Wow, I haven't seen any forsythia in bloom here in SE mass. I agree with Fran, though, that cady's mystery shrub is more likely to be a forsythia than a winter jasmine, if only because my winter jasmine isn't blooming yet.

I saw a cherry in bloom on Friday in the Boston Gardens...Boston Common Garden...you know what I mean -- the more formal landscaped garden to the west of the common....

The Boston Public Garden? :)
Maybe they should force some bulbs and put them in the beds there, to complete the illusion of spring. This has been a very weird season.

Camellia 'Winter Darling' have about 10 swelling colored buds and probably will start blooming in a week or so.

You grow Camellias outside??? How much extra work is involved???

Would be a nice illusion of spring, especially after the weather forecast I just heard tonight. Watching for possible snow on Monday folks. Looks like winter is really going to come afterall and Monday will be Dec.
Sigh, and I was enjoying all this warmth.

Thanks about the viola, digging in the dirt. I have a lot of seeds but have not traded any because my germination rate on the ones I got from value seeds was very poor last winter. Ws about 70 or so seeds and only got 6 seedlings to germinate. Not sure if it was the seeds or the weather. The did get about 20 inches of rain in about 2 weeks time fall on them.
Also not going to put them out till April since I found out they need 60 and above temps to germinate.
Hope to have lots and lots of them and have them at my spring swap.

Fran

"Camellia 'Winter Darling' have about 10 swelling colored buds and probably will start blooming in a week or so"
EGO,
I just checked my "new to me" baby today and it has 3 red/pink buds ready to explode. I will post a photo as soon as it blooms. kt

York Rose, they *do* grow around here - I've killed many myself - you just have to provide the right situation for them. Which I, apparently, have not done in the past; but ... next time I will. My sister (on Long Island) has a garden full of them, and it's really no colder here than it is there.

I am anxious to hear how George grows them - I admit I don't understand their cultural requirements at all. My sister has them all in fairly deep shade, and she's got a dynamite irrigation system, and fabulous soil (damn her!).

Just a stray viola here and there.

There is a whole line of zone 6 hardy camellias that have been under development since the 1990s. I think they're the "Winter" series (e.g. "Winter's Promise" and cultivars like that). I managed to kill two small starts I bought at Logee's last January, before I could even plant them outside. But I'm going to order some good sized shrubs next season.

Re: Hardy camellias

Quote from the Master, 'The New England region of the U.S. has never been considered "camellia country," yet these plants are thriving in coastal regions of Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts. A hardy camellia is no longer a dream.'
Dr. William L. Ackerman, a Research Geneticist.

Scoup of general info I gathered from different sources.
Due to extensive breeding work done by Dr. William Ackerman from US National Arboretum, there are more than twenty z6 hardy cultivars available now.
They all have Camellia oleifera in their genealogical tree and inherited two main characteristics of the parent plant:
a) hardiness to -15F (-26C),
b) fall-winter bloom time.

There are some early spring blooming crosses (with C. japonica blood) on a market right now as well.
However, they are usually little bid less hardy (-10F/-22C) and since they'll bloom in March-April-May, when we have non-problematic azaleas and rhododendrons blooming, they present lesser value to our gardens. Add to this possible bud-kill by our late freezes and you'll probably agree with such notion.

Growing conditions and soil requirements.
Basicaly, exactly the same as for rhododendrons/azaleas, with one notable exception: NO EASTERN EXPOSURE. Western and Northern exposures only.
In another words, plant it somewhere where it will not see sun in a winter, otherwise it will be burned.

Planting time and winter protection.
Unlike az/rh that could be planted/moved any time of the year, camellias (in z5b/6) should be planted as early as possible in a spring and not only mulched year around, but also covered (burlap/leaf filled cages etc) for the first couple of winters. Fall planting is possible, but less desirable and more protective measures should be taken.
Transplants well in early spring, less so in a middle/end of the season.

Everything said before was a 'theoretical' knowledge.
Practically, I got two 1G plants this year from Roslyn, just before they closed their doors.
Since it was in June, I thought that I don't want to put both plants in a ground and risk to lose both, I planted one (NW-exposure) and still keeping another in a pot, which I'll overwinter in a pool house (my equivalent of the cold frame) along with potted tender hydrangeas.
Both were a single 8" twigs at the time of purchase, but right now 'in-ground' plant is twice larger than his 'in-pot' counterpart, though they are two different cultivars (Winter Darling and Winter Beauty) and might have a different rate of growth.
Both have swelling buds right now, though WD(in-ground) have 9 of them vs 3 on WB (in-pot).

