Obviously, we don't need worm castings from the POV of soil structure, because they are very fine and reduce aeration/drainage. Micro-organisms in container media aren't necessary for healthy plants, and their populations are notably influenced by other cultural factors to the point where they are often boom or bust. So, lets look at them from a nutritional POV, and leave lots of room for any discussions that might not agree with what I say. I think it would be a good idea to first define what our goal is when we provide supplemental nutrition to our plants. I've thought about that, and this is what I came up with and saved for use in conversations like this: Whenever we discuss what is or isn't an appropriate part of the methodology we use to make certain our containerized plants get all the nutrients essential to growth and good health, we would probably first want to be sure our objectives are on target. It's difficult to argue with the idea that our focus in supplying supplemental nutrition to our plants should be on ensuring all the nutrients plants normally assimilate from the soil are A) IN the soil and available for uptake at all times, B) in the soil in a favorable ratio - that is to say in a ratio that mimics the ratio at which the plant actually uses the nutrient, C) at a concentration high enough to ensure no nutritional deficiencies, yet still low enough to ensure the plant's ability to take up water, and the nutrients dissolved in that water won't be impeded (by a high concentration of solubles in the soil solution). At this point, you (used collectively) can accept these premises as worthy goals or argue against them. If accepted, we should then necessarily examine our efforts at supplementation in the light of whether or not our efforts bring us closer to or limit our ability to see the goals implemented. YMMV, but I'd be interested in how to improve on what I said. What's in worm castings? What nutrients? The fact is, we don't know. We have no idea what they supply, or how much of any particular nutrient they supply. Their contribution to any increases in soil biota populations would only serve to break down the soil faster than it would normally break down w/o them. How then, do we know if we are limiting our ability to reach our goal. We need control over what we supply, and plants are best served when the ratio of nutrients in the soil are matched as closely as possible to the ratio at which plants actually use those nutrients. IOW, WCs don't supply anything you can't get from a well-made fertilizer that provides all the essential nutrients in a favorable ratio. The fact is, in light of the goal, they have as much or more potential to be limiting than beneficial. Changing topics ....... I think if you rearrange your thinking about your starting point for building a better soil so it's more like: Start with a ______ (fill in the blank with a coarse material or materials that ensure you can actually amend what you start with). If you start with potting soil, how can you amend it? You'll need to add well over 50% of other coarse materials (like pine bark) to get it to a point where you can water correctly. If you have more than 50% bark, didn't you actually 'start' with bark; or, maybe the better question is, wouldn't it then be a bark-based soil instead of a soil based on whatever potting mix you're using as the filler? I suggested a goal for nutritional supplementation, so how about a goal for the quality of your soil? From my perspective, an appropriate medium is a medium that allows us to water to beyond the point of saturation, at will, so we're flushing the dissolved solids (salts) that are present in tapwater and fertilizer solutions; this, w/o the plant having to pay the penalty of reduced root function, or perhaps wrecked root health, due to those prolonged periods of soil saturation after watering correctly. All the dissolved solids in tapwater and fertilizer solutions are left behind and accumulate in soils whenever we're forced to water in sips, which is commonly employed as a strategy to help avoid the sogginess that limits root function and wrecks root health. It's important to realize that a healthy plant is not possible w/o a healthy root system. If you have established goals that include healthy and attractive plants, it's critical that you have a plan to avoid the limitations imposed by over-watering and an accumulation of dissolved solids (salts) in the soil solution. Not every grower fully understands the dilemmic issues associated with inappropriate soils that force the plant to pay a vitality tax resultant of an unhealthy amount of water being retained for extended periods when we water correctly – which is to say, when we flush the soil to limit salt build-up. On one hand, we have the potential for over-watering, and when we act to avoid it by offering dribs and drabs of water here and there, we have high salt levels to deal with. It's easy to see how we all might benefit from use of a soil that allows us to water so we're flushing away excess salts without limiting our plant's vitality via waterlogged soils. You can see that getting to the point where you can water correctly w/o problems is a worthy goal. I should also say, there are ways to get you to that point w/o a lot of difficulty, just by employing some simple methods/arrangements that force excess water from the soil. Al

