Hoo-ray!!! First step to solving the problem.

Dawn:

In Colorado people have moved into the foothills above Colorado Springs and Denver by the tens of thousands. (I was once one of them...) There are both cougars and bears there. Every summer/fall people lose their cats and small dogs to the bears and cougars. It is a part of living up there just a surely as it is a part of living in any country setting.

As you know, rarely a cougar will attack a person--between one and five attacks per year on the North American continent--or a probability of perhaps 1 in 60,000,000. In other words, statistically more people die from toenail infections than from cougar attacks.

Nevertheless, if you can't sleep nights knowing they are prowling out by the barn and chicken coop, then you know your options. Of course, there are legal ramifications for dealing with a cougar--not that anyone but you would be telling when you pull the trigger. But, technically, they should be caught "in the act of predation" of your livestock before you shoot them. Perhaps it's best to turn it over to the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation and have them deal with it? It's their job, after all. And, they would probably trap the lions and move them someplace else--possibly trade them off to another state like Utah, Colorado, or New Mexico where they have ongoing re-population programs and would value the genetic diversity. Give the Oklahoma City main office a call and see what they can do about it...it's their job!

Good luck & best wishes for a speedy resolution...

Robert

Glad someone else has spotted them (I guess!) so now you know what you saw and can take it from there.

Just keep up the self protection and stay inside after dark or early morning. It makes gardening and yard work extremely
tricky. I was spraying the fence rows east today and went toward the back of the farm where it is pretty remote....I thought about your cougars! All I had was the sprayer for protection......no camera, no gun, no phone.

Your sharing this has made a lot of us more aware of possible dangers.

Dawn
In my view, these two traveling together may indeed be juvenile cougars, and perhaps siblings from an unknown source. If they are male and female siblings, this of course would constitute a potential for a "reproducing population" in your neck of the woods.
As I understand it from reading about the same in the Florida area, most of these are inbreds. Just something to think about. Looks like from your recent experiences, these two show no signs of "moving through" your area.

Barbara

Carol, At least someone else besides me has seen them now.

Robert, My DH's cousin was transferred to Colorado and lived in Castle Rock. After a couple of years they packed up and moved back to Texas, which might not have been the best career move for him, but he wanted to live someplace where his kids could safely play outdoors. The cougar a neighbor saw on his porch was the last straw for him....

Our local wildlife people know and have had a trap out for a couple of weeks now. So far, they haven't caught a cougar though.

I am fine at night and only had trouble sleeping for the first couple of nights after my encounter with the one that was 6-8' from me. It is the daylight hours that bother me. In decent weather I am outside all day long, or only early and late in the day in hot weather. Now, I am nervous about being out there at all since both times the cougars were at my garden when I saw them....on the western edge in June and on the eastern edge in August.

All our animals are locked inside secure, predator-proof structures at night, and the chickens (who used to free-range, but no longer do) have fenced runs with fencing 'roofs' and 'floors' on them so a big cat can't jump into the runs or dig in either.

We're just waiting for the trapper to catch one in the trap, and it is a very tedious waiting game....but I really don't like knowing they are here. I'd be happier if they were someplace (anyplace) else.

Glenda, A couple of nights ago I was doing some fencing repairs on the eastern edge of the garden. At one point I was kneeling in the same exact spot the cougar was when I last saw it. I did have a gun with me all the time, and Yellow Cat came with me. Yellow Cat, who was feral for about a decade before he came to live with us, has been avoiding the garden lately although he used to hang out there with me all the time. The funny thing, though, was he sat inside the garden, secure behind the 7' tall fence and I was on the outside of the fence. So, he was with me, but wasn't exactly 'with' me. My spouse said that clearly Yellow Cat was being smarter than I was.

Barbara, As you know, I haven't seen them together but I've always thought the first one was likely male because he was much larger even though he still had his "baby" spots and the second one was smaller, but no spots, so I assumed she was female. So, they could be siblings, or not. Or, they could be mother and son, but if so, she's a really small female. I'd estimate her weight at about 45-55 pounds. Either way, I'm hoping they don't reproduce.

I found the digital camera and carried it outside with me when I went out to lock up the chicken coops, but no cougars came walking out of the woods so I could take their picture. If carrying a camera will make them stay away, I'll carry a camera 24/7.

Dawn

Dawn, A picture would be nice but Scot will need a DNA sample of both to determine parentage. How are going to arrange that? LOL (Sorry Scot, I couldn't resist.)

