where you're going to empty it. That would put the right wheels in the right place, and keep the indoor castors a lot cleaner. There would have to be a cover for where the castors slot in so that the general dirt, rain and leaves didn't make it messy.

Something like that, so it could be fed indoors but opened up outdoors might work.

Hmmm....but that doesn't help people whose kitchen is on a different level from the garden. How do you expect people whose kitchens are on the second floor (common where there are hills) to get the compost out? Carrying half a pound of scraps in a bag downstairs is no biggie (my green bin is downstairs, so I know). Carrying a five pound bin of compost not only through the house, but down the stairs? Not so much...

Hi plllog, thanks again for all the feedback, really appreciate it.

I understand what you mean now about the antimicrobial coating, but to be perfectly honest, although it serves its purpose it is primarily a marketing tool. from some research i did i found a lot of people have peace of mind just thinking that their kitchen is a cleaner place.

In terms of dealing with 'rotty smelly ucky stuff' it is almost unavoidable when using an indoor composter. But i am still looking for ways to make the process of disposing of the matter much easier and cleaner.

I really like what your thinking about the idea of how it could be wheeled to the door and dealt with in that way. But i don't think that the size of the machine warrants wheels, the removable bin would not weigh enough for it to need wheels when full of compost. I am looking at the possibility of larger models though where this idea could be useful so thank you.

How small is your device? It's going to fill up awfully fast just on peelings if it's used by cooks. If people only add half a pound per week will it still work? Maybe that's what you're after? Composting for people who don't cook, and just want to break down their leftover Chinese take away? Those are probably the ones your marketing tool anti-microbial coating would influence anyway. They probably don't clean their kitchens often either, and maybe could use the coating. :) If you cook from scratch, there's a lot of garbage, even if you make soup from your peelings first. If the prep is done elsewhere, the compostables are mostly elsewhere too.

If that's so, if it'll make just enough compost in a month to nourish a few potted plants, I could see a wider market. I don't know if they'd actually use it, but there are all kinds of gadgets at Williams-Sonoma for $250-500 that pretend to automate an easy process ("canner" which automates the easy part, baking scale with internal recipes, etc.). It might fit in there.

Composting inside, I dunno. On the porch maybe. Worm bin in the basement maybe. I have done both. Best compost is just ye olde bin outside, IMHO. But finding a way to keep it enclosed and working and vermin free and close to the house in the winter would be a plus. I hate going out to the compost bin in the winter because it is off the beaten path in my yard. I'm the world's laziest composter and I just let the stuff sit until it warms up enough to get working again. I have seen some expensive indoor composting get ups, but having composted for years and years, I just laugh. But then again, like I said, I am lazy and I just let stuff sit and rot in my yard in piles most of the time. I just scoop my compost from the bottom of the pile. Good compost doesn't smell bad, or even smell much at all, but I think it is a bit to "earthy" for the kitchen, unless your kitchen was large. I compost for the garden, I don't much care for house plants, they limit my going away too much. Urban situations would do best to rally for municipal composting facilities, or ones run by their apartment complex, etc.

Yesterday I prepared a cauliflower. I'm guessing that American ones come with a fair bit of the outside leaves and stuff that you have to cut off as ours do. I'm just thinking of the size bit that I needed to compost. HUGE! Then, if I have a day making soup and things, there are bucket loads of peelings....... I have a large kitchen but don't have room for a composter that could cope with my stuff.

The exact device dimensions haven't been mapped yet but i am looking at around 320mm wide, 340mm deep and 420mm tall. These are as big as i want it to be, ideally a bit smaller, the bin inside being around 75% of the size. from what i have gathered so far, that should make the bin big enough for a weeks worth of food scraps and left overs (once things have been shredded and broken down). But perhaps you think i would need more room for the food scraps?

Another option i am highly considering at the moment is effectively having 2 bins. One that food scraps are placed into during the week (just a plain bin), and then the other being the composter (which speeds up the compost process and delivers the finished product).