That's all I could share at the moment.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hardy camellias

Cady, I was told that 1 to 2G camellias have a better chance to get established in z6 than a larger ones.
FWIW, no first hand experience.

Forest Farm has a lot of Z6 Camellias listed if anyone is looking for a source. I'm seriously considering using one or three as base plants on the southwest corner of my house. Glad that this was brought up, as I was wondering about true hardiness. Also glad to know that Cady killed some so if demise occurs here I won't feel quite so bad :-)

To the original intent of the thread. LOL Blooming here is self-sown pansies, one lone "Independence Day" rose, common Thyme and a potted but outside Rosemary. No false starts sited, yet.

Martie

Martie

I've had roses in November before, but never in December! Okay, it's only December 1st, lol, but still... Here's Heritage (or is it Ambridge Rose??) from this afternoon. With the high winds and rain today, it may be gone tomorrow!

Dee

Here is a link that might be useful: a rose in December

I've got 6 Knock Out roses (three different shades of pink/red) blooming away, one Carefree Delight and one Carefree Wonder rose. Add to that one confused Echinacea Kim's Knee High and one Osteospermum.

It's in the 60's today, but high wind and then cold is on the way.

The Carefree Delight rose whose flowers turned all white in the cold, is now reverting to pink flowers. The same petals are changing color, apparently in response to the temperature. If they survive the wind, I'm curious to see if they turn white again in the next few days. Temperature sensitive pigment?

Claire

Wish I had some roses left! But if I did, I'd cut them and bring them in today - winter's on the way!

The last bouquet.

'Tis the Last Rose of Summer

Thomas Moore, 1779-1852 (poet)

Sir John Stevenson, 1761-1833 (lyricist)

'Tis the last rose of summer,
Left blooming all alone,
All her lovely companions
Are faded and gone.
No flower of her kindred,
No rose bud is nigh,
To reflect back her blushes,
Or give sigh for sigh.

I'll not leave thee, thou lone one,
To pine on the stem;
Since the lovely are sleeping,
Go sleep thou with them;
'Thus kindly I scatter
Thy leaves o'er the bed
Where thy mates of the garden
Lie scentless and dead.

So soon may I follow
When friendships decay,
And from love's shining circle
The gems drop away!
When true hearts lie withered
And fond ones are flown
Oh! who would inhabit
This bleak world alone?

Here is a link that might be useful: Melody

Thanks for the tip on smaller Camellias, ego45. Guess I'll try #1 and #2 plants instead of larger b&b. When we have our January trip to Logee's I may buy some more slips, as well. The "Winter" series is hardy here, and I'm determined to "make" them succeed!

And, that ode to the Last Rose of Summer (along with George's bouquet) brought a tear to my eye. I'm writing as the cold front screams in from Worcester, pushing the 65F-degree temperatures out to sea and replacing them with December.

Claire,
You may not have noticed but I am a passionate lover of poetry particularly garden poetry. Would you be willing to start a garden poetry thread...how better to start the morning than with a cup of tea and beautiful imagery. kt

Osteospermum - thanks, Claire, I'd lost the name on those. I have the white with blue centers, they seem unaware of the fact that it's December - so far. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

kt:

George's last bouquet just seemed to call for a melancholy ode; a sigh of farewell to summer. I surprised myself by remembering its existence so I went searching for the Last Rose of Summer.

However, I'm not really a garden poetry devotee so I'll defer to anyone else who has enough passion for the genre to tend a thread. Actually, the melody touched me more than the lyrics. My morning usually starts with a mug of coffee while I stare out the window looking to see what the birds are up to at their feeders.

Claire

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm having a hard time even considering putting up Christmas decorations outside when I have roses still blooming.

I notice lights popping up here and there in the neighborhood, but it seems surreal, like the photos of Christmas trees in Florida.

Claire

Claire, I hear ya! I can't believe how many houses are all decorated and lit up already, and here I am planting bulbs, raking leaves, and amending my beds today! I'm still walking around the garden looking at my rose (singular, lol!) calendulas, sweet william, brown-eyed susans, and today even found a foxglove ready to bloom! I feel like I'm back in October. I still have my pumpkins on my front steps, lol.

I thought the same thing the other day - that this must be what Christmas in Florida is like!

:)
Dee

Camellia 'Winter Darling' scored first flower today:

Oh, George, have a heart! (I'm gasping with envy here...)

And, thank you for all the cultural information; I copied it into a file on my destop for future reference. Nothing like advice from someone who is growing a plant sucessfully in the same or similar region, you can't get that just anywhere.

Winter Darling is just beautiful, it's on my Christmas list.

Ah, there should be an ode to the first camellia of winter!

