Because they are the best tasting tomatoes ever? Granted, they are not the healthiest tomatoes nor the most productive. But if you want the best tomatoes, you have to put up with some weaknesses.

Your blossoms are falling off because they aren't pollinating... or possibly because your nighttime temps are too low to allow the fruit to set. (I don't know the temperature situation in GA.) Just like any flower or ovule etc., they must then fade into oblivion.

The question is "why no pollination?" Heirlooms, which typically exhibit flower anatomy that makes self-pollination improbable, will exhibit inferior yields to the yields of hybrids with flowers whose stamens envelop the pistil.

I know the experts insist that tomatoes self-pollinate, but I've seen enough low-yield heirlooms in my own backyard garden to embark on a program of forced pollination... Also, I have learned from Dr. Caroline Male that high heat kills pollen, and that effect is obviously deleterious to fruit yields.

I live in a climatic zone where high heat is an obvious threat to tomato yields... especially after mid July. As such, it is important to have fruit set on my vines during months of mild nighttime temps (>60 F) and mild daytime temps (Meanwhile, I have three sub-varietals of Brandywine growing in separate pots in my concrete suburban back yard. We have experienced the "best" temps (consistently mild thanks to heavy marine cloud layer) in 10 years, and for the first time in almost a decade I'm having booming tomato yields. Also, I was far more assertive in my efforts this year... and got started earlier. Here in this "hot place" procrastination exacts a heavy toll in lost fruit production... as explained previously.

I have Red Brandywine, Yellow Brandywine, and Pink Brandywine. The Red is most productive. I have hand-pollinated all, with favorable results.

Just yesterday I saw a black carpenter bee visiting my backyard toms for the first time in memory. This will boost fruit production but introduce cross-pollination... a caveat for anyone saving seed... but this point is utterly irrelevant to the harvester who only wants to eat the fruit and discard the seed.

Hand-pollination must be done carefully and only when the pollen "flies" upon being flicked delicately with a sharp instrument. Then the flower is ripe for pollination.

I have never seen pollinating insects in my backyard garden... until now... unless I consider those omnipresent aphid-like green flies that are probably too small to pollinate anything.

If you want high yielding tomato plants, stick to hybrids. That's what most people do around here, anyway. I have had a plot in our beautiful public garden now for over 5 years, and I am witness to the spectacular yields of the hybrid vines. Also, there are many pollinating insects at that massive facility... where elderly gardeners typically start their vines early in the season, to boot.

If you want high yielding tomato plants, stick to hybrids

****

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with that. OVer the years I've grown my share of hybrids and I think I can match a good yielding hybrid with an OP.

You mentioned me above in terms of talking about pollination problems due to destruction of the pollen b'c of high heat, and I'll add clumping of pollen due to high humidity and the poster gardens in GA so both are possible.

And yes, I stand by the comments and observations of many that self pollenization is the rule; actually about 95% of the blossoms do self pollenize when conditions are favorable for pollenization.

Brandywine can be finicky when it comes to setting fruits and some get great yields, others don't. I also don't think it's the best tasting tomato around but that's just my own opinion.

I think one of the reasons you've never seen insect pollinators is b'c sweat bees, aka Halictid bees, are the most common pollinators and they're very tiny. Folks like myself who save seeds don't even want to see insect pollinators if we're not bagging blossoms. LOL

maybe in you area hand pollinating works fine, a couple of vigorous shakes of a plant each day also can sometimes help.

And I do know the Long Beach area quite well b'c a long time friend of mine lives there and she's been able to grow well almost any variety she wants to. You've got some kind of plant sale there locally and I know she's been involved in that in the past.

So, most folks I know grow both hybrids and OP's but I just can't agree with you that hybrids are the way to go based on yield.(smile)

Carolyn

Mountainrose,

I tried Brandywine a couple of years ago, and was disappointed in yield but also didn't think they tasted all that great (just my personal opinion.)

Some people on Garden Web shared some of their approaches to growing Bradywine in Georgia. It can be a difficult variety for us as it turns out. Advice received was to get them into the ground as early as I dared, for us that was late March. Had to take extra precaution for late cold snaps. First sign of fruit forming came during the last week of May, and we had our first ripe fruit first week of July. The vines were shot by the end of July. They couldn't take the heat apparently.