And in today's environment, the accused was convicted. It just as easily could have been me. My heart and love goes out to this innocent person. What incredible pain he must live in. To be falsely accused and then convicted is the most horrible experience. In the old days we accused them of being witches and burned them at the stake. Now we call them sexual and bury them in jails. Never stop loving. Love is god inside of you. god would never hurt anyone. Love will never hurt anyone. Of course I am talking about real spiritual love not the movie love. I will give an interesting truth of the universe. If you have fear then you always must face that fear until you finally love & trust god and walk through the fear. Then when you find upon walking through the fear that god protected you, you will be healed and never have to walk through it again. For those who fear rape. I suspect they will face rape some day. Because they must face the fear to heal the fear. Those who do not fear being raped will never face rape because it does not need to be healed. The lesson is two fold. do not fear. walk through your fears to heal them. I think it is really bad to teach your child to fear being raped. Better to teach confidence that the child can take care of herself. Give her the knowledge & confidence of what to do in a situation but always make sure there is no fear. Fear is a block to god. Those who do not believe in god will believe in fear. Those who know god loves them and they trust in a good god protecting them will not have fear. Why should I fear when god protects me. Fear says god will not protect me. It is a statement of self non love. If you love yourself then you know god loves you and protects you. All decisions based on fear always are the wrong decision. All decisions based on Love are always the correct decision.

mendopete: The wall and apple core are for those that feel like I do that worms do not need grit. Worms may need or just not care or do better with egg shell in any form but they do not need it for grit. Or any grit. I'm not sure where you are on that. Maybe we need more walls. :-) I cringe every time I read a new poster talk about toxic castings. I cringe every time I read a new poster talk about vermicomposting worms needing grit. I do not think I will have much company on this one. It is imbeded in vermicomposting lore right between kitchen scraps drip worm tea and castings being toxic. However, I was surprised how much company I had on the castings being non toxic topic. chuckiebtoo: I can't say I disagree with any of that post. I think I agree with all of it. I too was going to report back when I had more first hand knowledge from the other side of the stony green lawn. I don't need "some sources" because they would probably be boring. You all here are more fun. I think if Mary knew we were tossing this about so much she would be surprised and rethink her use of the word toxic to more like you and others here have written. I was hoping some of our foreign correspondents would chime in on the matter. It is always good to get opinions from multiple different sources. :-) And I just love the accents and cultural references. Ooh la la! Vive la difference! "Her famous book, “Worms Eat My Garbage,” has been translated into Korean, French, German and Japanese." This topic should be of interest to many vermicomposters who have read her books around the world. mendopete again: "Does this mean the castings are toxic? If I add castings to my garden, am I using worm pesticide? All worm bins need some maintenance at some point. Is this what Mary meant?" #Like. I'm twittering with delight. LOL. I hear ya Harry57. It does say something about the power of Mary's book if 14 years after her death 8 people are passionately debating a single word she wrote in a book first written 17 years ago. That is quite a worm woman! "No one in this country has done more for the self-image of worms than Mary Appelhof, the undisputed and nationally recognized, "Worm Woman." Green Living Magazine Here is a link that might be useful: Wormmania! This post was edited by equinoxequinox on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 19:28

When you use a soil that's so water-retentive you can't water correctly (so you're flushing the soil of accumulating salts when you water) w/o the plant suffering from extended periods of soil saturation, odds are you're going to be leaving a LOT of your plant's potential lying on the table unrealized. Also, if you can't water correctly, making sure your plants are getting what they need, nutritionally, when they need it, is little more than a dream ...... especially if you're depending on soil amendments or the soil proper as a source of nutrients. In the end, focusing on your soil's structure (its ability to consistently provide your plants with a favorable ratio of air and moisture) and ability to maintain that structure is far more important than the soil's ability to feed the plant. With the right fertilizer and a soil you can water correctly, it takes less than 5 minutes to learn how to put in place a nutritional supplementation program that gives you complete control over what plants get, how much, and when they get it. It just doesn't make good sense to use a soil you have to compete with for control over your plants' vitality. Al