martie- how are monarda and artem.labor intensive- because you have to keep them from taking over? or something else?

my list:
no sweet woodruff. it ruined/ate a beautiful patch of VARIEGATED pachysandra(that took at least 7 yrs to establish into an 8' circle.)you can pull it out but never be rid of it because roots are so tiny/brittle. no aegopodium ('Oh, what a pretty leaf!'the undisputably stupidest thing i have EVER done, in my entire life, no question)- same reason except roots are tough. no carex greyii ; great bright green gumball-shaped seed heads but i have never seen anything seed itself like this does.the seedlings are easy to pull out but you'll be doing it forever.

I think my charming tradescantia with lime-green leaves and startling blue flowers is seeding generic tradescantia all over my yard. Must root them all out, including (sadly) the gorgeous hybrid!

Yes, you can keep the artemesia. Alongside of mine, I have green and white striped ribbon grass trying to engulf the house!!

Martie, which Artemisia is it that gives you trouble? My 'Powis Castle' gets quite large over the course of the season, but gets cut back hard in spring. Hasn't been a problem so far in two years.

The Coreopsis (either Zagreb or Golden Gain) left here by a PO had taken over some areas. I pulled almost all of it out. Ditto Tradescantia, though I kept the cultivars that have different color flowers, they don't seem to spread nearly as much.

I just pulled out a whole bunch of Stachys 'Helen von Stein'. It was spreading fairly quickly, and the lower leaves were looking too ratty most of the time.

Sorry -- in haste I probably wasn't clear.

The Monarda are high maintenance in full sun beds, IMHO. Between rampant spreading, fungus, ratty foliage, the bee factor (too many to go near sometimes) and short bloom I'd rather do something else. Part-shade is a possibility.

Artemisia is just one of the plants I "don't get." Yes, in moon gardens it's probably indespensible, it can look quite lovely next to vivid colors, but in my experience it mostly just gets in the way and blobs out too quickly to make it worth it.

Keep the comments coming, please!! The catalogs are beginning to arrive ....

Martie

Chameleon plant - Houttuynia cordata

Kicking myself in the a** for planting it. I was warned that it was invasive but planted anyway, loved the tri-color foliage. It was well behaved for the first few years stayed where I planted it. The fourth year is when it showed me itÂs true nature, it started coming up three-four feet from where it had been the previous year. I realized that I made a huge mistake. IÂve been spending the past couple years trying to remove it as it comes up but IÂm going to have to dig up the entire bed (and sections of the field stone path) to remove every piece of root I can find. It also has a nasty smell to it when you break it.

Rudbeckia hirta 'Goldstrum'. Have tried repeatedly to get it out of my beds but always seems to be a little bit that I miss and within a year or two it is over running it's neighbors again. I prefer Rudbeckia 'Indian Summer', which reseeds nicely but doesn't spread. Some people love the 'Goldstrum' and it has it's place if you have a wild area and equally aggressive plants to pair with it and let them fight it out.

adam

Ditto for Chameleon plant - Houttuynia cordata-I've had the same experience as ParkDriveBoston. Nasty evil plant.

After the first couple of years, I started pulling out all of my Malva plants. They reseed in the middle of other plants and you cannot pull them when more than a few weeks old due to the long taproot.

I've made some really stupid mistakes, like bishop's weed (I don't actually regret that yet, but I assume I will eventually) and Houttuynia. I once had to move across town to get away from a charming little blue speedwell that I could not control.

Most of my mistakes don't reflect on Bad Plants, though, they are the result of right plant, wrong place syndrome. Like the nice blue hollies I planted for privacy, that won't get above 4 feet, or the lovely American Cranberry Viburnum that overhangs a path (and part of the roof, because it's 18' tall - I expected 8') and drops berries where I really don't want to deal with them. I'll be battling vinca minor as long as I live; it doesn't belong in a mixed border, but it's certainly got its place ... somewhere. Blueberries in shade, winter honeysuckle in a mixed bed ... the list goes on and on, and maybe this is off topic anyway.

In the future, I'm REALLY going to try to avoid anything that doesn't grow on its own roots. I've had BIG regrets over this with a liquidambar rotundiloba (seedless sweetgum), hamamelis Diane (witch hazel) and a Magnolia 'Merrill'. After the expense and/or time it takes for these to reach a size where they really function well in the garden, it's awful to see the graft start to fail. From now on, if it's not growing on its own roots, I'll find something else to plant. I may have thought this way before but now I'm going to remind myself, and try to stick to that.