Others in Georgia may have good success with them. For me it was not worth the trouble and I haven't tried them again.

The blossoms whose stems are snapping off have little green "swells." So is that still a pollination issue or is it something else? We have had a very mild early summer. And a ton of rain, if that makes a difference. They are growing in loamy native soil, peat moss, mushroom compost and bone meal.

The blossoms whose stems are snapping off have little green "swells." So is that still a pollination issue or is it something else? We have had a very mild early summer. And a ton of rain, if that makes a difference. They are growing in loamy native soil, peat moss, mushroom compost and bone meal.

****

If you're referring to the wee green blob in the center of the blossom then that's the tomato ovary. When pollenization occurs followed by fertilization of the ovules in the ovary which forms the seeds, then that wee ovary expands and grows into a mature fruit.

Blossom drop does occur when pollenization does not occur so it would be normal to see that wee ovary in blossoms that fall off.

So aisde from the high sustained heat you might have and high humidity which clumps the pollen and makes it less effective, and I did mention above that being in GA you might have both of those problems, growing in too rich soil or using too much fertilizer can also inhibit blossom formation and/or fruit set.

Carolyn

The blossoms whose stems are snapping off have little green "swells." So is that still a pollination issue or is it something else??

That swell is a joint on the pedicle. It forms an abscission layer when fertilization of the ovary doesn't occur. A hormone is given off and causes the flower to abort.

Other environmental factors can also cause that yellowing at the "swell" to occur and flowers to abort.

Overall hybrids are certainly more consistent and reliable yielders than heirlooms.

Here is a link that might be useful: blossom drop

I don't have an answer for the OP as to why his BW isn't setting fruit, but from my own experience this year i must say it doesn't necessarily have to be the weather.
Mine were setting fruit very well in early May, when our temps were not only less than ideal but in a range "experts" would say it is impossible to set fruit in. I'm talking barely above freezing at night and 50's during the day.
Now when the weather seems "ideal" my BW's (as well as Mortgage lifters) are suffering from blossom drop.
The only conclusion i can draw from it is that they just have a mind of their own. ;)

I tried Brandywine a couple of years ago, and was disappointed in yield but also didn't think they tasted all that great (just my personal opinion.)

I have grown Brandywine Sudduth for 7 years. This is my first year not growing it (trying BrandyBoy instead). The very first year I grew it there were low yields, but the taste was the best I ever experienced. Some friends I gave some to also remarked about the exceptional flavor. The following 6 years were disappointment after disappointment. Death by disease before any yield, death to frost with only unripe toms on plant, OK yields with non exceptional flavor etc. They are maddening to me.

Had it not been for the first year where I experienced the 'legendary' flavor I would regard Brandywine as all hype. As it was I found the flavor exceptional enough I gave them a try for 6 additional years before throwing in the towel.

This has been a pretty bad year for most all my Pinks and Bi-colors. WeÂve had about 12" of rain since the beginning of May and I know the ground should have been dryer when I did plant. IÂve lost Traveler, Caspian Pink, Rose De Berne, 1 Sudduth Brandywine, and the Bi-colors Pineapple & VA Sweets. What remains (and are about 18" high) is 1 Sudduth Brandywine, 2 plants from the garden store labeled "Pink Brandywine" I bought when the other pinks died, and 1 Brandy Boy. But now the Brandy Boy leaves suddenly curled up and the plant does not look good at all. Most all my OP and Hybrid Reds look ok. I guess my point is IÂm not noticing any particular advantage in vitality between OPs or Hybrids or I am equally adept at killing both.

justaguy... Isn't it maddening, the year to year differences? I'd love to know what you think of Brandy Boy after they ripen.

It's more the diurnal temperature variation (variation in temperature that occurs from the highs of the day to the cool of nights) that effects set than just the low or the high alone.

Now when the weather seems "ideal" my BW's (as well as Mortgage lifters) are suffering from blossom drop.

Even not considering a diurnal change this could also be confounded by humidity and/or other environmental factors.

