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scottfam125

Should I wait til spring to plant amaryllis outside?

I may just try a couple different ones outside but wondered if I should wait til spring to plant them. Don't they sell them in the spring too? Or not?? Thanks, Judy

Comments (15)

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In the northern states, Hippeastrum are only sold in the autumn, usually when Christmas items start hitting the shelves.

    I'm not sure what the procedure is in the south... sometimes, I think you can get what they call "garden amaryllis" in spring, too.

    Personally, I would wait until spring... only because, if you just bought them now, they're primed to bloom around Christmas... I would pot them up, enjoy the blooms, and then transfer to the garden in spring.

    Perhaps someone who lives in the south can help you more appropriately.

  • dondeldux z6b South Shore Massachusetts
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I too would wait until Spring to plant in the ground. They will have the entire summer to grow a tremendous unfettered root system that will help to sustain them through the winter. Be sure to plant them entirely covered with soil and in the fall heap on lots of mulch to help insulate them from whatever cold you may have in GA. They must not freeze, they aren't like daffodils... I'm in MA and every year I say I'm going to leave a few in the ground as an experiment (6b) but I always chicken out at the last minute.Please do try a couple and let us know how you make out..:-)

    This spring I bought some heirloom type hippies off Ebay and did plant them in the ground..we dug them up 2 weeks ago and I couldn't believe the root system and how large they had grown..they absolutely thrived in the ground. They were planted close to a huge rock pile which would have helped to keep the ground from freezing this winter, but I just couldn't do it...but in a true zone 7 maybe I wouldn't be such a chicken...

    Donna

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  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm in gardening zone 5b, and we have a few things growing in our gardens that typically shouldn't be surviving our frigid winters... we have lovely Crepe Myrtle, some Rose varieties, a Gladiola or two... none that are rated to survive the harshness of zone 5b, and all of which die back completely to ground level over winter. But they somehow manage to survive.

    Perhaps it's because we offer nice thick layers of protection, try to plant them on the lee side of buildings or natural cover, where they are afforded a little more protection from winds... or perhaps they are simply stronger genetic representations of their varieties/species... I really don't know.

    What I do know is that Hippeastrums are tender bulbs, not able to acclimate to such things as frozen ground or the frigid winds and temperatures of the northern zones. To the best of my knowledge, zone 7 is the very coldest zone any can survive, and that's with every extra precaution taken. Old fashioned varieties such as xJohnsonii may be able to thrive in a zone 7 garden.

    The only thing close to a Hippeastrum I can grow outside in the ground, through our winters, is Lycoris Squamigera, more commonly known as Naked Ladies. They're lovely pink lily type flowers that form nice clumps if left undisturbed. They resemble the only true Amaryllis Belladonna... which is also tender and not a cold weather lover.

    You could always try planting a few inexpensive big box store Hippeastrum bulbs... then you wouldn't feel so bad if they didn't make it through a winter.

  • Prettypetals_GA_7-8
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You guys are great! I think I will try a few and see how they do. Our ground is workable year round and never freezes, well it may freeze on the very top but I can usually dig anytime of the year. I was hoping since I will be planting them up next to the house that that would help some too. Now I feel brave!! lol!! Are there some great places you all order from?? Thanks for the help, Judy

  • joshy46013
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Judy,

    If your ground never freezes I would say that with the proper mulching you will do fine and you may not need to mulch, in zone 7 Tennessee during spring you find Hippeastrum blooming everywhere!

    I know several people in Zone 5 that grow H. xjohnsonii just fine but I would assume it might be a micro-climate and I wouldn't expect that in every area.

    Hippeastrum are a sub-tropical to tropical bulb, some species are from areas that experience freezing where as some do not, H. vittatum hybrids seem to fair well in colder weather (hence 'Appleblossom' and x johnsonii') look up xJohnsonii online and see if you can't purchase it.

    There is no way to know but to try ;)

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would definitely say a zone 5 grown xJohnsonii that survives from year to year is the product of a micro-climate that it seems able to tolerate! The majority of zone 5 ground freezes quite solid to about 20", the average frost line being around 30".

    As a precaution, I wouldn't want to bury any expensive bulbs the first year as an experimentation... but that's up to you. There are several very good mail order vendors, but places like that would cost a bit more than your Home Depot or Lowe's purchased bulbs.

    Royal Colors is one everyone seems to like... White Flower Farm has a nice selection... and I'm sure other posters can recommend more...

  • joshy46013
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jodi,

    I think it's possible to hybridize for cold tolerance, maybe not for zone 5 but many species in Uruguay freeze such as H. harrisonii, H. angustifolium, H. vittatum (several varieties) and a few others which survive. Many of these species are also intended for swampy areas and live completely submerged during their growing season. I know a fellow in Japan that grows H. angustifolium in a ditch in his backyard and it absolutely thrives! Most aren't familiar with the aquatic species of Hippeastrum which could totally defy the standard practice of Hippeastrum hybridum if implemented into breeding practices.