You need to let two or three of your biggest dogs shadow you all day as you work outside. Do you have some big dogs that will mind you? Blue heelers are bold; you want something that would sniff around and be alert. I would not worry about the dog because mainly it is your peace of mind that is important. Also do your dogs detect an interesting smell where you saw the cat. I think jogging is the most dangerous activity you do. I would also take a dog when you jog.

Dawn, you are supposed to say, "here kitty, kitty" when you want them to come get their picture, and then say "cheese".

...just kidding :)

Lisa

Just an idea, which I think I may have mentioned beforehand. For peace of mind you might really consider a pair of large livestock guardian dogs. I know of someone who belongs to the New Okie Pioneers, who has a mixed (between LGD breeds) dog named Sasquatch. He's huge and from what I hear, he aggressively looks for and runs off, predators. I just can't remember his breeding.

George

Helen,

I have six big dogs that are capable of protecting me, and two very old spoiled ones who lie around indoors in the air conditioning. I have been taking 2 or 3 of the big dogs out to the garden with me but they get bored and wander off to chase rabbits or squirrels or whatever so they aren't terribly reliable, and they like to trample plants in the flower beds.

Our youngest dog, Jersey, does track/trail a scent very well. On the day I encountered the cougar just outside my veggie garden fence, I went and got her out of the dogyard and took her to the spot where I'd last seen the cougar and she backtrailed it precisely. That's how we found the trail through the woods....she took us right to it.

Lisa,

Oh, you are a funny woman. : )

I carried the camera around the rest of the day (gun in one hand, camera in the other) and didn't see a thing. I guarantee you if I had stepped out into the yard with nothing in my hands, those cougars would have been sitting there staring at me.

Dawn

George,

I'd love to have a guardian dog, but we already have 8 dogs so we are just maxed out on animals. (sigh) Eight dogs is already about 5 dogs more than I ever thought we'd have, but we were suckers and kept taking in abandoned/dumped dogs. We already spend a fortune on pet food. I can't imagine trying to feed one more dog.

Our friends up the road have Great Pyrenees to protect their goats. The GPs are terrific dogs.

Dawn

Dawn your story keeps getting better. GW should give you an award for all the posts it is creating. Seeing two proves it isn't a straggler and makes me think that there is a more stable population in your area. It also means that after they catch one that they will probably be at least one if not more left. I'm starting to think maybe some juveniles trying to establish a new area. Be careful and hopefully there will be some more progress soon. Jay

Dawn - well, the good news is ... someone else saw the cougars!!! And the bad news is....someone else saw the cougars....personally, I never ever doubted you for one split second. But I'm sure it's a good feeling to be able to say "See??? I'm NOT crazy!"

And the second bit of good news...YOU FOUND YOUR CAMERA! LOL! On another post you'd commented that you had no idea where it was or if you'd remember how to use it! Good things come to those who wait! Maybe you shouldn't have let that cat out of the bag (pardon the pun). Someone is surely going to hit you up to post pictures of your garden now!

I'm relieved for/with you that you might be one small step closer to ... a solution? Maybe a camera phone would make for one less item to carry? I just recently bit the bullet and purchased an iPhone. It's taken me a week to get the hang of it, but I can already see the many benefits like the fact that you'll always get much better reception with that 3G network. I live just far enough out that the regular cell phone was a problem. I had to go out on the front porch just to talk on it. Now, no problem anywhere in the house. Plus, I installed a radar "app" so if our power goes out during a storm, I can see what's around us. Also, the pictures are GREAT quality and you could use that when your Little Miss comes to visit (or any other critter).

Thank goodness this thread is going to give us a fresh new start! Take care

Paula

P.S. I'm going to try dehydrating some of the multitudes of tomatoes I've got. My fall crop of Roma's are starting to produce...almost a half a bushel every other day from 4 plants! Question - if they're not the small cherries, do you slice them for this? how thick/thin? or half? quarter? I'm totally a novice on this, but too many are recommending this because the flavor is so good. Thanks! (yes, a REAL gardening question!)

Jay,

Honestly, I wish it all would go away.

I am mentally exhausted.

As soon as I got that phone call, I hurried outside to call the kitties to come in (oddly, they came right in instead of hiding from me). I made phone calls. I grabbed a camera and a gun and made a circuit around the civilized part of our property. I made more phone calls and asked more questions.

I completely abandoned my jelly-making and left the kitchen a mess, so of course, I had to come back to it and clean up the mess after I made sure no cougars were lurking in the yard. Tomorrow I'll resume the jelly-making. Luckily, I was in between batches and was at a good stopping place where I was just chopping up peppers for jalapeno jelly.

