Wow, very interesting Katy! Great photos. I'm repulsed and fascinated by that very large beetle, lol.

This is a topic that I've become very interested in recently. Unfortunately, the lack of labeling rules makes it difficult to really know what's in your food and other products. I can't say if there's any one thing in my market basket that I am concerned with; I have a general concern with everything!

A few months ago I signed up for a beef CSA at a farm in CT. Their cattle is pasture-raised, no hormones or antibiotics, etc., and they are slaughtered at a small local abbatoir. The meat is very expensive, but I feel it's worth it. I read a book which I thought was about GM foods, but it had a section on CAFOs and slaughterhouse conditions, and I decided then and there I would not eat meat from a CAFO or any meat from a supermarket, for that matter - in other words, any meat that I didn't know the origin of. Hence the CSA. I also buy my chicken and pork at a store which sources them from local, organic farms.

As far as veggies and fruits, I work at a local organic farm in the summers, and also at the farmer's market, so I have good access for a good part of the year to fresh, organic produce grown by people I know, or at least who I can talk to and discuss the food. The rest of the year I do try to buy organic and locally (i.e. New England, NY) but it can be difficult and expensive.

I'm also trying to get away from processed foods. We don't eat a whole lot to begin with, but I'm trying to cut back even more.

Not food, but I also use all organic soaps, shampoos, cleaners, etc.

One item I am struggling with is Hershey's syrup, lol. I am addicted (literally, I think!) to chocolate milk, and Hershey's is the best. I'm trying to find an organic alternative without high fructose corn syrup and other additives, but when it costs $8 a bottle it makes me pause!

Katy, I'd be interested to see how those workers at the banana plant fare health-wise, working around all those pesticides.

I don't usually buy organic bananas, hoping that the thick peel affords some protection for me. Now I wonder....

Great topic, IMO - and a very important one. I hope others will chime in.

:)
Dee
P.S. I have to add that I am somewhat skeptical of the sudden proliferation of organic brands, especially the store brand organics. Again, between lack of labeling restrictions, and the fact that one local store brand suddenly has everything from organic laundry detergent to organic peas, I just have my doubts...

I have also been a CSA member for 2 years. And like Dee, I decided to stop buying supermarket meat over a year ago. I just don't trust it anymore. So I also just buy meat from local sources, and it is expensive, and seasonal, so I eat much less of it. And since I live on the south coast, I eat more fish, since I can buy it virtually "off the ship" and eat it that same day. My eggs come from the farm next door, so I know exactly how the chickens are raised. Nothing makes me happier than to see "my" chickens foraging in the grass and relaxing on the back of a donkey, enjoying the day. I also buy organic raw milk from a farm that is on my street. I make my own yogurt from that milk. I have not purchased a loaf of bread in over 2 years--I make my own--and trust me--mine is better! And in general, I just stopped buying and eating processed foods. The stores are chock full of organic but highly processed junk foods. I would rather eat a non-organic apple than organic processed junk food. If I want a cookie, I bake it. I am not an idealogue. I just don't trust big corporate food because the business culture we have at the current time seems to place excessive profit and greed way ahead of all other concerns--like my health. Michael Pollan has it just about right I think: "Eat real food, mostly plants, and not so much". And as far as cost is concerned, I am actually spending LESS money on food than I did before I made these changes. If you don't buy any processed foods, which includes breakfast cereals--all extremely expensive, then you can transfer those costs to buying local and spending more on produce. And I have found it balances out--or when I am really in my "zone", I spend and eat less---all good things I think. One quick story to conclude: my mom recently bought some apple juice from the supermarket. When I looked at the bottle, it indicated, in very small print, that the juice was made from apple concentrate from China. So, with a little encouragement from me, she took it back to the store, got her money back, and informed the manager that she wasn't interested in buying and drinking apple juice from China. I felt so subversive. And it felt good. Viva La Revolution!

To diggerdee...We have a grandaughter also addicted to Hershey's chocolate syrup. I had the same concerns about it. Began tinkering with the Hershey's Cocoa fudge recipe. Results below. Try it. I think you will agree that it has the same exact taste and consistancy as the original syrup. Yup, high in granulated sugar, but at least I know what ingredients are in it.

CHOCOLATE SYRUP (Just like Hershey's)
Makes 1 quart

3 cups sugar
2/3 cup Hershey's cocoa
1/8 tsp. salt

2 1/2 cups low fat milk. (I use 1 can evaporated no fat milk plus regular low fat milk.)