    With H. harrisonii, H. breviflorum, H. angustifolium having quite flamboyant flowers, possibly requiring freezing temps to bloom (according to some authorities) as well as thriving submerged in water combined with other tolerant species (The Andean Species) this could create a wonderful new standard in Hippeastrum breeding! Sadly all the aquatic species are incredibly rare and if you aren't understanding of the basic necessities of these species they'll die off well before maturity!

    It's also possible that there may be a species
    undiscovered or void from cultivation that may have a mighty cold tolerance such as the sister genus Rhodophiala with their many alpine species (which many grow above the tree line). If it weren't for the maritime climate in which they're accustomed there are many Rhodophiala that could be grown in Zone 6 and likely 5.

    Many of the Hippeastrum used in hybridizing at this point are from the tropical areas of Brazil, Central America and Peru with few being from the Andean regions, Uruguay or Argentina.

    PHEWW, my little fingers are tired ;)

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When you say "freeze", Josh, how long are you talking about, exactly? The freezing we experience in Central Illinois lasts for several months at a time.

    Of course a plant could be bred toward better hardiness... hybridizers do it all the time... but it would take quite a while and a dedicated breeding program, complete with detailed record keeping, a lot of knowledge, and everything else involved.

    Breeding is something I am rather familiar with, having spent the past 30 years working exclusively with Molossers, namely the Performance (Scott) type American Bulldog. Form follows function... if you are dedicated to a specific program, breeding for specific traits, and you know what you are looking at and for, and following through with culling out the poor specimens, it's entirely possible to arrive at the point you have in mind, and then maintain it. There's a lot of data that needs to be crunched... science, math, history, etc... and a breeder has to also keep in mind that while genetics can be manipulated to a certain extent, they cannot be completely controlled. That's something Mother Nature simply doesn't allow... and humankind hasn't exactly figured out yet. There are a lot of variables in breeding, with environment playing an equal part to genetics.

    Thanks to modern hybridizers, there are now many beautiful rose varieties that can be grown in the north, and many other plant types, as well... which up until recent decades were impossible to keep alive through the winters.

    On the other hand, quite a few commercial growers forgo hardiness in favor of bloom size, shape and color, or plant habit, etc... hardiness being an unwanted aspect. If the plants survive from year to year, less consumers will repurchase, and profits will be less.

    In reality, though, most average weekend gardeners don't go through the effort to find out more about a plant they want to grow than what is printed on the tag it comes with... so learning about the history, the ancestry, how and where the species of the plant originated and grows, and other factors simply aren't important... we live in an age of convenience... and avarice.

  • joshy46013
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jodi,

    While I'm not saying these species can withstand zone 5 winters (which I experience as well) they can withstand periods of freezing as this is detrimental to the blooming of these plants according to the late Len Doran in more than one species. They can handle much lower temps than than some of the other Hippeastrum. Many species are found in Subtropical areas in South America which is included in parts of Brazil, Peru, Argentina, Uruguay and some others.

    Also, these bulbs are not ugly, they're beautiful flowers with H. angustifolium being a much more vigorous version of H. cybister, H. harrisonii reminding you of a beautiful trumpet shaped lily and H. breviflorum being quite floriferous.

    I'm not suggesting they retail the species but there is a huge probability that breeding with these species will improve water tolerance as well cold tolerance. The reason they aren't being used at this point is because only a small percentage have these species in cultivation and not because they aren't beautiful with large, showy flowers because they do.

    With the implementation of these species I think the average weekend gardener would have much more success growing these beautiful plants without sacrificing beauty.


  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It would actually be great if some hybridizers would work with Amaryllids, breeding many types toward better hardiness and moisture tolerance... there are several I'd love to grow here, just plant in the ground and not have to worry about digging when cold weather rolls around again.

    That's one of the reasons I don't grow some bulb types... because I have to dig at the end of the season... and I simply can't do it.

  • joshy46013
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jodi,

    Not sure if you're interested but there are some hardy amaryllid you can grow!

    MANY Lycoris, some Crinum as tested by Jim Shields and myself, Hymenocallis which are native to Indiana and Ill. Nerine come back, the very hardy bowendii for example is listed to zone 6 but it can withstand zone 5 I've learned. Rhdophiala bifida has several accounts of withstanding zone 5 here in central Indiana by Jim Shields as well as a fellow in Illinois in zone 5.

    Lycoris:

    sprengeri
    chinensis
    incarnata
    squamigera
    sanguinea

    Hymenocallis

    occidentalis
    liriosme

    Crinum

    bulbispermum
    x-powellii
    variable

    Rhodphiala

    bifida

    Nerine

    bowendii

    Amarcrinum hybrids are very hardy, I have a wonderful hybrid that blooms every year for me!