While I was looking for cougars, the deer showed up in the yard and they were hungry. It was just odd.

I had to close up the garage because I didn't want to walk out there this evening to put the dogs inside it and discover cougars lounging around. (We've had other wildlife venture into the garage, so why not cougars?)

I want my life back. I don't want to have to carry a gun wherever I go. I want for the cats to be able to lounge around the yard and laze away the day sleeping in the shade. I want for the dogs to be able to run around, play ball, swim in the pond, etc. without us having to worry that they'll end up in a dog vs. cougar battle.

I want for everything to just be 'normal'. I'm just a woman with a garden. I want to be able to enjoy the garden and that just isn't happening. I think the cold front is supposed to push through here tonight, and I had big gardening plans. Unless I can get a couple of dogs to hang around with me without them running off, I'm not stepping foot into the garden.

I am being very careful. Really and truly I am. However, being very careful means it is almost impossible to garden. I didn't even step foot in the garden this afternoon, so I guess tomorrow I'll have okra pods the size of baseball bats.

I keep thinking this will end....that "they" will go away and never be seen again. Normally, we don't have a heavy predator load here in summer. Winter time is a different story. So, if these large predators are already here now in August, what will October or December or February be like?

I'm getting cranky about all this. The two of them roaming around in the middle of the afternoon can't be a good sign, and I don't want to think about what it implies.

Dawn

Paula,

I have a camera phone and I wear it in a case clipped to my belt, but I wanted the real camera because it takes better photos. I did have to get someone to show me where the on-off button was because I hadn't seen the camera in so long. I'm so technologically challenged. I truly am.

For dehyrating, I slice the larger ones. For Roma types, I usually just quarter them. The important thing is to cut them into consistent sizes so they'll dry at the same rate.

I was up early and in the kitchen by 5:30 a.m. today, and made a big batch of sauce and also dehydrated about 450 small tomatoes. I also got 4 quarts of sweet bell peppers sliced and bagged and frozen for winter cooking. Then, I started making jelly but that got interrupted, so I'll make jelly tomorrow. I am about to catch up on the processing of produce for a brief time. I only have two big bowls of tomatoes and two big bowls of hot peppers left to deal with.....except that tomorrow I need to pick okra and blackeyed peas. Every time I almost catch up, something happens....today it was the cougar sighting phone call. After that, I found it hard to focus on anything else.

By the way, I do think it is a good thing someone else saw these big cats, but I'd rather it have been someone who lives 15 miles away instead of less than a mile.

You have no idea how much I've tried to convince myself that I didn't see what I saw. LOL Why? Well, obviously I don't want for it to be true. Having someone else see them just makes it "more true".

I am not amused by this at all....not at all.

Dawn

Dawn
You KNOW we here on the Okie GW are so concerned for you, and pray this will soon be over for you. We know how these occurances have upset your lifestyle, and left you unsettled in your own surroundings. I can't even begin to know what you must be going through to suddenly have your peaceful,idyllic world turned upside down overnight. It's entirely understandable that you would be seriously disturbed by what's happened, knowing these things are prowling around.

I'm also quite sure no one here doubted for a minute that you were mistaken in what you obviously encountered. You are just too down to earth and intelligent to have anyone doubt your credibility.

If anything, most all of us have learned some valuable lessons during this, not that lessons learned are the real issue right now. Your safety is. We are all wanting this to soon be over for you, and that you can go back to living your happy, normal and productive life.

If it's any small comfort, I see a plus in the new sighting. For one, you now have a verification from another source to PROVE to anyone, you weren't imagining, or "seeing things". We here already knew that!

Next, I feel hopeful that BECAUSE of the new sighting, that somehow, there is soon going to be closure on this, one way or another. Perhaps someone will now get some moxey and get on the ball about dealing with the situation.

After all, the rule is, "Out of the mouth of two witnesses a testimony is established." Now, you have a testimonial verification. That is good news.

Hoping your shattered nerves will settle down and you'll get some peace back again.
Blessings over you and your's :)

Barbara

I never doubted you.

You might consider taking all the information about the cougars that you've posted, along with any reports you haven't posted (and details of who said what), and putting it together in one file. For me, writing things down and assembling information, like in a chronology, is soothing. Even if you don't have the same feeling, it will give you a written record you can share with the game warden or whatever other people you want to talk to about it. I always forget exact dates or might misplace details, so if I can write it down while I'm not under pressure, then I have it "set".

Also, cruel as it is, you might tether a chicken or a guinea you don't want anymore inside the cougar trap. Bait helps.

