* If you own farm animals of ANY type - even just chickens etc - please educate yourself on the animal ID issues - www.NoNAIS.com is a great site but google for yourself and LEARN, Please. Happy farming! Liberty Ark Action Alert: USDA Anounces Two More Public Meetings on Animal Identification Date: June 10, 2010 USDA has announced two more public meeting on its animal traceability framework: Thursday, June 24 Sheraton Salt Lake City Hotel 150 West 500 South Salt Lake City, UT 84101 Thursday, July 1 Holiday Inn DFW Airport South 14320 Center Station Drive Ft. Worth, TX 76155 The meetings will take place between 8 am and 4 pm, and the meeting agenda is posted at: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/traceability/downloads/public_meeting_agenda.pdf The meeting agenda appears to be the same as the previous public meetings. The morning will consist of presentations by government officials, followed by breakout sessions at tables based on species groups. After the small groups have reported back to the full audience, a USDA official will respond to written questions, and there may be an opportunity at the very end for oral questions or comments. If youÂre within traveling distance, please come and make your voice heard! 1) After the initial presentations, the participants will break out into tables based on species groups. Be prepared to be an advocate for your views and to politely disagree with the facilitator(s). If they claim that a "consensus" has been reached with an answer that you donÂt agree with, say so! At the end, when the table reports back to the whole group, speak up if the person doing the report doesnÂt cover all of the issues that were raised. 2) Plan a few written questions ahead of time. When the USDA official goes through the questions in the afternoon, if he doesnÂt actually answer your question, stand up and politely insist on an answer.

Aridandtropical, if you see my username, you would see and know that I am WELL AWARE of my zone. Also, Palm trees are native only as far north as extreme SE, North Carolina. They will not grow in DC without protection, except for Windmills, which are marginal, and Sabal Minor and Needle palms, which are almost fool-proof here. Bananas, well, Basjoos can be grown much much farther north than here with no protection other than a pile of mulch. The only difference between here in Michigan is that our winters are considerably more mild, and we need to protect stuff less. We still have winters, just like you though, and sometimes, as witnessed by our record all time lows, and some winters snowfalls, can be just as brutal as they are far north. 77" of snow in the winter of 2010 was nothing to shake a stick at, even by the snowiest places in the country standards. yep, we had that here. =o) One of the biggest differences is DURATION of bitter cold here is much much shorter on the infrequent occasions we do get down near 0F. I was giving mr banana dude back just what he was putting in. Nothing more. I found it much more hilarious than anything else, and if you think someone typing words on the internet is getting to someone or makes someone angry, well, I'm not sure you know too much about the text only form of communication. In stead of presenting his "opinion" in a constructive manner, he was nothing more than arrogant, rude, and down right insulting to almost everyone here. I might expect that of someone age 8-10, but most people by the time they are 17 usually have a grasp on what being opinionated is, and the difference between that and just being down right rude and insulting. Glad you are having successes with your tropicals so far north. Oh, and thanks Hunter M. It was mainly meant to be FUNNY, and I think it kind of was. ;-) Personally, I think Hunter M, for being his age, participated in a much more adult manner here than did mr banana dude. you'd think that would be the other way around now wouldn't you?