Claire

OK, with apologies to all real Haiku poets out there:

Ode to the First Camellia of Winter

Blossom of the south
opens to northern winter,
glares in defiance

Claire

Christmas lights are going up in my neighborhood, mainly homes with kids who are getting squirmy waiting for Santa Claus.

One how near here is dressed up to the max with every type of light and lawn figure. Over the top, but cheery.

We made wreathes in floral design class last week, and I felt sheepish bringing my wreath home and putting it up in 66F weather. But the forecast is for slushy snow tonight and tomorrow, maybe an inch on the coast here, so at least for a while (until the slush melts) the decor will look seasonally correct.

Claire,
Wonderful Haiku. Thanks kt

Thanks, kt. It probably doesn't matter to anyone but me, but I modified the Camellia Haiku after waking up in the middle of the night and fussing over the word "glares". I decided "proud" is more in fitting with the tradition of the Old South. Therefore:

Ode to the First Camellia of Winter

Blossom of the south
opens to northern winter,
proud in defiance

Claire

Claire,
That's what I love about Haiku's the single word holds so much importance. I like the image of "proud" more than "defiance". Thanks kt

Nice haiku Claire! I definitely like "proud" better than "glares" - sounds so much more noble, lol!

Well, I think today my garden is finally done. Even though it's been very cold for several days, until yesterday I had geraniums (pelargoniums) blooming on my back steps, some foxgloves, calendula, sweet william - this morning everything was wilted and withered.

Actually, I'm kind of glad. I've got 200 or so pots waiting to be brought into the garage for the winter, and maybe now they will finally go dormant! Most of my perennials have been looking mighty good this fall! Perhaps now they will finally take a break and go to sleep so I can drag them inside.

I can also start to think about putting down shredded leaves. I don't dare do it until the ground freezes because I don't want to invite the town's entire vole population to winter over in my yard. Not that the ground is frozen overnight, but at least now it should be on its way.

:)
Dee

Thanks, Dee. "proud in defiance" has overtones of Scarlett O'Hara shaking her fist against a winter storm. An alternative would be "proud but shivery" which would bring up images more in the line of Ogden Nash. I can almost hear Garden Webbers silently screaming ENOUGH OF THE POETRY!.

Yesterday I started spreading compost on the beds, and I put up the first of the Christmas lights outdoors. The ground is freezing up, at least to the point where walking on wood chips is no longer soft and bouncy.

This is way early for me since I was raised in the tradition of tree and lights up for Christmas Eve and take them down on Epiphany. I continued that tradition for years in an apartment in NYC, but this new neighborhood likes to get lit early in December.

Claire

kt:

I don't know if it will assuage your desire for garden poetry, but there's a haiku thread running now on the Soil, Compost and Mulch forum.

Claire

Here is a link that might be useful: Haiku time again

Claire,
Thank you, thank you, thank you, I have not enjoyed and evening as much since Cadys "Lucky Bamboo Post". You are quite the Peterus...what a gift...in that vain a great holiday gift for your friends might include one of your haiku's. kt

I saw that thread on the soil forum, but didn't have a chance to read it yet - but I did think of you, Claire, when I saw it, lol!

I forgot to add last week that my friend has snowdrops blooming in her garden! The poor things must be confused. I saw them again today and they are still going strong!

BTW, so much for my above thread being thankful for the very cold weather, so I could get my pots inside. Sheesh. It's been hovering around fifty degrees for the last three days or so. I actually brought a few pots OUT of the garage today.

While I don't mind this warmer weather while I'm amending beds, etc., I am NOT looking forward to lugging 200 pots into the garage during 30-degree weather. I just want to do it and get it over with!

Not to mention getting the shredded leaves down. It's bad enough my neighbors must think I'm weird because this weekend I was in the woods raking up the leaves and taking them OUT of the woods (to shred, of course, but they didn't realize that, lol!) My neighbor keeps yelling over, "Aren't you finished yet?!" I just smile and wave and keep on shredding!

:)
Dee

Dee, while reading about those shredded leaves as a winter mulch I always was curious how one could keep them in place on a windy days.
Could you elaborate?

Lovely haiku!

I noticed several blooms on my honeyberries-I'll be bummed if this messes up the fruit production next spring. I would miss my several handfuls of tangy berries.

I also see blooms almost ready to open on the Hellebores. Isn't it too early for these?

I found few opened flowers of hellebores today and see dozen or so ready to bloom buds, as well.

Both camellias still blooming!