Well, I think it's time to get your DH a treadmill for jogging on, or make him go to town to jog!

Don't know that I could tether a chicken inside a trap. But I'd find it impossible to kill a chicken for supper, too. I've lived too long in town.

Dawn, you are helping me be less unhappy with myself for not moving to the country when I was younger! We do have "Neighbors from Hell", but they're not dangerous... just noisy, hateful and annoying.

I hope you have resolution to this soon so things can calm down and you can feel safe again. ((((( Hugs ]]]]]]

I posted this back a month or two ago, and I still think it is good advice: You should contact the people at Cougernet. They are experts on cougars and they would love to prove more wild, native cougars are moving east into this and other areas. If these are two wild cougars (or even two released ones) it would be likely that experts could find sign (and test it) of them pretty easily. I have no idea if they could have someone come out to your area, but they might.

The fact that the wildlife department doesn't have an interest in having cougars in Oklahoma, plus the fact that these have already displayed very abnormal behavior, means that there is almost zero chance they will be released anywhere if caught.

I don't mind the ribbing I have been taking. I actually enjoy it a bit. I still say the behavior and description of these animals would indicate there is a better chance that they are released ones instead of native, wild ones. I also want to make sure you guys understand that even though almost all sightings are false, that doesn't mean in any way that these people are "kooks" that see them. I have a few people I know that I consider to be intelligent and grounded people tell me they have seen black mountain lions here in Oklahoma.

I think if you have followed this story for the last few months, you will not find anywhere where I have ever said any specific person was mistaken in their sighting, especially Dawn, with the exception of sightings of black ones or possibly the assumption that two seen regularly together were breeding pairs. I just try to make sure people are aware of the current facts and then consider your experiences or those you hear about in this context. I am probably one of the few here that are hoping these are truly wild, native cougars (and are not caught, sorry Dawn), and that cougars expand their populations in Oklahoma.

Sometimes I type out these messages very quickly and they may come across a little angry when I read them later, but I don't mean them to be. The only time I got mad about anything was the animal farming video.

Scott

The news just gets worse.

After the second encounter in our yard, our neighbors (who'd most recently lost their mama cat and had already lost 2 other cats fairly recently) told us that they'd talk to a local wildlife official who was a longtime friend of the guy who lives next door. We thought it was a great idea, figuring they'd be more likely to 'help' a friend than to do something for strangers. (Sad, but that's how things work here....it is who you know that matters.) The next thing we heard was that "they" were going to put out a trap. Then, the trapper was supposed to come one day, and didn't, but was going to come the next day at 6:30 p.m.. Some of y'all probably remember that.

Well, on the appointed day, I was working in the garden and saw the guy next door drive by and wave. Another truck drove by behind him and that guy waved. I waved back, assuming it was the trapper and that they were setting the trap in the woods between their house and ours. I asked Tim about it a day or so later and he told me not to worry about...that the neighbor and the trapper were on top of things....and that is what he believed at the time....but I thought he knew they'd taken care of it, but I now know that he only assumed they had.

This morning I found out that the trapper never showed up and no one ever told us that. So, there I was assuming they had a trap out and were handling things and that was one less worry on my mind. I don't blame the neighbor for this, because he certainly has tried to get somebody to do something. The state wildlife people declined to become involved and the trapper was a friend-of-a-friend type thing, and apparently for some reason he decided not to come set a trap. That's the part that makes me want to scream.

As you probably already know, a person cannot shoot a cougar here because they are protected. The exception is that you can shoot them to protect your livestock if they are preying upon your livestock. So, from this point forward, we know it is up to us, and only us, to protect our animals and ourselves and that is what we will do. I am sure the folks next door are just as frustrated as us--after all, their grandchildren are living with them (temporarily while a new home is under construction) and they have cats, dogs and cows/calves as well.

So, we're pretty much back where we started except that we know the state wildlife people have declined to become involved and we know one more person has seen the cougars. And, of course, we understand 100% now that if anyone is going to keep us and our animals safe, it is us and only us. We'll proceed on that basis.

Barbara, This morning, I knew I HAD to pick okra, so I took myself, the phone, the camera, 5 dogs, the gun, extra ammo, a steel fence post and a bowl for the okra....and I went to the garden. It was a bizarre procession.....and two cats joined in so it must have been quite a sight, but I am not going to abandon the garden just because some big kitties are prowling around.

I picked okra and black-eyed peas. Both are now blanched and put up in the freezer, so at least I accomplished something.

