I'm amazed by the complexity of all of this, Dawn... Last year I just had my six little tomato plants, didn't know what type they were... a friend brought them over for me. I planted them the second week of June, having a late start on it all. They produced rather well.

This year I've got eight plants, four Better Boys and four Celebrity's. PLUS I have ONE Celebrity from the seed you sent me, and THREE that I'm not sure about... LOL! I got confused on things. The Celebrity is fairly big, and the three mystery ones are tiny. And I've got two cherry tomato plants (the name escapes me right now), that have blooms on them! NEAT!

I guess I'll go thru my little seed packets and see what I have left to plant! I still have room to squish a few more tomato plants in there... LOL! :)

Beth

I started Rio Grande two days ago (seed) and am doing a few Sioux cuttings, mainly to replace those which died in the rains. I may start some more Tomato Rocky , which is always a bit risky, as the variety, though excellent, is a bit temperamental. This year it is thriving.

George

I got to get my seeds out and look... I know I am going to have some Pineapple for fall did not get them going in time for the Spring.

Dawn,

Do you start your plants any differently for the fall vs. the way you start them for the spring? With it being warmer, I thought you might move them outside sooner and use your light shelves less?

In the spring I put the seed in wet coffee filters inside ziploc bags (sometimes on a heat pad) until they sprout and then into peat pellets or seed starter in small cups under lights. Would you do any of that part differently?

Also do you fertilize at any point before you transplant? I had to hold quite a few this spring since the ground was too wet to set them out and they really looked like they needed a boost. In hindsight I think I should have gave them some diluted liquid fertilizer.

I'm thinking probably the following for us:

Box Car Willie
Royal Hillbilly
Indian stripe
True Black Brandywine
Creole
Abraham Lincoln
Sungold
Black Cherry
Snow White
Opalka

As always thank you for the wealth of information you share with us on the forum :)

Jill

Hi Jill!

Long time no see----hope all is well there.

I start them totally different for fall. I soak them for 24 hours in plain water and then place them directly into the cups of soil. I start them outside in paper cups in full sun. I use regular Miracle Grow because it holds moisture better than any of the seed starting soilless mixes. I water in the morning and in the evening.

Since these plants eventually have to grow in the outdoor conditions, I start them there---that way there is not a lot of hardening off issues. If you choose to start them inside, I'd move them outside into dappled shade as soon as they have true leaves. I have found that seedlings raised inside for fall have a really, really difficult time during the hardening off process--the switch from the cool and comfortable indoors to the hot and dry outdoors is very stressful.

Since they are in MG potting soil, I don't fertilize. However, if they were in a sterile soilless seed starting mix, I'd probably feed with liquid seaweed or fish emulsion or something similar on a weekly basis, but diluted to half-strength. I might even feed twice a week at half-strength because you have to water small seedlings so often in the heat that it tends to leach the fertilizers out of the soil.

I had to hold a lot of mine way too long this spring too, and I did finally feed them, but I should have done it 2 weeks earlier than I did.

That's a nice selection of tomatoes on your list. You have a lot of my favorites on it. I hope you'll remember to come back and tell us how Abraham Lincoln does as a fall tomato.

Dawn

Ya know, after looking over the garden again this morning, I'm thinking I'm not going to star any fall tomatoes, other than a few longkeepers and Peacevines. The cherries currently in the garden look just pitiful. The rest, though, look great, fresh, and just getting really going. I don't think I'll get much, if any, harvest from them before post-summer heat anyway. So I'm just going to pretend they're fall tomatoes planted just a wee bit early. LOL

Diane

Thanks again Dawn...everything is well for me. I'm usually around lurking and searching previous posts for answers to my many questions :) ----- this forum is my favorite place to read and relax.

I think I will try your method, it makes a lot of sense to me. I just wanted to make sure it was a practical approach. Do you have equal success with germination and plants surviving in your fall tomatoes? I want to be sure I start enough but I also don't want excessive surplus.

I will let you know about Abraham Lincoln. I actually didn't start any for this spring so this will be my first go at it. I had intended to buy some from Lisa Merrell but by the time I got a chance to visit her that was one of a few varieties that had already sold out. I figured that was a good sign they were worth growing.

Take care,

Jill

Diane,

I understand. I've had years where the heavy rains have led to a late spring start that has made the spring tomatoes produce really late. I thought this year might be that way too, but I have a lot of fruit set and blooms right now, so I think I'll get a good June/July harvest. Of course, there's no way to know if the plants will go into August in good shape or all tired and used up.