George, I have a Flow-tron leaf shredder (Christmas gift a few years back from mom) and it does quite a good job of shredding the leaves. Depending on how dry they are, (the drier the better) sometimes it's so fine the pieces of leaves are as small as a half inch square. Of course, I get the occasional whole or half leaf in there too, but on average, the shredder does a very good job. When the leaves are like this, for some reason they don't seem to blow away as easily. There is a bit of blowing around when I remove them from the bag and spread/throw them on the beds, but that's it. And I do usually water them down also. Once that's done, the leaves don't really go anywhere.

I even put them in my raised beds, which are in a pretty windy spot. (In the photo below, the beds without leaves have oats in them. I'm experimenting with a cover crop this year, but I think I didn't sow thickly enough!) Of course, it just dawned on me that this photo was taken in the rain, so obviously the leaves aren't going anywhere, but trust me, they stay put in dry weather too, lol!

I guess I'm finally all bloomed out. But I do have some nice rose hips going, and also my callicarpa still has some nice purple berries.

:)
Dee

Here is a link that might be useful: raised beds with shredded leaves

As I was going to post the above picture, I had to go through some shots of things in bloom from the summer, and of course that's bittersweet at this time of year, lol. But when I saw this shot of my morning glories on my back patio (which quite frankly isn't even a great photo, or at least not a "peak bloom" photo), it really hit me how bare and forlorn my patio looks now!

That happens to me often. I go pretty easily with the flow of seasons. I really like having different seasons, and don't think I could live in a place that doesn't have them. But it never fails to almost surprise me, in winter (or late fall), when I'm used to the garden being bare, when I see a picture of my garden from when it was in bloom. It's like I almost forget what it really looked like.

Gee, I guess it's a good thing that my gardens aren't all that hot to begin with - otherwise I might drop dead of shock in the winter when I see a photo of them, lol!

:)
Dee

Here is a link that might be useful: back patio

Oh my goodness, Claire!
I am going crazy now!
It is all your fault!

Went to mulch forum.
Read that thread you mentioned here.
One with the haikus.

It's driving me mad.
Now I'm thinking in haiku!
Always! Cannot stop!

Welcome to the club!
It will get worse, not better.
No hope, no future.

Haiku addiction
is stronger than any drug.
Cold turkey might work!

Didn't work for me,
but you may have more success.
Good luck and stay strong!

I just noticed this thread still going. I'm pretty sure nothing else is blooming out there, although I haven't checked where the small bulbs are planted. Last time I checked the Hellbore were not budding or blooming. I am very surprised to still have foliage on the butterfly bush and the roses. All of the deciduous shrubs in the yard have dropped their leaves, what is with the roses and butterfly bushes?

claire, that was a great poem. I never take the time to look at poetry but I do enjoy it when someone selects something that I don't have to figure out symbolism. [g] That was a really special one and I had never heard it before. thanks for sharing. :-)

It is a real treat to see a photo of your camellia ego...pretty color and the foliage look so healthy. :-)

Dee, I took a look at the photos of your garden and enjoyed the tour. :-) I also have one raised cinder block bed but it is only one block high but similar in size to yours. The chopped up leaves are great in the raised beds. We put ours in the compost bin too. I just wanted to mention to anyone wanting to chop up leaves, I don't have an actual leave shredder, but our lawn mower does a great job on it. It is true that for some reason they really don't seem to blow around once they are chopped. A little rain or a hose helps too.

Dee, I also enjoyed the photos of your viola 'Rebecca' and Geranium 'Samobor'. I just added that Rebecca viola last year and I was uncertain whether I really wanted it, but once it bloomed, I was so happy with it and really look forward to it next spring again. The 'Samobor' is one of my favorite geraniums too...the foliage so pretty. Thanks for sharing your photos. I did the same thing last week. I was looking for a date of bloom for one of the plants and found myself searching through the summer photos and it does present such a contrast to what the yard looks like now. lol So sad..spring can't come fast enough for me.

:-)

Thanks pm2!! I just got a new camera - well, not exactly "just" got it. It was last year's Christmas gift from DH. It is quite high-end and complete manual override, which is just what I wanted - except I still haven't taken the time to really learn how to use it! I've basically just put it on auto-everything except focus, and then take shots. It ticks me off though that I can't turn off the flash and set the exposure myself. I guess this winter I should sit down with the manual - although that's what I said *last* winter, lol!

I adore that viola I have. I'm not 100% sure that it is Rebecca. I got it at the swap, can't remember from whom, and I don't think they were sure either. But it does look like Rebecca to me. I love it anyway, but I'm kind of anal when it comes to having named plants, lol!