1 tablespoon butter
1 tsp. vanilla

Stir sugar, cocoa and salt together in a large, heavy bottomed pan. Stir in milk. Bring to a rolling boil for exactly 5 minutes. Remove from heat. Stir in butter and vanilla.

Buzz all with hand blender while it is boiling hot as these types of syrups tend to be grainy and need emulsifying. Immediately pour into a one quart jar and cap with a lid. Cool and refrigerate. I save quart salad dressing jars to store this syrup.

The issues are certainly complex when we start considering people's livelihoods around the world. I am happy to think that there will be a lot more information and discussion as time goes by.

Katy great photos and write up! So fascinating to look at. I am glad the workers are treated well. How did you get permission to take photos? Seems like companies shy away from this but looks like you got good access to take your photos.

Sue

Thank you, Nandina! You've just "cleaned up" another item
on my food chain. . .but I'm going to tinker some more and
try replacing the sugar with honey, which is SO much more
nutrtious. . .

Rockman has really nailed it: you need not be an idealogue about how you eat. . .it's a fairly logical thought process, once you start working on it. And it IS a process: changing one's attitudes towards food and our eating habits won't happen overnight. . .rather, you grow
into it.

For those who might not be aware, there is some excellent
reading material to get you headed in a better direction:
first and foremost, Barbara Kingsolver's "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle: A Year of Food Life" - however you may
feel about her topic, it's simply a great read! Then, of
course, there's the current "food guru", Michael Pollan,
whose two most recent books, "The Omnivore's Dilemma" and
"In Defence of Food", analyse, dissect, and render under-
standable this complex food issue. After reading these,
you might understand why Bill Moyers, on a recent PBS interview, suggested that Pollan be named the next Secretary of Agriculture - but retitled Secretary of Food !

CSA's are such a great place to start your food transition,
simply because you'll be re-introduced to the taste of REAL food. . .hands down, you'll immediately save money.
I share my full membership with two others, so we can pass the pick-up chores around; but I actually LIKE going to
the farm every week - it allows me to put more focus on my
food, it's certainly a healthy activity (especially when
you're hiking through the fields for pick-your-own crops)
and the people are definitely more social and interesting
than the folks you encounter at your local supermarket !
Local sources of meat, milk and eggs might be more abundant
than you realize, so I've included a national link below,
which you can localize once you enter the site. And when
was the last time a source of your food made you smile?
That image of Rockman's egg-producers riding on a donkey is priceless! - I, too, get to visit "my" chickens, and, on
occasion collect their bounty.

The argument that eating organic (or just better quality)
food is too expensive, is, IMHO, simply a red herring. . .in what other area of your life would you NOT
consciously choose quality? You KNOW that spending a bit
more is going to get you a better made piece of clothing,
that a little extra can mean quality in that car or latest electronic device. Why would anyone choose to "economize"
on the thing most central to your very existence - food?
That's why I so heartily recommend some of the reading
above: it's not just about changing what we eat - it's very much about changing the way we THINK about eating.

Carl

Carl, in addition to the excellent books you mentioned, I'd like to add John Robbin's "The Food Revolution". This is the book which I thought was about GM foods - and it is - but turned out to be about so much more. THIS was the book that turned me around on meat. I was already on the organic road with fruits and vegetables, but "The Food Revolution" changed my outlook on meat. I should warn that it is disturbing, and if you don't want to know, don't read it, because I don't think you can "go back" once you've read it.

While I obviously agree that organic foods are worth the price - after all, I'm paying an awful lot to eat the meat I eat - I do have to say that it's not as easy a decision - economically speaking - as it seems. Yes, it's logical that one would want to put the cleanest, purest, healthiest food in one's body, but in reality, organic food/products are very expensive, and sometimes you just cannot afford to pay the price. I think that's where you have to pick and choose.

One area where I have a lot of difficulty with this is with soaps, shampoos, etc. Labeling of these products is just a terrible quagmire, and the majority of products that claim to be organic are just not. So, my dilemma comes in here - do I pay $10 a bottle for shampoo that is not as organic as it claims, but is or may be a bit better for the enviromment and for me than standard shampoos, or do I pay the $2 a bottle for Suave, because after all, if I'm not really getting a truly organic product, why should I pay top dollar for these "organic" companies to continue to hoodwink the public? I don't know...