The first year I grew all the Livingston tomato varieties, that is exactly what happened to them. Because I decided to plant them late (I was reading a biography of Mr. Livinston and impulsively decided I had to try his tomato varieties "right now"!), and it was a very, very, very wet year (2004? 2007?), I planted them so late that I thought I wouldn't get much fruit set until fall. I think I planted them in latest May. They did produce late, but produced well in very tough conditions.....because when the rain stopped early in July, it completely stopped and didn't fall again for weeks and weeks and I didn't water them either.

I decided they were my "fall tomatoes" and didn't start many other ones for fall that year.

What's happened to the cherries? Early Blight? Drowning? I couldn't live without the bite-sized types. I also dehydrate gazillions of them to enjoy over the long winter.

Dawn

"What's happened to the cherries? Early Blight? Drowning? I couldn't live without the bite-sized types. I also dehydrate gazillions of them to enjoy over the long winter."

I planted them right before the heaviest/longest of the rains started. Somewhere in that time frame anyway, where they were screaming for snorkel gear. Then because of all the mud & muck, I wasn't able to get them mulched so it was a soil splash extravaganza. So all sorts of damage and stunting and soil-borne disease going on. I've since mulched them and, of course, it's drier now, so some may end up rebounding. I think most will not. The worst of the regular tomatoes, I later replaced but there were no cherry tomatoes to be found for replacements.

Thanks to your writing about dehydrating cherry roms, I plan on doing that for the first time this year (assuming I get enough of a crop). I've dehydrated plenty of other types of tomatoes but it just never occurred to me to dehydrate cherry toms. So thanks!

Diane

Diane,

Let's think positive and believe that they are going to rebound. I thoroughly hate soil splash, but haven't had as much trouble with it as expected this year. I did have my cherry tomatoes mulched before it rained hard, so that saved them from soil splash. Of course, it did nothing to save them from the wet, mucky, yucky, sour soil you get with 12" of rain in one day, followed by about 6" more in the next month. Finally, finally, finally our cherries are regaining good color and growing again (they were planted at grade level) but the regular-sized tomatoes that were in raised beds are three times their size and much healthier looking.

If you don't get to try dehydrating cherry toms this year, there's always next year. "There's always next year"---that's the phrase that keeps us going in both exceptionally wet years and exceptionally dry years. (Not that you probably have dry years there like we have here!)

Dawn

Sorry, I wasn't ignoring you. After looking at Diane's blog photos of the new chicken coop, I forgot to respond to your questions. I get really excited when I see a nice chicken coop! (Maybe because it took us a while to get our "final" predator-proof chicken coop built....six years after we moved here, and it was our third attempt. The first was too close to the woods and we couldn't keep snakes, ring-tailed cats and racoons out. The second was very good but really not large enough, but the third one is just right. So I know Diane is happy to have their coop finished too.)

With fall seedlings, I get germination rates that are just as good as I get indoors in the late winter and sometimes better germination rates. Growth of the seedlings also is quicker since they are in natural sunlight from "Day One". The key, though, is to never, ever miss a watering or you'll lose them because the summer heat and sun can be very unforgiving. If I am going to be gone all day long and they are sitting in full sun on a hot day, I'll pause as I'm leaving the house, give them water if they need it, and move them into a morning sun/afternoon shade kind of place so I don't come home to wilted babies.

I do tend to pot up into larger cups as they grow because the larger cups hold more soil and more moisture.

I wish I lived close enough to go to Lisa Merrell's place, but for me that would be a drive almost completely across the state! : )

Hope the garden season is rocking along well and that you get loads of yummy tomatoes.

Dawn

Here is some food for thought regarding fall or late planted tomatoes. I just remembered this. When we lived in town our back yard neighbor was an elderly lady and we would visit over the garden fence. Her entire back yard was garden. At the beginning a row she would plant in a cluster, tomato seeds. Then when they were about 6 inches tall, she pulled up the clump, separated and planted. I
keep meaning to try it, but never have. I see no reason it wouldn't work.

Thanks Dawn -- I understand the enthusiasm. I'll get mine started today.

Jill

I finally got my fall tomatoes started today. I showed considerable restraint and only planted a total of 30 seeds, thinking that most of my currently planted out tomatoes will last nicely into fall.

Opalka
Hungarian Italian Paste
Peacevine
Tommy Toes (red)
Burpee's Longkeeper

I also started a few basil today -- Jung's Balcony Blend. Last week, I started a flat of Swiss chard.

That's the extent of my fall gardening so far.

Diane

Glenda,

I see no reason why it wouldn't work either.

Diane,

That's not a bad start. After all, it is still early June and you can't plant too much until "holes" start developing in the spring garden. giving you space to fill.

Dawn