You should be fine planting Moonbeam in early fall, just make sure it is in a somewhat dryish spot if you garden in clay, perhaps a little high, and not somewhere where the melting snow runs off. I have two large clumps, one in a regular mixed perennial bed & the other with daylilies. The first clump is over ten years old. I find that Moonbeam likes rich soils, but needs to be dry in order to winter well in the cold here. It also needs to be rejuvenated every 3 years or so as it seems that its long bloom seems to deplete the soil somewhat. (I lift them, split them up a bit, replenish the soil, & replant them in the same spot, or as I did once, use some to start another clump elsewhere). Moonbeam does get a late start for me in spring & it is easy to mistake it for grass or weeds, so mark it well. I also tried Baby Sun & Tequila Sunrise (a variegated variety) late last summer and they both wintered over well in a raised bed & have bloomed heavily for me this year as they did in their first year. Creme Brule was planted last year in the spring between some established daylilies & wintered over, but it is still too new to tell if it will be a long lasting perennial. I'd also wait till next spring to plant most other varieties of Coreopsis. Early Sunrise has wintered over for a couple of years in my garden, but its survival/return is always iffy here. IME, if you plant 3 to 5 plants, one or two won't return the first year, several will live a couple years and one, if you're lucky, will persist for 4 or 5 years. They do bloom for a long time, with larger blooms than the others I mentioned, so it's a tradeoff, depends what you want. I only tried Zagreb one time. I fall planted. It returned but never flourished, seemed to be stunted, perhaps from planting late & I finally removed it after a few years. Other gardeners I know have had no problems with it at all. As someone said, the really pretty newer varieties of pink coreopsis are annuals here. However, I have had some luck with rosea. It is a spreader, doesn't really clump for me, & unlike most coreopsis it prefers consistently moist soil. It seems to like the moist lower edges of my daylily bed. Be warned, however, it is a pale bluish pink which does not go well with peachy pinks. I have it planted with Cerise Queen Yarrow (behind on higher drier ground) around some small orchid daylilies (Siloam David Kirchhoff) at the front of the bed. A very pretty combo when it works - the dl sometimes bloom too early, while both the CQ yarrow and C. rosea are mid to late summer bloomers for me. Ah well...:~) that's gardening!

do it just before the ground freezes ... when your plants are already dormant ... maybe mid to late oct in z5????? with spring thaw.. and rains.. it will wash the good stuff into your soil .. you are spot on on not doing it when the plants are trying to harden off for winter.. that is a real bad time to mess with anything that MIGHT be a fertilizer ... hard to tel with generic bagged manure ... we want it there for spring.. might want to keep the bags in the garage.. so they arent frozen solid. when you decide to do it.. lol.. been there.. done that.. ken

Skeptical of certain plants and their survival in certain areas, perhaps, but I'm not sure how I sound patronizing... I think you misinterpret my meaning... I'm not criticizing your understanding... I'm simply not sure whether you are visualizing my growing circumstances and actual locality as they are... and since you don't have your zone or locale included in your visible member information, I couldn't know you are in Indiana, and I still don't really know what part of Indiana or what your individual growing environment is like. It could be quite different from mine. Let's start at the beginning, shall we? I've been away from the forum for quite some time, so I haven't yet had the pleasure of getting to know you through your postings. I haven't had much time to gauge your level of gardening, nor get a feel for who you are, your writing style, where you garden, etc... and I don't know how much you've read about me in past threads. One thing I've learned in the many decades I've been gardening is never to trust the data on a plant's commercial tag... very often, they contain culture information that's not quite truthful. In order to find what's closer to the truth, one must do some research... and by some research, I mean using several resources to get a feel for what's correct. I've seen tags on supposed perennials at certain garden centers and listings in catalogs that contain obviously incorrect data, but a sale is a sale to some companies... and many consumers aren't that concerned with having to repurchase should the plant die. As I mentioned in another thread, the industry is what it is. If a plant is rated zone 5, I will often consider it borderline for my individual conditions, and opt instead for something rated at zone 4 or 3, to ensure a better chance of winter survival, and better peace of mind for myself. Our gardens are so packed that I have few protected places left to put things. Tender Amaryllids and other unusual bulbed plants are a personal interest that I dabble in... hardy old garden roses are our business, though we're a young business. As far as I'm aware, most Hymenocallis are native to more tropical and subtropical areas. Only a very few Hymenocallis grow in Illinois, Hymenocallis caroliniana being one... but only in the very southernmost areas of the state. It's not a bulb I could leave in the ground through winter as I'm much farther north. I don't think I'd want to risk it. Crinum is another bulb I'm fairly certain is more common to tropical and subtropical areas. Lycoris, too, generally do not survive winters as far north as I live, with the exception of Lycoris squamigera. I have never seen any of these plants growing in this general area, nor have I heard of anyone leaving them in the ground through winter. Most, to my knowledge, are considered "tender". I'm familiar with the name Jim Shields... I've read quite a bit of his writings. In many of those writings, he mentions having bulbs planted in what I would consider protected areas, such as up against walls, greenhouse walls, etc... which may account, in small part, for some of his success. His main success stems from the fact that he's very knowledgeable of the bulbs he grows and what they require. He also notes that Lycoris squamigera does not generally set seed, and yet... I had seed pods galore in all of my Lycoris patches. My point being, different gardeners can experience very different results. I'm originally from the Illinois/Wisconsin border area, which is a mere 3 or 3 and a half hours away... and many of the plants I couldn't grow there, I am able to grow here with great success. There are many factors that contribute to a plant's ability to survive and thrive through the climate conditions of a specific gardening zone. Just because you or Jim Shields can grow some of the bulbs you mention, does not mean I can expect the same success. There are simply too many variables to guarantee such a thing. I offered thanks for the bulb list you wrote, which took effort you certainly did not have to expend. I'm still not sure how you would consider that patronizing. When I said thank you, that's exactly what I meant... thank you. :-)

1. It is very difficult to find eyes on them right now. - True. I ask the question - Where would I be if I were an eye? Usually if you get enough of what you call a 'hump' - you will end up with an eye. 2. "...in many cases, 2 or 3 tubers are connected to the same hump." - I will often just keep those two tubers together. It's better than keeping everything together. 3. "There are some tubers that dont seem to be connected to a hump at all..." Yes. the most frustrating part of a healthy tuber clump is that it is a big mess. The best thing is to start with the ones that are obvious. Then, it may reveal the ones that are less obvious. There are some tubers that are not on a 'hump' and they just might not get an eye. Last year, I left some clumps all together, and other clumps I divided and wrapped tubers individually in saran wrap. The saran wrapped tubers were much healthier in the spring. I agree that it is usefull to watch the videos; but I'll be honest - the videos sometimes annoy me because they make it look SO EASY. It's not. :)