Nandina, thanks for the recipe! I'll have to find some suitable bottles for storage and give it a try. One question - how important is the butter? For one thing, doesn't that make the syrup harden in the fridge? And secondly, the one shred that I'm hanging onto to rationalize my addiction is that Hershey's has no fat, lol, so I'd like to keep the butter out if possible. I need to cut fat wherever I can!

Katy, I agree with Sue - it's amazing that you were able to take these photos. I'm glad you could!

:)
Dee

For those of you in southeastern New England, here is a great website for finding local farms that sell produce, fruits, meat, cheese, baked goods and more.

Diggerdee, you probably could leave the butter out of the chocolate syrup recipe. It really is a tiny amount. Don't think it would make a difference.

The answer to your soap dilemma is sitting on a dishwashing liquid soap shelf at Target or Wal-Mart mixed in with all the other non organic ones. Look for Method dishwashing soap. The type with no color or fragrance is named 'Go Naked' and it is totally organic. Not expensive. This is a great soap which has twice the surfactant (from seaweed) as other types, so you only need a few drops for lots of suds. I use it for horticultural purposes when I need a surfactant in my organic liquid sprays. It is in all my soap dispensers and is used daily in the kitchen. I haven't tried it as a shampoo but think it might make a good one; two drops to a glass of water should be about right. Also, try a few drops in water in a spray bottle to clean windows using newspaper to dry. Quick, easy, squeaky clean windows with no effort. Method is also available as a bar soap. A good product.

Thanks Nandina. Maybe I'll try it without the butter.

I've heard of Method, and I don't recall why exactly, but I remember not being convinced they were totally organic. I'll have to look them up again. I think the problem is that you look at a label, and see this ingredient that sounds horrific, and it turns out to be coconut oil, lol. It's hard to tell when you are standing in the aisle at the grocery store. I try to research on line, but after awhile my head starts spinning. I've pretty much covered the soaps, dish soaps, and cleaning supplies. It seems to be the shampoo that's giving me a hard time!

An interesting site, which I've linked to below, is the Environmental Working Group's Cosmetic Safety Database. It helps one determine the safety of cosmetics, soaps, shampoos, etc., by looking at ingredients of those products and checking them against known toxins, etc. A good starting point.

:)
Dee

Dee & Sue,
The photos and access to the banana plantation is not anything extraordinary. Costa Ricas primary industry is tourism followed by exporting bananas and coffee. Their history of being a Banana Rebulic is not too many years behind them so they work hard to inform tourists about their successes. The road that took us to the Del Monte plantation was dirt filled with pot holes in a region where few people owned any type of transportation other than bicycles or their feet. The plantations Del Monte, Chiquita, and Dole are all open for the public to stop (pee) and observe. Again the banana industry certainly has its critics but as they are a year round stable employer they are considered a far less evil than coffee that is a seasonal less regulated crop. Costa Ricans economy has been so strong that the majority of coffee pickers (a hard job during a very hot season) are Nicaraguans.
Costa Rica just stopped using ddt on bananas headed to the US in 1980 so a lot of the studies regarding effects of the chemicals tend to be pretty dramatic infertility, cancer, ect its hard to say what the effect of the chemicals they use today are.
Thought I would mention that although monkeys in captivity will eat bananas they are not part of their native diet. Below are some photos of growler monkeys that Joe and I came across during a hike through the jungle, they were wild about those pink berries.

Interesting discussion. I'd like to add local farmers' markets (if you know the farmers) are often a good source of local and well grown food. One of our local groceries always labels country of origin of fish and produce, which is at least a start. Another classic on food production is the "Diet for a Small Planet" by Francis Moore Lappe, written back in the 70's I believe. Considerations for me include energy required to raise and transport food, impact on the environment (pesticides, land use - including habitats, soil impact, and water use) and impact on human health, both for producers and consumers, but realistically also convenience.

informative series of photos and info on banana farms. Thanks!

Dee's link to the Environmental Working Group's Cosmetic Safety Database is a starting point for determining safety of personal care products, but I'd add that it also takes some careful reading, thought and other information sources. For instance, Fluoride gets a rating of 8 out of 10 on the danger scale. Well, yes, it is not good to consume in quantity, but it is also the ingredient that makes your teeth harder and more cavity resistant. Is it only a problem if consumed or does it have that level of danger when used as directed? Citric Acid (it's in your lemons and oranges) is given a rating of 4 - medium danger. So, don't just look at the raw number, but take the time to read and think about the more detailed data and do additional research as needed. It would be great if all ingredients were accurately labeled as in foods (what exactly is 'fragrance'?!)

