I don't want to know what all that costs + shipping. If the convenience is worth it to you then there is probably nothing wrong with it. The more you read about OLC the more you realize it is a pretty simple routine process. One does not need all that for a good lawn. A good schedule to keep in mind is one built around the holidays (Presidents Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day and Thanksgiving). Feeding the lawn on those weekends with a good protein and following the basics, mulch mow with a sharp blade and water 1" per week in the growing season will give excellent results. Anything else is gravy.

The shipping isn't so bad. I think they include most of it in the cost of the program.

The difficult thing for me is finding everything. The closest real feed store from me seems to be a 45 min drive each way. Then I'd have to find some of the other items, most likely online and I'd have to pay for shipping anyway.

Between the convenience and gas prices it seems comparable.

Looks like I'm going to go with it. Found someone on another forum that started it recently. The company hasn't been around that long doing organics so I guess finding current users will be hard. There was one other person I found on a blog that said they were subscribers that seemed positive about it.

You just don't need that many applications and considering these folks are just shipping this stuff to you without actually setting foot on your property to see what's happening then I don't think it represents good value for you. The products look fine themselves but it organics should be easier and take less inputs so keep that in mind.

Thanks for the input decklap.

They also have an economy program that is only 4 treatments.

The big thing for me, around the time that I should be thinking about taking care of the lawn in the spring I usually forget so having the stuff mailed to me would help. I was considering signing up for the greenview program last year but then forgot to do it this last spring :)

The more I read about things the more I wanted to go organic anyway.

They haven't stepped foot on my property but neither would any other program I'd be using unless I pay someone to come out or get a "free estimate" followed by a sales pitch to get me to spend 2-3 times the cost of this program for a synthetic one or even more for an organic one.

They took the time to correspond with me and go over some problems with my lawn and I found it to be very helpful.

The value in this for me is that I don't have to hunt around for what I need and it's easier for me to remember following a program like this that mails me the items.

Someone recommended to me that I just get everything myself at my local feed store. Problem is I don't have a local feed store. So I wouldn't mind paying a little more to not have to spend almost 2 hours going to one.

I'm trying to learn more about the organic approach. This forum and the faq's have been very helpful. I think I'm in good shape because I didn't transition from a synthetic fertilizer program. So there should be some good critters in my soil. If I didn't I'd probably want to jump start things with compost from what I've read here. I might still do a topdressing of compost though. Not sure yet.

I feel pretty confident about this.

Now if I can only select what seed to overseed with by august I'd be happy :)

BergenJersey......I assume you are from Bergen County. If so, then there are definitely feed stores nearby. Westwood Feed (in Westwood) sells two products from the CockadoodleDoo company. They sell the corn gluten meal product, as well as the regular fertilizer. For an organic program, you don't need anything more than that if you want to go with something supplied by a "company."

If you want grains, Westwood Feed can order any grain that you want. There is also a feed store in River Dale that will order anything that you want. I bought a year's worth of grains from the River Dale store at the start of the season so that I don't have to go back. The River Dale store is about 20 minutes from anywhere in Bergen County.

There are other options.....Scotts sells their Organic Choice Lawn Food at Home Depot and Lowes. I used that as a winterizer last year and had a very early greenup. You can also get Milorganite at Home Depot or Lowes. Last but not least, Organica sells a multi-step program much like you are interested in, and their products are sold at a few different Bergen County nurseries.

A major potential issue that I see with the program that you are considering using is that I highly, highly doubt that their corn gluten treatment actually has enough of the product to actually make a difference. If you read the studies with corn gluten meal, it takes a very large amount to do the trick, and at their price, I don't think that they could possibly be giving you the right amount.

Thanks for the advice rutgers1. I didn't know about westwood feed. It didn't come up in any of my searches. Westwood and River Vale (I'm assuming that's what you meant I don't think there's a River Dale in Bergen County) aren't all that close to me.

I'm a bit iffy about the scott's organic fertilizer. Need to do some more research on it. Milorganite I probably wouldn't use because I don't like the thought of using sewage that may contain other stuff in it, plus it seems to contain a lot of heavy metals in it.

There's a place I think I can get Organica near me. Organica seems similar. The big thing for me, is I like that they send me the stuff. I haven't been able to keep up with spring feedings so I'm hoping that would help. I almost went with greenview for that purpose.

bergenjersey........Actually, there is a River Dale. It is down Route 287 a bit. If Westwood is too far for you, either you don't live in Bergen County, or you are extremely lazy, lol.

I have been happy with the Scotts organic program, as have others on here and elsewhere. Before you go with that other company, I would look for referrals. That is a long way to send individual heavy bags, and if it doesn't work, that would stink. Also look into the corn gluten meal amount. If it isn't a huge 50 pound bag, then all you are doing is fertilizing your weeds. I learned that the hard way. Not that I really believe corn gluten meal works (few if any here have ever had luck with it), but I do know that it doesn't work at all in small quantities).

