"Do seed companies tend to err on the conservative side when introducing a new seed? Is that why all the discrepancies on growth habits?" It depends on how the company makes their money. T&M has a reputation for a broad range of seed types, high quality, and top not new introductions. They also used to have the reputation as highest price, but Park's and Burpee see price increases in the past several year make T&M look quite economical. T&M also seems serious about selling SEED - not garden whatsits and doodads - as you can tell by the fact they they use their Jun 1/2 price sale and their Value Seed outlet to make sure that overstock is sold and grown - not just thrown away. Then you've got companies like the catalog I got yesterday: Inter-state nurseries. They've gor rudbeckia Cheery brandy on the front page - selling plants for $2.99 each. Their hardiness claim is zones 3-9 - which is a mighty broad statement compared to most rudbeckia sellers. They also say "although it's hardy, it literally blooms itself to death with an extremely long flowering period and should be treated as an annual." Accurate? who knows - I kind of think their advertising language is what you'd expect for someone selling CB rudbeckias for $2.99 each. At that price you'd want to sell a bunch of them, make them sound hardy for people that want perennials, but also give a some kind of excuse for why it might not come back AND be sure to suggest that the customer rips them out at the end of the growing season so they can buy more next year. I don't know who "Inter-state" is affiliated with, but the paper of the catalog looks a lot like it could be a Michigan Bulb offshoot. Either way it's going for the same market - which I expect is very different than the customer base T&M goes after. My experience with T&M is that they deliver what they promise, and often considerably more. Cherry brandy should grow just fine as an HHA and will likely be quite a bit hardier than that in a lot of zones - and people who expect that should be happy. And I guess the people who buy Cherry Brandy bu the plant for $2.99 each and plant them in zone three will like them and if they aren't that hardy will take solace in the fact that their plant apparently "bloomed itself to death". Lynda

Annette, I picked up Great Gardens of England from the library Tuesday and have watched all four DVDs. Although I enjoyed walking through all those gardens and listening to their owners comments, this video set wasn't what I was expecting. I guess I thought I'd be going to gardens like Sissinghurst or the ones at very large estates or public gardens in England, with huge castles and a maze or two. But glad I watched them before I purchased the set. Sure do give a person a wealth of ideas though, plus I was amazed that the gardeners did all that tending and work themselves! Simply gorgeous borders, and the woodland gardens were wonderful. Those were my favorites I think. All that planning and designing, whew. Thanks for the heads up on this DVD set. My cousin saw it on the "hold" shelf at the library before I picked it up and wrote me a note saying "I wished that I had reserved this!"

Wonderful thread!! If I may reinforce/add: Kew Gardens - any season - golden pheasants in the rhodo bower. In London, St. James Park!!! Wow! Also, in London, check all the hidden Gardens - not all have high walls, some have nice wrought iron fences!! North of Dublin - Ardgillan Demanse - amazing!!! A monkey puzzle tree, at least 4 storeys high. A fabulous rose garden. The nearby towns and villages are full of private pockets gardens that will blow your mind!! Dublin itself - a fabulous city park, opposite Grafton Street. Outside of Rome - Tivoli Gardens!! The garden is mostly green, but check out the water features!! Rome - the Borghese Park - great if just for the gelato vendors and folly's, but awesome on it's own. Aberdeen, Scotland - check out the Winter Gardens. All under glass - many different zones - excellent. Also, in summer, renowned for its Roses!! Versailles was pretty much shut down for Winter when I was there. Ottawa - Grounds of the Residence of the Governor-General - cool, and once a year they do the Bunny-Hop and open the greenhouses. Festival of Spring - 10,000's of thousands of tulips - donated by the Netherlands in thanks for sheltering their Queen during WWII - thank you, it was our pleasure, and continues to be!! Butchart Gardens in Victoria - even the gardens in the city, and the side streets!!! That's enough for now!! Nancy.

ken - '...multi millionaires and hopped across the pond every year to look at gardens' - don't I wish....! :-) floral - thanks for the info re that cotoneaster. I did some additional checking and I don't think I have a place for it... Is it compatible with growing around/ under other - small- shrubs or would it choke then out? katob - If you're visiting Niagara Falls, stop in at the Niagara Botanical Gardens. The Butterfly Conservatory on the grounds of the Botanical Gardens is also very much worth a visit. The RBG rock garden is a short distance away from the main RBG gardens - if you only have time to visit one site, go to the rock garden! Lots and lots to see in a relatively small site. RBG is a huge property of 2000+ acres. Much of it is 'natural lands' and a lot of their resources are devoted to conservation etc. The ornamental gardens are smaller and spread out over several locations - and not as well maintained! - than you might expect. (They are chronically short of funds, and it shows in the maintenance....!) I'm glad you enjoyed the tour - we certainly enjoyed the garden. One picture I meant to post but forgot is this one: I assume it's a beautybush.... It was foaming out of the hill and was visible from almost everywhere in the garden - if you look at the second picture I posted at the start of the thread, you can see it on the left side. Once the flowers finish, it'd would retreat into the green background, but it sure looked good on Thursday!