Being out in the garden is still nerve-wracking, but I'll just keep going back to it with my merry collection of pets, weapons and accessories until my nerves calm down and I find I can relax and enjoy the garden again.

Gamebird, Thanks for the suggestion. I am going to keep a written record for future reference, but won't bother sharing it with the game warden since they do not care and are not going to do anything. I will have the record, though, in case anything else happens later.

And, thanks for not doubting me. I never really doubted myself because I knew what I saw, but believe me, I wanted to convince myself I wasn't seeing these cats because not seeing them is so much simpler than seeing them.

Ilene, We have a treadmill...and it is a really nice one too, and doesn't get used nearly as often as it should. LOL This morning, when Tim came downstairs in his running clothes, I said "Gonna be cougar bait, huh?" and he quickly assured me that he'd do his jogging on the treadmill in the weightroom (our son's childhood bedroom) upstairs. So, that's something anyway. He often alternates between running inside and outside, so we'll see what he does tomorrow.....

I love living in the country. I always have. This whole cougar thing is very unsettling, but we'll resolve it eventually. We will do what we have to do to keep our animals and ourselves safe. I love the wildlife here....or at least 99.9% of it....and we'll just deal with the rest.

If we can just make it to deer season I think we'll be OK for a while because I am pretty sure that all the hunters running around with guns will scare the big cats away from our area, even if only for a few weeks. Or, maybe one of those hunters will feel compelled to shoot something other than a deer...I'm not saying they "should" do that, but you know that one of them "might".

Scott, I remember that you suggested Cougarnet before and it is something I'll keep in mind. I am not ready to contact them yet, because I need to be sure that Tim and the neighbors are OK with that. Certainly it is clear to us now that the state wildlife folks aren't interested in what is going on here and we are on our own.

Y'all, I have more news about yesterday's sighting.

The cougars actually were closer to 1/2 mile from our house than 3/4s mile. That's probably only important to me....and I thought they were 'too close' at 3/4 mile, so I am not at all happy that they were closer. I thought that the guy who saw them yesterday saw them cross from his place to the ranch across the road, but he actually saw them cross from the neighbor's place south of him to the ranch that sits across the road from both of them. I need to check on that neighbor this weekend, because something's killed some of his animals (chickens) and I told him there was a cougar around 3 or 4 weeks ago. I need to talk to him again to be sure he understands the two cougars were seen on his land this week.

Now, back to the breeding pairs that we discussed after the first incident. When we saw the male/female combo on that day several years ago, several neighbors saw them on the same day. Of course, none of us know if they were a breeding pair, a father-daughter, a mother-son, two siblings, etc., but they were large, full-grown adults and they definitely traveled together....from west to east in the morning, and back from east to west late in the day. Something I find quite intriguing is that they were crossing through the same pasture where these two younger cats were seen yesterday. In fact, from the description given to me this morning, I'd say that yesterday's crossing site is within 30 or 40 yards of the spot the two cats crossed several years ago. That makes me wonder. Is it just a coincidence? Is there some sort of cougar trail there that none of us is really aware of? I know those are questions for which there are no answers, but I do wonder about it.

Scott, I believe there are black cats here no matter what anyone else believes. Too many credible people here in Love County, and also from the Texas side of the river in Cooke County, have told me about seeing them, and the sightings go back at least 20 years. Our own son saw one here in our driveway. I can't explain what they are or where they came from, but I think they are here. Maybe someday we'll find out more about them. I don't necessarily want to catch or shoot a cougar nor do I want for anyone else to do it just for the sake of doing it. What I want, though, is for the people, livestock and pets here to be safe. If it had been your son or your daughter who came face to face with a cougar from a distance of 6-8', how would you feel about that?

I'd like to think we can peacefully co-exist with all the wildlife that shares this state with us, but that is hard to do when you have predators that are moving through the same inhabited areas repeatedly, killing whatever domestic pets or poultry they encounter.

At least there was a period of 6 to 7 weeks between my first and second sighting, so that helped me to relax and feel like "they" were around but that they weren't around too much. Having them sighted again so quickly tells us they likely are around more or less all the time. That is discouraging news.

I don't know what we're going to do. Of course, we'll continue to be careful and we'll do what we can to protect our animals. I will continue to try to get a photo. Meanwhile, I need to get back to work in the kitchen shortly. I'm only halfway through processing all the recently harvested produce from my garden.

