If you know how to prune bareroot material, and prune some and don't prune some, as a control, you'll never again suggest anything by Whitcomb Really? Since all of the many trials I've read Whitcomb's descriptions of used controls, I wonder how your statement fits. Or maybe your point is that you find out with the not pruning that the not pruning backfires, and you wish you had pruned - instead of using part of the batch as a control. Sometimes with rants it can be hard to tell what is being said. I do know that I am tired of topped deciduous stock being presented here or shipped to me. A rare hawthorn I had here for years never got over the topping and got pulled out; a crab I've had here long enough for it to be fully established and growing vigorously is growing even more all over the place than many kinds of crabs do anyway because it was topped. What I am talking about is arbitrary top pruning, as Whitcomb calls it, and not selective pruning. As for Dirr's publications, if you don't know what is wrong with some of the things he says, then you don't really know the subjects he is saying these things about. This post was edited by bboy on Wed, Nov 13, 13 at 15:00

Humic acid (HA) is formed during the humification process (decaying/composting) as plant and animal matter break down. The main source of HA is lignin, which is the most common bio-compound on earth next to cellulose - it's what makes plants stiff. As the organic matter breaks down, it forms several acids called carboxylates and phenoxides. While there are several acids formed during the breakdown of organic matter, they are all pretty much the same. It's probably easy to envision why that is true when we consider that all plants are made up of the same building blocks (nutrients/elements) in almost exactly the same ratio. IOW, there is little difference, chemically speaking, between sequoias and snapdragons. Also important to consider is that peat moss is made up of a combination of cellulose, lignins, and humic acids. This fact is probably what would allow any/all container media producers to lay claim to the fact that their product contains HA. As I mentioned upthread - advertisers often lay claim to things their research shows the general public might consider a huge plus, when it's an intrinsic part of all similar products. Shell Oil used to advertise that their gasoline contained lead to guard against spark knock, when in fact all gasolines used to contain lead. If I thought a little, I'm sure I could quickly come up with another dozen examples more current. I'll leave an answer I posted to a thread on the container forum back in Nov '08. The question posed was, "Does humic acid serve any purpose for container plants?" I drew a delineation between mineral soils and container media primarily because the immense volume of organic matter in almost all container media. This would even include the gritty mix, which has a 1/3 organic component - roughly 6-10 times what you would find in most natural and garden soils. Hopefully, we have built or are using container media with a suitable structure, but even if we were not, the type of structural improvements usually associated with the use of HA in mineral soils do not apply to container media. Where container media is concerned, if the structure is not there from the beginning, the only way you can add it is by adding enough soil particles of the size required to physically achieve your objective, You cannot change container media structure by adding HA or its associates. The reply to the question (about plants in containers) I mentioned a little upthread: "Humic acid (and its accompanying fulvic acid) are most often used as an amendment to improve the quality of clay soils, sandy soils, and/or other soils organically deficient. The primary value of adding humic acid to clay or other compacted soils comes from the resulting structural break-up (increase in friability) of these soils. Obviously, this should not be an issue in the soils you are using. In sandy soils, humic acid's value is in its addition of organic material to soils, which would also in the end improved water retention and root function, neither of which are anything you would be lacking in the soils you use. In some soils, humic acid can also play another role in facilitating a plant's ability to assimilate nutrients. Humic acid can lower pH and help unlock otherwise bound nutrients in the soil that might not be unavailable under conditions of higher pH. Again, this should not be an issue for you, given the fertilizer regimen you use and a known favorable pH. Finally, humic acid can stimulate soil micro-biology in some soils, increasing the numbers and activity levels of soil micro-populations, the primary function of which are to make available minerals and nutrients which could be stored within the humic acid complex and hopefully available on an 'as needed' basis. Again, not much of a benefit when you consider you're supplying a full compliment of nutrients in a readily available form on a regular and 'as needed' basis. I suppose if I was to sum it up, I would say that a build-up or adequate measures of humic acid in garden soils is to be desired & most effectively accomplished by the regular addition of organic materials to the soil. How valuable wholesale applications of humic acid are to garden soils is probably highly variable by soil type, soil composition, and the intrinsic quality/value of the individual product at hand. It's value in containers would probably be extremely marginal at best or go completely unnoticed (as it did when I tried the product for my container plantings several years ago) but there's nothing to stop you from trying it." Al

Hey Houzi, I just saw your post. Thanks a lot, yes my trees seem to have survived. I'm starting to believe the Japanese Maples are much tougher trees than I thought earlier. This will be my 3rd summer with many of them and despite all the negative factors (deep planting, too much watering, hot weather etc... ) not even 1 died on me. I had little hope for many of them last fall as I had removed a major portion of their root system. Some of them I had even bare rooted and it looked as if it wouldn't survive with such a small root system. Now with better conditions hopefully, (hey at least they are planted closer to the "right way" this time with the visible root flare and raised bed) I have much higher hope than before that they will be present in my garden in the long term. The tree marked as Corralinum seems to be like a sango kaku although it is probably a seedling rather than a true type. I still enjoy it, with its shape and colour. The bark was much more pink in winter though. Here are a few before & after photos of only some of my trees which I had posted in this thread

OMG opqdan. I suggest that the next time you ask a question you also include a list of acceptable and not acceptable answers. I assumed wrongly that you were open to any and all answers. I suggest that if you are sensitive to answers that you do not ask questions. and if you do ask questions that you will just have to be open to the answers that are provided. thinking and love are opposed to each other. thinking will always decide to not love. thinking has no idea what love is. I suggest you stop thinking and try loving. everything you wrote came from your thinking. it has nothing to do with the love inside of me. all the judgements you make about me are always judgements about yourself. All that you wrote was a way for you to see what you need to spiritually heal inside of yourself. remember rule #1. It is always always impossible for any person to ever judge another person. we are always judging ourself. besides we are all ONE. so when you look at me, you are really seeing yourself. You are my spiritual brother in Oneness with me through Love. Please embrace everything that has happened here as you will then have great spiritual progress. for I have come here in Love so that you may look upon me to show you what you need to heal. the spiritually enlightened know at all times that every word I have said to you, you have asked me to say to you. the feelings you feel are the feelings you wanted to feel. for these are the feelings you need to spiritually heal. and feeling them give you the opportunity to heal them when you decide and embrace that I DID NOT DO WHAT YOU THINK I DID. Peace and Spiritual Love O Nut