I know of a River Vale in Bergen and a Riverdale in Morris. No River Dale in Bergen. Both of which are about 25-30 minutes away from me. That makes it about an hour commute, not counting the shopping time or traffic and almost a couple gallons of gas. That makes the shipping more appealing. It's usually not till late spring that I start wondering why my lawn isn't looking good and want to do something about it. Maybe after my thumb turns green I can branch out on my own :)

I used to have to head out to Westwood once in a while and I just remember dreading it because I'd have to hit a lot of local roads too.

Most of the people in my neighborhood don't fertilize or even water and their grass grows fine. The people that weed and feed and water more regularly have better looking grass in most but not all cases. For a long time I never did much more than mow and I have grass. Last year I watered regularly and put down some weed and feed. Grass looked nicer but I also had a lot more weeds too. Think that the care the lawn had might have caused some dormant weed seeds to germinate.

I might be lazy when it comes to lawn care. :) It's definitely not a priority and while I'd like to have a nicer lawn I don't want to spend too much time. I'd rather spend an hour reading about what I need than an hour driving to get it. I'd rather spend a few bucks on shipping than a few bucks on gas knowing that I won't have to spend time and have to remember to do it.

Not to overcomplicate the discussion here but don't fall into the trap of feeling as though you have to get soybean meal or alfalfa meal to go organic. Scotts Organic Choice retails nationally at Lowes and HD as far as I know and Milorganite should as well. Other products like Restore or Cock A Doodle Do are often stocked at Big Boxes locally too.

Its this simple: You want to increase your organic matter in the soil. Mulching leaves and clippings are the best and cheapest way to that end.

Now Im not saying that all bagged products are the same, they aren't. But their relative merits aren't such that one kind is a "must have". You have lots of options including this company you're dealing with now.

I started leaving my clippings on the lawn. I didn't replace my blade with a mulching blade so I'm not sure how well I can mulch the leaves this fall. Might pick up a mulching blade before then. It's only been a couple of mowings but the grass seems to have perked up and deepened in color quite a bit. Most likely due to the rains we've been having though.

As I mentioned earlier, I have an aversion to using milorganite. The heavy metals is a concern. From other things I read, there may be other things in there as well. A lot of stuff winds up in the sewage system, especially if storm drains are tied to it. Not sure if that is the case with Milwaukee. Pesticides, voc's, all sorts of other chemicals and pharmaceuticals, etc. These things don't decomposes or burn off.

I'm going to look into the scott's program but I have my concerns and haven't found good information regarding exactly what is and is not in the bag and at what concentrations. They're lawsuit against TerraCycle also puts me off from a moral perspective. Most of the ecoli and salmonella incidents seem to be tied to water contaminated with animal droppings so I want to do more research before using any type of composted manure, especially from chickens.

Not so sure about how well CGM does as a fertilizer, but it does seem to help from what I've read. The ability to act as a type of preemergent weed treatment is nice even though it's not as effective as a chemical one.

There's a lot I still have to learn and from looking around at other sites there are a lot of people out there with their own agendas and I'm just starting to learn how to differentiate.

Right now I think this is a good way to get started with organic lawn care. It's easy and relatively affordable. It seems "safe" as the components in it seem to be recommended in different places.

Organic lawns care seems a bit more confusing compared to the three main variables, NPK of a synthetic program. And too many people are trying to make money off of it. The expensive compost bins. I mean just take a 20 dollar plastic garbage can, drill some holes in the bottom and possibly put a pvc pipe in the middle to help with tumbling. The compost tea brewer for $140 that's basically a pump, some hose and connections and a 5 gallon bucket lid. You don't even get the bucket. You can make one for $20 and a trip to a pet store that sells aquarium supplies.

The prices for this doesn't seem unreasonable compared to getting everything individually. That said, I haven't used it yet. But I will be putting up information to document my lawn problems and hopefully a better result :) I'll include my experiences with this program. I should be receiving the first shipment shortly.

I'm at the point with my lawn where I don't even feel mowing it is worth it because it's in pretty bad shape. Probably why I haven't been inspired to pay more attention to it.

The big improvements I think will come from balancing the pH (I already dropped some lime), aerating and overseeding in the fall. The organic lawn program with mulchmowing and watering will help it look greener and healthier. After doing nothing for so many years, I still have grass. It's just not great. I could probably keep doing nothing and have decent grass with just the overseeding and aerating. There are a few lawns in my area though that look incredible. Really nice dark green and very thick. I want to try and get more towards that. Don't think I'll get exactly that unless I completely kill off all the grass I currently have and replant a better variety.