I won't be planting any of the sundial portulaca again. Found they don't grow well for me, thick stems and leaves. When the stems started to spread as a ground cover in one of my beds, the stems would break off, and leaves where always falling off. No good for pots either, even worse in breakage. They keeled over and died after the first frost.
Now my cheapo portulaca, the Walgreens special seed packets, the 10/$1 ones where just spectacular. Double and single blooms, beautiful colors, no stems breaking, or leaves falling off. where beautiful in my strawberry jars hanging over and trailing, and the price is perfect.
Also won't plant zinnia liliput. There is just something about that small pom pom flower that really "bugs" me. Love big zinnias, but not those.
Digging in the Dirt, there is a perfect location for vinca minor. I have it spreading at the end of my driveway, on the side. It's the only thing that will survive in that spot and looks great. Has plenty of room to spread, but you're right, in the wrong place, I know cause I'm still digging out some from the wrong spot, it will take forever.
Considering this stuff survives the sand and salt from our winters, being constantly driven over by visitors to my home, my hubby equates it with the cockroach, will be here a million years from now, just like they will be.

Just remembered one more -- Anaphalis yedoensis. In *partial shade* this plant took off never to be caught again.

And in the non-spreading/reseeding realm, don't think I'll go through the time and expense of hybrid tea roses again. Even with the grafts planted deep, I've not had great luck getting them to do much Year 2. Treating them as annuals feels like a waste to me when there are so many other Rosa out there.

Have gotten quite a few emails from gardener newbies asking for more!!

Martie

About the vinca minor. I have put it under a maple and it wasn't a problem there for years. The bed was also bordered by the driveway so it had no where to go. When I decided to take some and add it to the back yard in an open area...wow...what a mistake! In 3 years, 3 little plants were about an 8ft x 3ft patch. I got rid of it in one season. Instead of pulling it or digging it, I covered it with layers of cardboard and bark mulch in May and didn't water it and haven't seen any more of it all summer. I will be ready to re plant that area with something else, next spring. Much easier to do it that way too.

Adam

I am fairly new to gardening, so my answer is going to be pretty pedestrian. From now on, I will not ever, ever (!) accept plants from people who don't know the real (latin?) names of the things they're giving me, no matter how much I love that person. MIL (and I love her dearly) gave me what she called a "moon flower". I knew she was vague, so I pressed her, and she said to just plant it and it has nice flowers. (Why did I listen?) Well, I did just as advised, and it is an OAK TREE. I am not kidding. Farewell, oh oak, in the middle of my garden bed! And the friend who told me "some people say it's a weed, but I think it's pretty". I was too polite to say no, and they were pretty for about 2 weeks and then they exploded all ove rthe place, and now I have been pulling these purple things from the garden weekly for 2 years! Only taking plants from real pros, like yourselves, from now on. But I have to work on not hurting their feelings... "Oh, it just died off after I planted it" or some such response. :)

donnamp - Even "real pros" like ourselves sometimes pass along plants that can become muisances. I've given away hundreds of verbena bonariensis seedlings, and I DO know it can be a pest. It can be beautiful, too, though! It's just important to let people know if a plant is a prolific self-seeder.

The fact that a plant is being offered usually means that it spreads, at least a little.

It's true, what plants do you give away but the ones that grow the fastest and require division the most frequently..

I look at my Bee Balm (monarda) all the time thinking that without control, it could well take over the world :-)

But it is a lovely plant, the hummingbirds fight aerial battles over the red flowers, and it's worth it for me to have to control it every year. It is native too, growing wild in wet areas.

Ellen

I've found that while there are certain plants that almost everyone agrees are "bad" - such as chameleon plant, bishop's weed, etc. - and those which are environmentally hazardous, there is a lot of disagreement as to whether many plants are invasive, agressive, or just need to be watched. I think it may depend on how much land one has and what one's gardening preferences/practices are (for instance, does one like formal, neat gardens, or more of a cottage or even natural style?).

For instance, I've never thought of monarda as invasive. I was thrilled with the way it was spreading in my garden - it took about 3 years to spread to a clump of about five feet before it died off for some reason.

On the other hand, 2 winters ago I winter-sowed some agastache foeniculum from seed and had spectacular results, so I was giving this plant away left and right - with a warning that it spreads. It wasn't until the next season when I saw how much it reseeded EVERYWHERE that I felt horribly guilty for giving people this plant. I re-warned everyone to watch for it in their gardens and to make sure to deadhead. However, when I referred to this in a thread here once, many people chimed in to say they loved the way it spread and didn't think it was a problem.