I am going to try really hard to get back into my regular routine, with the addition of carrying a weapon and a camera, and taking dogs to the garden with me. If the fall garden is going to be a success, I can't abandon the garden now.....and I need to finish the summer harvest too.
Dawn

Dawn we need to start numbering every thread like a chapter in a book. So the threads won't be so long and easier to keep up with. I hate to hear about the refusal to put out a trap or even check for sings. Doesn't surprise me from what I've been told. It is the same in KS and CO. And basically in NM. It seems everyone thinks if they don't see them or their evidence they will go away. If they ever see the evidence then they have to admit they exist. I hope you can find a suitable way to handle them. My only concern with Cougar net would be if the information would be kept quiet or if it would be available to a lot of people. The last thing you need now it s an influx of bounty hunters. And if the infomation is released you know that is a possibility. Will keep checking back to read the latest chapter. Jay

You are wrong about mountain lions being protected here. This is directly from the Oklahoma Wildlife Department regulations:

Mountain lions can be taken year-round when committing or about to commit depredation or when deemed a nuisance, safety or health hazard.

You must immediately call a game warden or other Department employee if you kill a mountain lion.

The carcass (including hide) will be examined by a Department employee within 24 hours for biological data collection, which may include the removal of a tooth.

.

They passed this regulation a few years ago for just this type of situation. You qualify for all of the situations in that list. They have no desire to actively manage them. Someone needs to kill them.

What game warden or wildlife offical told you they did not want to become involved??????? Did you talk to the game warden there?

Adult male mountain lions do not travel with other lions except during the few days they are breeding. Other than that they would probably kill each other. Must be siblings or mother/son.

There is no such thing as a black mountain lion. The only black cats that are anywhere near as large are imported jaguars and leopards from the exotic pet trade. Americans wiped out every mountain lion east of the Mississipppi. They never found any black ones. Nobody ever has. Period. Perhaps you have someone nearby that keeps exotic pets and doesn't care for them well.

Cougarnet would only release general information if needed. You can look at their other confirmations to see if some are generic. I don't think the release about the picture in Perkins resulted in more people snooping around, but I don't know.

Jay,

I am just tired of it and want it to be over. I want to know I can walk out in the yard and not carry a gun everywhere I go. I want to know the chickens and cats are safe. I want for the big kitties to go play in someone else's county.

Scott,

The next-door neighbor, who is a life-long resident here and knows absolutely everyone is the one who talked to his long-time friend who is a game warden. Neither Tim nor I asked him which of the local wildlife mgt. guys he spoke with. I do think we'll try to pursue it ourselves officially with the local wildlife mgmt. officers next week and see if we get anywhere. It can't hurt to try and it might help, but I doubt it. Once, I was trying to save an injured owl and the game mgmt. people basically told me to just forget about it and let it die. (I didn't.) Maybe there is such an abundance of wildlife (and wildlife issues) here that they don't get excited over much. I don't know.

The game warden did tell DN (Dear Neighbor!) that anyone could shoot a cougar that was attacking and killing their livestock, but that you cannot just go out and shoot a cougar because you want to....you have to have a livestock depradation issue to justify shooting one. He even went so far as to UNOFFICIALLY include pets in that livestock category, but I got the impression it was more of an "I don't really want to know about it if you do it" type thing.

I wonder if we shot and killed a cougar and then called them, if they'd really come? Oh, sure, they're supposed to...but would they? I know some of these wildlife folks and they are terrific people, but they are terribly overworked and understaffed. Now, if it were a deer problem, I bet they'd come on the double.....deer hunting is a huge business in this state and clearly is a priority with the game management officials.

I'm not saying it was a black mountain lion that these people have seen...but it was a black cat of some sort. That's all I can say. They are not seen here as commonly as the cougars, but they are seen. I'm not going to argue with anyone here and tell them they didn't see what they know they saw....because I've been on the receiving end of that argument, even though I know what I saw. I hope someday we learn what the black ones are and until then, I guess we'll always wonder.

I haven't seen any big cats today (relief!) and I hope I am able to say that forever.
Dawn

I would get a game camera on my out buildings and get a picture of it prowling in your yard. Then I would post the picture on line and link it to every site that I could link it to. When you have to kill it, even in the daylight, you will have proof that it snoops around you yard at night.

If what Scot printed is a government regulation, then they will have to respond or suffer the consequences. Everyone works for someone, so there will be someone up the chain that cares. If not, then it's time for a change to the chain.

I remember reading an article on line (with picture) where one had been killed by a car on I-35. I can't find that pic in the archive of the paper that printed it. Go figure!