I was thinking of this thread today as I was washing dishes, and it brought to mind a thread last year or so, I think here on NE forum, and I thought I might bring it up again.

In light of the new awareness on food choices, I wonder how many of us here have vegetable gardens, or at least grow some of our own vegetables? And if not, how many are thinking about starting?

nhbabs, you're absolutely right - the EWG's site does require a lot of research and thought, and definitely careful reading. But it is, as you say, a starting point.

Carl beat me to the Local Harvest link, but here's another good one.

:)
Dee

I second the recommendation of Omnivore's Dilemma (as well as Pollan's earlier Botany of Desire). I've been meaning to get around to Animal, Mineral, Vegetable, but my book list has just been growing too fast.

Also love the SEMAP emails and website for keeping track of local farmers markets and which farms have different things available at different times. I HOPE that project doesn't get canceled because of state budget problems!

Our small local (not super) market has lots of local produce, and I buy whatever is available there. I'd love to deal with one of the SE MA farms for meat or poultry, but until I find something like that that works for me, I stick with small amounts of organic and/or free range beef and chicken.

We use a lot of Sun & Earth detergent products - are those the ones that only pretend to be "green" by any chance? I just like the way they smell...

Great thread, by the way.

Interesting question, Dee, about which of us grow our
vegetables. In the past, I had always made the attempt
each year, with varying degrees of success -in can be more
of a commitment than you bargain for. When I joined the
CSA three years ago, I stopped growing vegetables, naturally assuming that this new source of produce when be more than enough. . .but this past season, I started planting just a few things again. The CSA can NEVER give me enough garlic, and growing it yourself is so easy; a
variety of pole beans was a nice supplement to the CSA's
varieties of bush beans, and by adding a new pole plant
every three weeks, I had beans right through September.
Next year, I'm going to do a late planting of carrots for
winter use; also a few paste tomatoe plants since I dehydrate them by the hundreds, for storage, and believe
it or not, holiday gifts!

Now, my flower gardens have always included herbs; there
are also a lot of garlic chives, which freeze beautifully,
get added to salads all season, and then BLOOM for me in
late August/September (look for seedlings at the Spring
swap). My gardens have also always included fruit shrubs;
the bluberries, elderberries, and cranberries are all
handsome shrubs in addition to fruiting - alongside the
vegetable patch you'll find raspberries and blackberries,
as well as my eight-year-old stand of rhubarb. Oh, and
there's grape arbor and two potted figs.

Balancing my vegetable garden with the CSA provisions has
been an interesting experiment, and I'm inspired to do even
more, perhaps stretching the traditional seasons more. Any
one want to give me advice on a small cold frame?

Carl

Carl, I put up some cold frames for the first time this year. I can't advise just yet, lol, since I'm still experimenting myself. Unfortunately, it got very cold here very quickly, unusually so, and so I think some of my stuff didn't have a chance to get going before the cold hit. And to be honest, it's *so* cold that I have doubts that some things will make it, but we'll see. I have lettuces, mache, claytonia, parsley, spinach and carrots. But it's so darn cold I'm afraid to open the frames to harvest, lol. I figure I'll have a nice salad on Christmas, and then leave everything alone for awhile.

I grow some vegetables, and I find myself growing more each year. I do work at an organic farm, and I sell at the farmer's market, so I do have access in the summer/fall to good, fresh produce. However, I cannot NOT grow tomatoes, lol, and I also usually grow cukes, beans, lettuce, eggplant, peppers, peas, and last year I tried onions potatoes, and this year I'm trying garlic. I also grow several herbs. I love to be able to walk outside, pick some vegetables, and bring them right in to cook for dinner.

One problem is that honestly, I don't like a lot of vegetables! I really need to broaden my horizons and try to eat more. I will grow some I don't eat - I grow eggplant for my husband and a co-worker, although I don't touch the stuff - although I'm sure if I ate - and *liked* to eat - what I grew, I'd be more enthusiastic about it, like the cukes and toms.

I'm thinking of putting in some blueberry shrubs. I live about a half mile away from a pick-your-own blueberry/strawberry farm (which also grows pumpkins and Christmas trees) so I've never felt inclined to grow the berries, but between my kids getting bigger and "too cool" to pick berries (although they'll darn sure eat them fast enough after I do the work of picking, lol!) and the fact that the farm is not organic, I've been toying with the idea of planting my own berry plants.