And my verbena bonariensis didn't last but one season! :( So it can be difficult to decide which plants to avoid.

I also have to add that as a beginning gardener, I planted chameleon plant and bishop's weed three separate times. After they died on me the third time I gave up, and now I'm glad they never took hold. I may still get some bishop's weed, because I think it's so beautiful, but it will definitely live in a pot on the patio, next to my pot of creeping jenny!

I now try to research a plant as much as possible, and get viewpoints from as many gardeners as I can.

The only plant (so far) I won't plant again (other than the above-mentioned chameleon and bishop's weed) is delosperma Starburst. But this is not because it's invasive, but because I can't get it to overwinter. Three times I tried, and no luck.

DtD, you made me smile. I see you have some of the same problems as I do sometimes with unexpected results of certain plants - your "4-foot privacy hedge" brought a smile to my face, lol! Sometimes it seems like no matter how well you think you do your homework, things don't turn out the way you hoped!

:)
Dee

Darn, I guess I'd better go pull that sweet woodruff I planted this year :( I have the world-consuming artemesia as well. I spent a lot of time pulling it out of where I didn't want it and pruning it where I did. I probally will regret it more each year it is in my front bed. I regret planting the violet that my friend gave me when I moved into my totally unlandscaped house. It is now everywhere!

Enjoyable thread...very thoughtful and interesting responses.

Very entertaining story about your MIL and oaktree donnamp..lol.

Dee, I agree with everything you said...also I do the same, put those plants that can get away from you in a pot on the patio. I LOVE a pot of creeping jenny..and the beneficial insects I love to attract loved mint on the patio this summer too. Thanks for the tip on the agastache, I just got those seed, and will re think that. [g]

DtD..I know why you keep giving away the verbena..because crazy people like me ask you for it..lol.

I have done fairly well over the years, I have always wanted low maintenance, so I have been pretty careful. I inherited a bishops weed, but it died out..imagine my luck! It was on the north side of the garage.

This thread is an education, thank you for saving me!
:-)
Adam

There are some safe ways to grow some of these perennial plants and not have them take over the gardens. By accident
I found a way to do mint.
Spent 10 years digging it out on the side of the house. It looked like the prior owners had planted a field of it and it was everywhere. When it started coming up in the front yard, and the front walk, I took out the dreaded roundup that I had bought for the poison ivy. Before I used it I dug up one plant and put it in a 10 inch pot. The rest finally became history.
anyway, the one in a pot did fine all summer. In the fall I put a coffee filter in the bottom of new plastic pot, filled it with miracle grow potting soil, and put the mint plant in it. then dug a hole at the edge of my woods and sunk the pot in it. In the spring I dug up the pot and the mint was fine. Been doing this every year since and no spread of the mint, just my one plant. Coffee filter prevents the roots from going anywhere. 15 years, one mint plant.

My monkshood is now amongst the missing. I love the color, but it was badly placed. Don't want to start an epidemic. Just what this thread is for!! Thanks ...

In my younger days I grew Asperula odorata (Sweet Woodruff) to make May Wine. For the first three years I thought it was the greatest thing on earth, but people turned it down at swaps. Why???? I found out year 4. Record breaking wine production that season and then -- Outta There!

Martie

I've been having a terrible time getting my sweet woodruff established after four years. This year it succumbed to the drought and there's not a speck of it left. I love this plant, and have seen it in many gardens where it's well-behaved. I'm hoping to see some new growth in the spring... fingers crossed!

:)
Dee

Sheep sorrel... well I didn't plant it, but I failed to control/weed it. I saw it in a witchhazel container I planted several years ago. I had some success with letting volunteer plants (weeds) grow into unexpected prizes like smartweed, wood poppy, and pokeweed.

The sheep sorrel has been a real bane to my vinca minor bed,which is not strongly established and can not suppress the sorrel outbreaks.

Yea-I have the darned sheep sorrel too. Fortunately it is easy to pull out-it has a root system that doesn't grab the soil all that well. Matter of fact I just weeded it out of a raised bed that holds two japanese maples today.

Like I said I love the foliage on the Chameleon plant. This year when I was pulling it up I decided to put a bunch in a medium sized pot, looked good too. We'll see how it over winters. If it doesn't make it I'll always have more to pot up.