Hi Bergen,

Just my $.02 I say go for it. You have obviously looked into this in a thoughtful way. As others have said there are cheaper alternatives, but it is not as if this stuff is going to hurt your lawn, and if the price doesn't deter you and you find it convenient I agree it is a nice way to start. Particularly since if any problems develop in your lawn you will be able to communicate with these folks about them. And I would guess that from that you will get your own sense of how well their products are working.

Paul

Just to claify there is no chicken litter in the scott's organic lawn food product..
chicken litter is in their organic fertilizer you would buy to use for other plants (I heard it smells). But here we are talking about the lawn food product has no bad odor, smell like cat/dog food. It is a user friendly granular size to use with spreaders, and goes into the soil quickly. (I am a bit frustrated with the "other" organic supplements and spreader issues by now) I overapplied by accident and the lawn is actually doing real well. I am very happy with the product so far. Since I have trouble finding other grains to dump on my lawn, I think I could almost use scott's as my only fertilizer if needed to.

Specifically what are you unsure about with the Scott's product? It's basically the same as Restore. Both are good but I buy Restore when its a cheaper alternative.

I'm concerned about the Scott's product because I haven't looked into it much. Meaning what's in it, is it produced in the same factories as the synthetic stuff, are they mixing in synthetics either purposely or accidentally, etc. The lawsuit against TerraCycle also makes me question if I want to support them by purchasing their products.

Labeling laws are very strict and for the most part entirely reliable which isn't to say mistakes don't happen from time to time but I wouldn't spend much time worrying that anybody is putting an active ingredient into their product that isn't clearly listed on the label.

Thanks decklap, that's good to know.

I'm not sure exactly how to put my concerns. Scotts has a lot of financial interest in synthetic fertilizers so I wonder about their commitment to organics. Are they really putting in the effort to do it right or are they just jumping on the bandwagon to keep existing customers from going to other organic companies and products. There a huge company and have the potential to really muscle their competitors around or out of business.

Are they a benevolent giant or are they like microsoft? I don't know the answer but I do know that purchasing from other brands helps to encourage competition in the marketplace and that should also help spur innovation.

Like I said, the TerraCycle case concerned me. I didn't see the merit of the brand confusion argument. That TerraCycle is a small, local, NJ company puts me more on their side as well.

The couple times I did have to contact scotts though, their customer service was very good.

Hi Bergen,

I don't have any facts to make you feel better about using scotts organic fertilizer (and I don't like the company either, in part due to that lawsuit you mentioned), but the ingredients that go into their regular fertilizers are so much different from what go into their organic offering that my best guess is that not only do these things happen in different plants, but it may even be the case that Scotts has outsourced their organic fertilizer operation entirely, except for the branding, because they are not "tooled up" to do that for themselves and they see this as just an experiment. Again, that is just a guess.

I don't think Scotts is wedded to the idea of synthetics, but rather is focused on market share and profits, as their shareholders would rightly expect. And right now I think they are not sure what to make of the potential for organics in either of those categories, so they are just hedging their bets and seeing what happens.

Just my two cents of course.

Best,
Paul

Good points Paul. Outsourcing production makes sense.

I haven't really tried to quantify it but my gut tells me to be skeptical about synthetic companies' organic products. My gut tends to be right a lot of the time so I'm starting out with other organic sources.

My correspondence with Shel at Organic Lawns for America has been very positive. From speaking with another user I found it seems like they select what they consider the best products and repackage them and provide the convenience of mail order. I know to some this may seem lazy to some but the easier my lawn is to maintain the happier I am :)

I got some soil conditioner which seems to be mostly calcium derived from limestone and an assortment of bacteria and fungi that appear to be soil inoculants as well as some other things that seem to help bring nutrients back into the soil. Going to do some more searching on the ingredients. I saw the abstract of one study on one of the bacteria and it increases the size of tomatoes. The Ca in it should help to. Curious to see how the other ingredients play in other plantings.

No "fertilizer" in this treatment but with the grasscycling, liming and this treatment I'm hoping to see some better color in the lawn in a couple of weeks.

I have seen good results from doing soil samples and applying a product line that will meet plant, soil and ph needs. It is definitely cheaper than anything mentioned here.

For more information e mail me.

i like Ringer fertilizer and their is a company called Organica
http://www.organica.net/consumer4stepnaturallawn.asp

What is amazing to me is that the labeling for the products we use on out lawns and gardens is so much stricter than for the foods we eat, but still since the USDA and FDA are so much smaller today than before Ronald Reagan they cannot do the job they need to do so it is even more important that the buyer beware and do not believe that hype many companies use to sell their products.
If someone is selling you some product they will try very hard to tell you whatever they think you want to hear that will convince you to buy their product, whether you need it or not and most often the price you pay is a premium price. Is Corn Gluten Meal available locally and is the price comparable? How much "fertilizer" does your lawn need and how often? Does this program include something to adjust your soils pH? How will they know what is needed and how much?