:)
Dee

Go for the blues, Dee - just don't forget the bird netting,
or you'll be feeding them, not you ! At first the netting was an awkard encumbrance, until I figured out that
by planting your shrubs in a triangle/or/square format, you
can put several stout posts at the corners with crosspieces
lashed to them - this creates a simple frame for your net
and allows you to lift it to pick. By the way, you may
already know that you need at least TWO varieties (three
is better) for cross pollination - but while you're at it planting multiples, go ahead and plant one each of
early/mid-season/late, and you'll end up with blues for six to eight weeks!

Here's a link for quality mail order bushes; been using them for years.

Carl

I grow veggies - that's how I got started as a gardener, and I can't imagine summer without a veggie garden. Most years I do some freezing of tomatoes and pesto for the winter. I also put onions and potatoes into the root cellar and grow more garlic than we can eat in a year, even though we use garlic in relatively large quantities. I also grow leeks and have begun experimenting with heavy mulching in the garden in the late fall and then digging them in milder winter weather and early spring. Last winter they wintered well, though the snow was so deep I couldn't dig them until much of the snow melted. This winter I don't know how it will go, since they weren't as heavily mulched and we had some relatively cold weather, 0 degrees, with no snow. Prior to last winter I tried storing them in the cold cellar or the fridge, but it never worked too well.

I'll eat most veggies, but my husband is like Dee in that he doesn't like many veggies, and except for onion family vegetables, unfortunately most of what he does like are warm weather veggies like peppers, eggplant, and tomatoes, so they aren't good storage or winter crops. I'd still like to try wintering over root veggies and some greens in a hoop house/cold frame at some point.

I have a few blueberry bushes and cranberries, but haven't been successful with strawberries (the chipmunks get them just before they ripen!), so I get them as well as tree fruits from local farmers. Around here it's quite difficult to successfully raise tree fruits like apples or peaches without a heavy duty deer fence and the orchards use IMP to reduce their pesticide use to a minimum while still getting quality fruit, so I'm OK with that.

Good resources for those who want to grow winter crops in cold frames or unheated greenhouses are Eliot Coleman's books, such as 'Four Season Harvest' or 'Winter Harvest Manual' which are great as far as when to plant crops for winter harvest, what can be grown successfully, etc. At some point in the future I would like to try this.

nhbabs, can you describe your root cellar? Did it come with the house when you bought it, or did you build it, and if so, how? I've been thinking of adding one to my basement, but I'm not sure if it's cold enough, and my house is rather damp, so I'm not sure about the moisture level either. Although, with the dehumidifier down there, maybe I should be worried it's too dry, not too wet, lol. But I've only looked into it briefly, so I would love to hear others' set-ups.

Also curious - how do you freeze your tomatoes? I just tried putting them into large ziploc bags, whole, and freezing them. This method was recommended to me by an Italian grandmother, so I figured I'd give it a try. I'm considering canning, but I'm a little scared to try, I will admit. I do freeze corn and beans, but I really hate using plastic, so I was thinking of the canning to be able to re-use the glass jars - although I have heard there are glass containers you can use for freezing, but haven't really looked into it.

I'm glad you brought up the whole topic of root cellars and keeping veggies over winter - it's a whole 'nother aspect of this overall discussion.

Thanks for the blueberry tips, Carl. Maybe this coming season...

:)
Dee
P.S. I'll second the Coleman books!

P.P.S. I'm sitting here looking at the 6 or 7 inches of snow outside this evening, and wondering whether the snow cover on my cold frames is a nice insulator or a blocker of needed light and heat...

Recently got the Coleman book, but confess I haven't even
had a moment to check it out. . .

nhbabs: overwintering leeks with mulch? That's what I do
with carrots - but don't leeks grow partially above ground?
Would love to try this, especially for leek and potato soup. . .

Dee: I freeze lots of tomatoes, but rather than whole -
which I find messy to work with when defrosted - chopped up
and frozen in their juices. Or, I'll stew up a big batch with onions, garlic, celery and freeze it in pint
Ball jars - leave a good 1/2" or more headroom, and don't
screw lid on until frozen. . .I realize you don't like
plastic, but those tough Ziploc freezer quarts are so great
when you can stack them flat!

My favorite way to keep tomatoes: dehydrate them (paste
tomoatoes are best). . .keep 'em in Ball jars in the pantry for up to three months, jars in the refrigerator for
six months, and up to a year in the freezer! Just reconstitute them in a little boiling water for 15 minutes
(or olive oil overnight) and your winter salads take on a
whole new zip. . .one good friends gets his own jar for
Christmas 'cause he snacks on them as is.

Carl