That geranium Samobar was a hitchhiker in a pot of daylilies I got from a swap also. I think they were from Sue. I had to post that picture to get an ID. It is indeed a very pretty geranium, and next year I will separate the two plants and get them in the ground.

pm2, I do have one cinderblock bed (just barely visible in the photo) that is only one level high. I can't decide which I like better. Visually speaking, the one-level bed is not as intrusive in the landscape - let's face it, cinderblock beds are not exactly a thing of beauty! But functionally, I like the two-level beds better. But either way, I am very pleased with the beds in general. A lot of work to build, but well worth it.

:)
Dee
P.S. Claire, I'm really fighting the urge here....

Ok-I want in on the game!

Hellebore blooming
It's too warm for December
January snow?

Dee, I went back and looked again and I did see that single row cinderblock bed in your photo. I think we did the single row because I just didn't want to fool around trying to get two rows to sit securely on each other. I did what was fast and easy more or less, because I wasn't sure I would like the cement block since I always did wood and I thought I would try it. I think the two row is much better for growing and for sitting too. [g] I have been growing hens and chicks and thymes in the holes of the cement which makes it more fun and still doesn't get in my way when trying to work in the beds. They will last forever I am sure, which is the whole point for me. I also wanted to mention a few other photos...your Deutzia is very different. I haven't seen the pink form at all. Very pretty. That siberian iris is so pretty, very delicate color/shading. The lilies...WOW...just love that particular lily. Is it the regal lily? I am not adding any more lilies anymore because of the red lily beetle, although I would love to. What in the world is that caterpillar?!!

Your camera takes great photos. I am without at the moment but hoping for one for Christmas. What kind is yours?

Nice photos Dee!

:-)

Hi again pm2!

Those cinderblock beds were an absolute bear to build for me! The ground there is solid ledge, with maybe up to 3 inches of soil in spots. I had no help at all, and built the things with a shovel and a five gallon bucket to move the load of compost from the pile to the beds. It was a lot of work to make them level.

Sooooo, once the bottom level was done, that was pretty much the hard part. The second layer was cake (although of course it meant filling with more soil/compost, bucket by stinking bucket!) I staggered them like bricks, and they are fairly stable. I also filled the holes with compost for added stability. It is great to be able to sit on the edge while working, and I also grow things in the holes. I think in the photos you can see what remains of alyssum and parsley.

I love that deutzia too. My first and so far only deutzia, from Bluestone. Quite a beauty and if I recall correctly, rather long-lasting. The siberian iris were from a swap, and I want to say that they were from Sue (vtskiers). The lily - isn't it beautiful?! I'm a sucker for apricot-colored lilies and roses! I went outside and couldn't find a tag, and then came in to check my invoices. It may - MAY - be Fairest. I say that only because that seems to be the only lily I have that I can't find a picture of, lol! The pictures of other lilies on my invoice(s) don't match this lily, so I'm guessing it's Fairest - although the description says its a cross of an asiatic, and I thought this particular lily was a type of Oriental. Anyway, I will try to discover what it is.

The caterpillar was some nasty thing that either stuck me or bit me, several times, before I even saw it, and made my hand swell. They were everywhere that day! I don't recall the name of it. (Gee, I'm beginning to realize that I'm pretty forgetful!) Where was I? Oh yeah, lol! I posted about it here and someone gave me an answer. But when I first saw it hanging off my hand, I didn't even think it was a living thing. I thought it was a piece of paper or something!

And lastly, my camera is a Canon EOS Rebel XT. My DH plays with it more than I do, and it really takes some nice photos. Hope Santa brings a camera for you!

:)
Dee

January snow,
and February snow too.
March, April, May, (sigh).

Claire

Dee,

When you built your beds two layers high, didn't you have to do something to keep them in place on the top layer? Like rebar through the holes or anything? Sounds like a lot of work, especially without a wheelbarrel! My husband did ours and I thought I was asking him to do an easy job, but you are right, the leveling was a bear to do.

I was looking at the offerings of Bluestone Perennials and hope to pick up a few things in the spring. I did buy from them before and had pretty good results. LOVE that deutzia! I bought a Miss Kim lilac from them and it was very fragrant last year.

Don't worry about the name of the lily, as I sadly won't be buying any. But enjoy yours, it's a beauty!

Great camera choice. I have read the reviews and that particular model is supposed to be a winner. As evidenced by your great photos. :-) Yes, I hope the camera will be under the tree. I missed taking photos half the summer, when someone stole ours. Speaking of memory loss..[g]...I am not up to keeping a journal and I found last year, that photos were also helpful in remembering things. Especially time in bloom. I haven't yet got in the habit of labeling photos with the correct names of plants though. lol

Thanks Dee! :-)