I posted on another thread and some people thought that I was mad. Oh no, that's not mad. I am just fed up with the "tail wagging the dog" and the minority getting things changed because the majority doesn't speak up. I am speaking up and I think it is time that a lot of people do. Is it safe? No, probably not, but it is the right thing to do.

I am so sorry that you are having to endure all of this and I wish it could all end (happily) very soon. Carol

I'm with you Carol. And I think we can all see how this is taking a toll on Dawn's nerves and sense of security, ( or lack thereof). How many would like the thought of not one, but two Cougars prowling their property, killing their lifestock and pets, and perhaps endangering them? I know I certainly wouldn't. Wild, dangerous predators and humans in close proximity don't mix. No matter how much we may wish that could be, it just can't and doesn't work.

I hate to say this, however the thought crossed my mind, since there seems to be such a cavalier attitude from the Wildlife people about managing or controlling Cougars in the Red River bottomland where Dawn lives, I wondered if they may not only be aware of of their existence there, but be deliberately allowing reproducing populations, for whatever reason. Perhaps not, it was just a fleeting thought, but something seems very strange about the lack of concern. And then on the other hand, if someone shoots one-or more, THEN, they are required to report it-and only then it becomes "an issue", with the shooter being scrutinized for possible violations?

Not all farmers, or retirees who've moved to rural areas there, or those like Dawn and her husband are equipped to be big game hunters or WANT to be! Like-if they say, "just shoot it", well, hmm.

Again Carol, I think your idea of a Game cam, at this point in time, is a good idea if people can afford it, and want to go the route. A good long term investment. And at least a person would know what was prowling around at night, or even in the day time, either now, or in the future, and maybe not be caught offguard.

I frankly don't know what else that can be done that Dawn hasn't already tried, except that old adage, the squeaking wheel get's the grease." If enough complaints were made from Dawn and their neighbors-and often enough, maybe the Wildlife people would finally intervene.

Posting a link here on prices at Bass Pro. I hope the link works. If not, they can be googled. They vary from fairly inexpensive, (don't know how accurate these would be, or the range), to very pricey ones. I'm sure they could be ordered online as well. Just another thought.
Barbara

Here is a link that might be useful: Bass Pro Game Cams

Dawn - don't know if you're considering a Game Cam, but my DH looked over the attached link supplied by Barbara. That second one (the Moultrie) is his vote for the most economical but still useful camera. He's had a Moultrie Game Cam for about the last 12 years and he wishes it would break so he could get one like that (hmmm...think Santa's listening?) Anyway, that one has a 45' range and a 60 day battery life. From what I can tell, the pics can be saved to an SD card (that you could probably get at Walmart) so you could check it often on your computer or maybe DVD player for any activity. Bless his heart, since he's got too much time on his hands right now (laid off but hopefully not much longer) he said HE'D come down and trap the darn cat(s) for you!

I'm totally disgusted with the "word of mouth" response you got from our State Wildlife dept. Carol's right on target with her thinking. Maybe several of us could make a few random calls next week to the 800 number just to inquire on their position to help you back it up. I live rural so it just might be something I need to know too. Be happy to do it unless you'd rather I not.

Seems you're working thru your initial fear and now you're just fed up and mad about it too. Don't blame you one bit! I don't think I'd have been as nice as you've been about the whole thing. How many chickens have come up missing in the last few weeks around you? Too many. Thank God it hasn't been a mauled child.

Don't miss out on that limited time offer for your own personal 'trapper'! It would help a fellow gardener out to have DH out from under my feet for just a little while! LOL! AND...I'm going to start dehydrating some of my first fall-crop tomatoes tomorrow! Thanks for the tips! Glad you're still getting okra...ours has almost stopped with the cooler nite temps we're having.

Paula

Dawn
Just as I was heading to work today my nieghber was talking to
Some wildlife person he was looking for Billy your nieghber he had a trap in the back of his truck had a chicken in it for bait so maybe they got it set. I sure hope so it worries me every time I let my little chihuahua's outside.

I can't speak for the wildlife department, but I can tell you what their official comments have been and what I think they mean.

They officially have said they do not want cougars here as far as reproducing populations to be managed or hunted. They do not believe they are compatible with the density of people we have and the livestock we have.

Unofficially, I think what they mean is that you can't just kill them if you see one when out in the woods because that would cause some backlash from outside groups if they encouraged that type of killing, but if you have any reason at all to fear for your safety or that of your property, go ahead and kill it and you have our blessing. Just have some type of reason so nobody from outside the state gets on our case.

That is what I believe their true attitude is, but it is just my opinion.