• this does mean more space is needed for 2 bins
• but the composter can work on last weeks food scraps, undisturbed, until the next lot needs to be added. So fresh food isn't being added daily, making the process much more effective.
• this would produce much richer compost and be more effective
• there may be an added cost in needing 2 bins

What are your thoughts on this idea? i know there are draw backs but i think the positives would out way these.

The product was originally aimed at the market plllog described but i would like to reach into the 'cookers' market, what would i need to do to appeal more to them?

The project has to be an indoor composter to match the brief, but this concept should eliminate odors and smells (in theory as i cant test it) as the science seems add up.

It could be for people who just want rid of food waste in a friendly way and also like to look after their plants, garden etc, then they can add their little bits of finished compost to house plants, garden and other places.

I'm not sure how it works in other places, but in England this is definitely the kind of thing that come in tandem with a council/government initiative. Eg. if you have one you pay less council tax for bins, they cover 10% of the upfront cost of the machine, and other possibilities.

I have heard people mention possible issues about size and lack of room they have inside, but the project is an indoor composter, so apart from reducing its size (but then there's less room for the waste) how can i make the idea more appealing/viable?

Thank you again for all your feedback, it is much appreciated.

The problem with composting is unless you have a space and place for using it, there is really no point in doing it. I think I have seen systems that have gardens on top, but in the winter where I live, it is tough to grow things without light supplementation. I gave up on houseplants. My winter "composting" is just piling the stuff up outside until it warms up. The indoor composters I have heard of people using were rotating drum type deals that they kept on porches or balconies. As for size, you need a critical mass, (can't remember what it is, something like 4 ft. diameter circle volume), for the compost to get hot enough to break down fast. I have tried composting less volume in cooler weather, it just doesn't work! Research "hot composting" because that is what you are trying to do inside. That's why the other indoor composting system I have seen was with worms. A worm bin. Set one up and it was going fine but if you don't take care of it the worms die, and then the whole thing stinks to high heavan, with rotting worms and debris not breaking down. But with the worm bin, it gets bigger and bigger in the winter with no place to put the growing worm population.

What i appreciate is that you posted and have returned. Often these ideas are posted and not responded at all...I need some time with a busy work load but cook, garden, and compost....worm bin for 20yrs in a NYcity loft and now in a few homes but, with experience, find a passive system the most reliable. Three bin passive is efficient. And easy.

You make a very good point about the tax incentive and the compost needing to be used, otherwise it is still going to need to be picked up along with other rubbish, i will think of possible ideas around this. But composted food waste is produces far less harmful gases than regular food waste, so even if it does end up on landfill, the fact it was composted is a benefit.

In terms of the size of it, the coffee machine sized appliance is what i was aiming for, probably a bit bigger. In previous research this is what people said they would put out on kitchen counter-tops, anything bigger and they said it would get in the way.

I agree with you that the non-enthusiast composters aren't going to want to empty a bin of decaying food into another bin. What i really need is a way to transfer the food scraps, waste, finished compost etc. that is not messy, dirty or 'disgusting'. So i will put some thought into that today.

And you make a good point that the compost doesn't need to be immediately used, it can be placed outside on a larger pile, then spread once/twice a year. This would be simply done by just carrying the bin outside and dumping the compost onto the pile.

You are correct about the size 'needing' to be 4ft squared. But this indoor composter is insulated and with small additions of heat the pile remains hot enough to work.

Yeah i looked at worm composting but for the non-composters the hassle and thought of worms put them off.

Again this is part of my future design module so the concepts and ideas we produce can be 'in-theory' proposals. So i'm sure some of my ideas do seem a little far fetched, but that's what our lecturers are looking for, "can this be done... is it possible?".

Unfortunately the research and initial design phase of my project is coming to an end so i could do with finalized concept by the end of the week. So do you think the idea of having 2 bins is better than having 1 bin which you continuously add to?
This is the only real design issue i currently have that can majorly swing the direction of the project, other issues and thoughts can be adapted.

Thank you again