Happy New Year, Everyone! I think that Meghane is giving us an outstanding example on how we could educate the public more effectively. Maghane, as our resident vet, I'm curious about the percentage of animals you see coming from a 'mill' source vs. the BYB. Overall, do you see any difference in health between the two? I would like to take your commercial and show the puppy coming from a nice couple's home to it's vet appointment. Until I started reading the threads on here, I never realized there were so many purebreds in the shelters. The public doesn't have such a positive opinion about shelter animals, either. If I owned a shelter, I would advertise it just like a petting zoo advertises. Come out and meet all the different kinds of animals, see the lovely animals donated to the facility, free admission, 'family day' on Saturday's... It's much more enticing than the depressing, homeless, unwanted, discarded animals route. You girls were talking about educating children so I looked into what kind of education they are getting. The Humane Society has some literature for teachers and parents. They put out a newsletter which they say reaches 200 million children nationwide. I'd be interested to know how much time is really devoted in the classrooms to the material. Ultimately, it's the parents that need to educate the children in their own pet selections. I looked a little more in-depth into what the Humane Society is doing for our education. Their 2008 Financial Report is on-line. They spent $6,746,114. in both education and research (it's a combined total for both). But to put this into some sort of perspective their revenue was $131,281,161.00 of which over 100 million dollars was unrestricted. Due to their total lack of response on a personal issue, I'm pretty down on their organizational structure. This isn't to slight the worker bees (often volunteer, no less) out on the front-lines. That's an incredible undertaking and full credit is due. However, I shared the public opinion that when a problem arose, they were there immediately taking action. That was not my experience. We actually hang up on them when they call for funds now so I don't get their fund-raising literature. In 2008 they spent over 27 million in fund-raising. On the surface, it seems that they are adept on raising money :). Clubbing seals in the head certainly gets people to reach into their pockets. So do starving dog photos. They've made great strides for the seals in a relatively short span of time. Why do we still have starving dogs after so many years? If they can run fund-raising campaigns so effectively, why can they not run educational programs more effectively? The financial report doesn't show how much revenue was received from people making donations with the intention of stopping the mills. It leaves the lingering question in my mind as to what their revenues would be to help the chickens if the mills were gone. There appears to be confusion about breeders. I've actually communicated with a small group of ethical cat breeders. There is not an easy way for us to distinguish between a reputable breeder and a byb breeder. Hence, if we started using the term "pet peddler" people would become a little more alert. Better yet, if the reputable breeders with start calling themselves something different than 'breeder' we could begin to segregate. One of things I have found is that we really don't understand what a reputable breeder does as far as costs. We tend to use the monetary cost of the pet to determine the quality of the animal. A $200 puppy sounds like a quality pup and a $50 pup is the same puppy from someone not trying to make a profit from us! Neither is factual. The group I spoke with seemed open to the thought of actually putting up on their web pages the true costs that go into the animals. I truly think if this information was easily obtained, the educational value would be immeasurable. I'm sure it varies from breed to breed but it is very expensive to produce a healthy animal. The continuous health screenings on their animals costs a lot. There is a lot of care and concern about each animal in their program. I've reached a small group within TICA for cats. They were receptive to start helping to educate the cat community in different way. There is equal frustration on their side that we are not making educated purchases. Does anyone in here know of a way to reach some groups of ethical dog breeders? Maybe if we could open up communication between us and the ethical breeders, some of the confusion would subside. Do you have any more suggestions on how they could help us? I'm willing to put them out there. People seem to have the same views about the AKC. (lol - saintpfla - registering your couch)! I went to the CFA, Cat Fancier's Association, to see what kind of education they are putting out for cat consumers. OMG! They say that a purebred cat price starts at about $300. I don't know the cost of all purebred cats, they must vary. I know the Bengals from reputable sources are in the neighborhood of $1,000 and I found the Abyssinian are the same. So, if you are just surfacing around without educating yourself, you're thinking you are getting bilked by a reputable breeder. It's somewhat misleading. They've given cat consumers 3 avenues to buy our purebred kitten. The Want-Ads (which means internet to most now), pet stores and reputable breeders. It didn't come across to me that using a reputable breeder is for health. And a pet store? They write that the kittens sometimes come from kitten mills. Why wouldn't they completely discourage using the pet store since it would be hard to determine if it is a mill kitten or not? Just because a kitten doesn't have a runny nose or eyes does not mean it's healthy! If you take a look at the pricing schedule, you're led to believe the cost is based on looks. Yes, you pay more of a premium for a perfect look, however, if you aren't showing your pet, you still need to pay a premium for health - not $300. The cat breeders seem to follow this same pricing structure so the health concerns are not immediately apparent. Is this the same for dog breeders? It costs between $20 - $60 to register your cat (depending on the number of generations requested). I don't anticipate buying another purebred any time soon. However, since I don't show, I will refuse to register an animal again until I see some changes within the information they are providing. I micro-chip so have a solid identification on my pet with both my contact info and my reputable breeder's contact info on my new kitten. I don't find any value in the registration paper. I had registered her with TICA but the paper sits in my file drawer. Here is a link that might be useful: Cat Fanciers' Association

Oly, I concede that my description was insensitive. But if you ever saw a typical local roll and tar roofer, you might cut me a bit of a break. I should not use the medical terms "alcoholic" or "addict" lightly. But substance abuse is a big problem within that trade, and so is reliability. The roofs here are flat and often accessed from inside the house, so it's not nearly as dangerous as the job of a shingler on a pitched roof. And they are not particularly underpaid. It is however, a filthy job. And I suspect they probably make statements that are just as judgmental and derogatory about non-roofers, in fact I've heard some. That doesn't make it right. I've read studies that the terms "alcoholic" and "addict" are overused in our current society. There is a significant portion of the population who falls in moderate to heavy user categories here, without actually being stricken with the disease: they would not go through physical withdrawal if they stopped. Cyn, No one in these forums can really say what my familial or professional experiences have been with alcoholism, drug addiction, substance abuse or incarceration. No one in these forums will ever be able to say whether I know a lot or nothing about it. Because that's not something I will ever talk about in these forums, unless I exhibit a major lapse in judgment and discretion. And if I am on a pedestal of some sort, I don't want to be.