These game wardens (all across the state - and all across the country, actually) get calls regularly from people with sightings, many if not most black, so they are not going to take them seriously every time unless there is some credibility to the sighting. You have to convince them based on how close it was and the two times you saw it that you have a high degree of certainty; plus you know many sightings turn out to be errors, but this one you are pretty sure of.

Y'all,

I am chained to the kitchen stove for a second straight day processing a gazillion peppers....an abundant harvest this year is truly a blessing.....and a curse. So, I don't have time to respond to your individual posts on this thread right now, but I'll try to get back and do it later. But, I just wanted to say this to Oyousooner, THANK YOU so much for passing that news on to me. I was hoping that either Billy (I have a neighbor Billy J. to the south and Billy E. to the north, oddly enough, but you likely know that already) would try to light a fire under the trapper or wildlife people since both of them have livestock.

I wish I'd been out in the yard and seen the wildlife vehicle myself but I wasn't, so I really appreciate you letting me know. I'll check with both Bills later today or tomorrow to see what's up with the trap. (Poor chicken! I hope it is the kind of trap that has the chicken walled off from the main body of the trap so the chicken doesn't die.) I have been hearing a rooster crow from south of me since yesterday evening, so maybe that is what is in the trap. All I can say is that it is about time!

OK, I've got to go back to the kitchen and put on my gloves and slice up 7 lbs. of jalapenos for sliced pepper rings and for jalapeno bread-and-butter pickles. This week, I am on a Suzy Homemaker canning binge because the peppers have just gone crazy.

Talk to you all later,

Dawn

Dawn

You are welcome.I did not see the trap but was told it was where the rooster would not be hurt. I think it was Billy j they where looking far, I went to school with him. Don't guess I know Billy E. You know the more I think about this, I might have seen one of these cats last winter I just barely saw the tail as it was crossing the going into Freds pasture, but I know on 2 different occasions I have heard what I thought was a panther screaming at night a real errie sound like a woman screaming got to go to work shortly
let me know what Billy says.

Rickey

So glad to hear this bit of good news.

Dawn
You're like me. I thought of the chicken too, even as I went to bed last night, was thinking the same thing, poor chicken. To be tethered, and have those huge fangs bared , ready to pounce on it. and devour it. Glad Mr. Rooster was partitioned and still crowing this morning!
BTW, in Colorado when they trap Mountain Lions, they "haze" them with rubber bullets. It's sort of an aversion therapy to make them leary of humans. How effective it is, I don't know.

Anyways, this is good news that the Wildlife people seem to be on the ball. Yay!!

Barbara

Rickey,

I think it was Billy J. because the cougar travels from our property onto his, through his woodland that separates us, and then gets his cats. The other Billy lives a half-mile north of me and his house is set back about 1/2 mile from the road---he is fairly new here and you likely wouldn't notice his place unless you noticed the green mailbox by the gate. He lives between the big new house west of J. road and the houses that face Old Burkhart. He stopped by the garden a few weeks ago and told me something was killing some of his chickens, and he'd seen a pit bull around and wanted me to watch out for the pit. I told him to watch out for the cougars, as I'd recently had the June cougar encounter. By the way, it is his property that they were seen crossing the other day, and that surprises me because he has several dogs. Unfortunately, none of his dogs are very large. I hope they're all OK.

Keep an eye on your chihuahuas! The cougar I ran into along my garden fence the other day was walking along very slowly and stealthily, looking from side to side, and clearly hunting. It blended in really well with the dry grass so your little dogs might not notice it....and it absolutely did not make a sound walking through the tall grass. (We've since cut the grass back to stubble. I mean absolute stubble so a cougar cannot sneak up on us. First we mowed the grass as short as we could, and then I cut what was left with the weedeater.)

I am about to go out to the garden to pick some more peppers to add to what I harvested this morning so I can finish the jalapeno bread and butter pickles. When I was out at this time yesterday, the rooster in the trap was having a crowing contest with my roosters. Of course, I didn't know it was a rooster in a trap, and was wondering why they suddenly had a rooster when they've never had chickens at all since we moved here. : ) So, if all is quiet when I go out in a few minutes, then maybe that is a good sign for us and a bad sign for the cougar.

You probably did see a cougar's tail crossing into Fred's pasture. His neighbor that lives on the property kind of behind him has lost 12 or 13 chickens this year, and all but one disappeared without a trace. Fred has seen cougars in the past, although usually when he told me about them, he'd seen them at the old home place on the river west of Allen Rd.

Back later after I finish all the pepper processing.

Dawn