Mulio,
i do get what you're saying, however the temps here as well as humidity are perfect high 70's day, 60's night with occasional 80 thrown in for a high and 50-60% hum. All(most) all 25 other varieties are setting fruit just fine, exception being Sicilian Saucer though it's not dropping blooms by the dozen like BW and ML. I'm sure it's other "environmental factors" causing it but for the life of me i can't figure out what they are. I will still say i'm pretty happy with what the plants have set so far cuz i do see about 10 fruit on each BW and i would expect a few more to set before the end of my growing season.

Thank you all for your posts. I am growing tomatoes for the first time and have a brandywine among the 8 I planted, and learned so much from all of your posts. I live in a very hot area so I was under the assumption that tomatoes loved the heat, and I planted all of them where they will get lots of late afternoon scorching sun-which may have been a mistake. Oh, Well live and learn.

Oh, Well live and learn.

Very healthy attitude for a gardener to have! ;)

Brandywine sucks IMHO. I decided to try it this year for the first time, put it in the ground March 7th and it's just finally set some fruit in the past week. It's about 8 feet tall, with about 6 small tomatoes. All the other varieties are loaded with fruit. This is a big deal to me because I've got limited space. I don't care how good they end up tasting, BW is never going in my garden again.

Justaguy and azruss - Brandy Boys are great! The taste is very good, they are very disease resistant and the yield is good. No disrespect to Carolyn, but this is one example of the hybrid being better. P.S. I also raise several OPs.
John A

I grew the Ferry Morris(Spelling? I'm at work) Pink Brandywine for the first time this year. All but one of the plants produced well, but they all started dropping blossoms mid-May, and have not produced since. Which I attribute to the heat and humidity here in FL. I have tasted several of the fruit and was not impressed, perhaps my expectations were set too high. I bought Carolyn's book and have decided to try the Suddath strain this fall. I am going to save the seeds and hopefully it will adapt and overcome.

Andy

so much for fruity folklore fables eh?

;)

Mulio
If you're refering to the fable that talks about getting 3 fruit per plant from bw, then yes. But again i'm in a northern climate where it never really gets to hot for toms, save for maybe a week or 2. And it is my first year trying this variety so i can't say if they will consistntly produce to my satisfaction. That said i must add that all my in-ground plants are pruned to 2 branches which may or may not make a difference in how and how many fruit set.

"Tell me again why I should keep growing them..."
I can't tell you why or whether you should keep growing them. I can tell you why I keep growing BW, taste. In other words I'm willing to live with the flaws because of the payoff.

Like a lot of things in gardening you have to find your own way. You'll have to decide if you're willing to live with the flaws. Your decision will have a lot to do with how you perceive taste. Every one's taste is different.

Good luck.

Randy

I've been curious about the nature of the Ferry-Morse seed labeled simply "Brandywine - Heirloom" and with the description, "Produces really tasty, large pink tomatoes truly worthy of growing. Fruits can weigh up to a pound."

No mention of a particular strain. I just emailed them to ask if they had any further information regarding it, and I'll update as soon as I hear back from them.

Presently I've got 25 of these plants growing in my garden, and they're doing extremely well, despite me planting out a bit late (mid-May). All are covered in blooms and most have set several fruit. Whether this will continue, only time will tell.

There's another GW discussion about Brandywines in the link at the bottom.

FWIW, apparently the Ferry Morse Brandywines are potato leafs.

Here is a link that might be useful: Brandywine tomatoes

I guess I should go on to mention that I only get about 20 to 30 fruit off BW plants. I consider that to be a flaw in production. If I only got 3 or 6 fruit per plant I probably wouldn't grow it either.

Randy

My anectodal observation is that BW is more temperature sensitive than most when it comes to fruit set. This year I had an early fruit set on a Brandywine (pink I think) and that resulted in about 8 large fruit. Then we had a late cool snap in early May with day temps in the 80s and nights about 68 and a dozen more set on that plant. This is my 3rd year with BW and I never had a second setting like that b/c our heat is normally a slow build up and 90s in May are the rule. 90, some humidity and night temps that are warm with increased humidity don't seem to work for BW at all.

here's a "green swell" yellowing

{{gwi:1341503}}
notice the aphid on pedicle

Thanks! I was confused because I thought the ovary was a fertilized baby tomato!

cfed, I doubt that they will know which strain they have. Most places have no idea there are strains. If a place does know what strain they have, for sure, they say so. Seldom have I seen a strain for Brandywine on a seed pack but quite a few places that sell seeds via a catalog/website do state the strain, mostly the Sudduth/Quisenberry strain.

Mountain rose, I looked above to see which post you were replying to and couldn't find it. The tomato ovary is present at the base of the blossom and has lots of ovules in it, seeds to be, and when the blossom self pollenizes or is Cross pollinated the pollen falls onto the female receptive organ called the stigma, and each pollen grain changes shape and makes its way down the style to the ovary and each pollen grain fertilizes one ovule.

And it's the fertilization of the ovules in the ovary that stimulates hormones to make that ovary enlarge and become a tomato and the fertilized ovules become the seeds inside the tomato.

Carolyn

Thanks, Carolyn. I was the OP and I was confused because I saw the ovary on the blossoms that dropped and thought that was a fertilized baby tomato, so I was confused about why it was dropping. Thanks for clearing it up. :)

Indeed, the answer I got was:

"We know we get the pink fruited, but do not know the particular strain. Sorry, we could not help."

So, they're pink. Ok.

There's a lot of confusion on the various strains...and all those places that call it an amish heirloom are just as likely to be incorrect.
http://www.victoryseeds.com/information/craig_brandywine.html
In a way I'm happy that the stigma protrudes out because that helps tremendously in using it for breeding purposes. I think I would like to see what I get if I cross it with Goliath.

Regarding the flavor of heirloom tomatoes:

For years, I grew Celebrity. Later I grew Big Beef as well.

The first year I grew Brandywine, I just fell over at the difference in taste. Then I added Cherokee Purple, Caspian Pink, and Prudens Purple. Knowing that heirlooms were "iffy" on health and production, I continued to have a couple Big Beef and Celebrity as backups.

You know what happened? I ended up tossing all the Big Beef and Celebrity into the compost. They just tasted like wet sawdust by comparison. They weren't even worth making into sauce.

I will never grow another modern hybrid tomato again for personal use. OK, modern cherry tomato hybrids are better than heirloom cherries. But for main season tomatoes, it isn't even a contest.

Oh, and by the way, though I mentioned Brandywinwe as "the best tasting tomato ever", that is by numerous general taste tests. If I personally were to grow only one tomato (perish the thought) it would be Cherokee Purple.

Thankfully, I am growing Brandywine Suddith Red, Cherokee Purple, Prudens Purple, Aunt Gerties Gold, Tennessee Britches, and Caspian Pink. And Sweet Million Cherry (LOL).

Last year was my first with Brandywine pink and I was pleasantly pleased. Grant it they are not heavy producers but I was able to harvest around 8 huge tasty mature fruits and 3-4 immature fruits per wintersown plant. Seedlings were only in the 2nd true leaf stage at planting out time. I wonder how much more production would have been had I set out indoor started 6-8 wk old plants?
I trained all of mine to only 1-2 main vines and wonder if the added light reaching all parts of the plants made a difference?

I don't know. I'm a low maintenence type. I just put a big remesh cage over each of my tomatoes and let them grow as they please... When I see something ripe, I pick it. ;)

I've started a program of daily flicking the blooms of all my plants in one row while ignoring the others, in a few weeks i should have some (albeit anecdotal) evidence as to wethere that makes any difference. Will post.

Yardenman- I totally agree with you on Cherokee Purple! It was the ugliest, best tasting tomato!!! I literally got 5 tomatos off of it, but man, ill grow it every year for a taste of it!!!! -cass

I have 3 BW's this year and as of this date the productivity between the 3 couldnt be greater,however there is still a long summer to wait and hope. My Brandywine is 4 ft tall and has 2 tomatoes on it. The Red Brandywine(RL)(landis) is 3-4 ft with 6-8 tomatoes. These 2 were started from seed. The alledged Brandywine Red(PL)4ft tall was purchased as a plant and is loaded with 20+ tomatoes. Will see what August brings.

Planted Brandwine and Cherokee Purple seeds June 1. As of Aug.12 I have an average of 10 midsize Cherokees and 2 Brandwine fruit per plant. Very hot in this area but am beginning to think that Brandwines are not suitable for these high temps. I am also beginning to think that pruning all branches below the first flower set is the key to larger fruit. I will post my results late this fall.