    Sternbergia as well which is a cute yellow flowering plant similar to crocus!

  • joshy46013
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I forgot to add,

    There has been hybridizing Lycoris with some South African varieties such as Nerine, these could also prove to be very hardy!

  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    From my experience, given the climate I live in and the individual environment I have to offer plants, the only Amaryllid that survives here, planted in the ground and left over winter, is Lycoris Squamigera, of which I have several nice patches.

    My gardening zone is a very cold zone 5, in a flat area devoid of hills or mountains or cityscape. I'm out in farm country, where the wicked winter winds whip through the yard, and windchill can reach temperatures way below zero degrees F, along with the actual temperature, which can also dip below zero for short periods of time in a bad year. We experience ground that freezes solid from December to March, with an average frost line of about 25", we get several feet of snow, ice... it's a harsh climate.

    "Hardy" is a relative term...

    As far as I'm aware, many of the "hardy" bulbs that you've listed will only survive as far north as zones 6, 7... and maybe a particular micro-climate within zone 5, depending on several variables.

    Those variables could include, but not be limited to, methods of culture, protection offered, the general type of area... as in suburban or city, where you've got lots of buildings blocking winds, a lot of pavement and concrete, exhaust and warmth from industry, general living, and traffic, etc... and the genetic strength of the bulbs, themselves.

    I have a very limited personal budget, so If I obtain a particular bulb, it's because I've saved my pennies to get that bulb, and I really want it. I've found it safer to grow my precious little hoard of bulbs in containers if I'm not certain they will survive our winters. I simply don't have the means to buy bulbs for testing purposes, to see if they'll make it or not.

    I do appreciate the listing, Josh... I'll keep it in mind for future growing trials. I'm just not certain you understand what I mean when I say that my immediate environment is harsh and conditions unfavorable for many of the items you mention.


  • joshy46013
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jodi,

    I live in Indiana so I do understand what conditions you're speaking of and so does Jim Shields which grows many of these plants in open garden set on lots of acreage, he is very

    These aren't based on what a "Garden Center" or some label on a plant suggests but real gardeners who grow these plants in real places which many are experts in Amaryllidaceae.

    While you criticize my understanding I think it's you that may have overlooked many details such as the Hymenocallis being native to Illinois, the Lycoris I listed are primarily listed as USDA 5 or 6 (excluding the winter growing species that I excluded) and the Crinum variable which is also fully hardy in zone 5 (in central Indiana, in flat corn fields where it gets just as cold, where I grow it myself as well as many others).

    While you say you appreciate it, it certainly feels a bit patronizing reading your response. I have little money to spend on plants as well, most of my plants come from swaps...


  • jodik_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Skeptical of certain plants and their survival in certain areas, perhaps, but I'm not sure how I sound patronizing...

    I think you misinterpret my meaning... I'm not criticizing your understanding... I'm simply not sure whether you are visualizing my growing circumstances and actual locality as they are... and since you don't have your zone or locale included in your visible member information, I couldn't know you are in Indiana, and I still don't really know what part of Indiana or what your individual growing environment is like. It could be quite different from mine.

    Let's start at the beginning, shall we? I've been away from the forum for quite some time, so I haven't yet had the pleasure of getting to know you through your postings. I haven't had much time to gauge your level of gardening, nor get a feel for who you are, your writing style, where you garden, etc... and I don't know how much you've read about me in past threads.

    One thing I've learned in the many decades I've been gardening is never to trust the data on a plant's commercial tag... very often, they contain culture information that's not quite truthful. In order to find what's closer to the truth, one must do some research... and by some research, I mean using several resources to get a feel for what's correct.

    I've seen tags on supposed perennials at certain garden centers and listings in catalogs that contain obviously incorrect data, but a sale is a sale to some companies... and many consumers aren't that concerned with having to repurchase should the plant die. As I mentioned in another thread, the industry is what it is.

    If a plant is rated zone 5, I will often consider it borderline for my individual conditions, and opt instead for something rated at zone 4 or 3, to ensure a better chance of winter survival, and better peace of mind for myself. Our gardens are so packed that I have few protected places left to put things.

    Tender Amaryllids and other unusual bulbed plants are a personal interest that I dabble in... hardy old garden roses are our business, though we're a young business.

    As far as I'm aware, most Hymenocallis are native to more tropical and subtropical areas. Only a very few Hymenocallis grow in Illinois, Hymenocallis caroliniana being one... but only in the very southernmost areas of the state. It's not a bulb I could leave in the ground through winter as I'm much farther north. I don't think I'd want to risk it.

    Crinum is another bulb I'm fairly certain is more common to tropical and subtropical areas. Lycoris, too, generally do not survive winters as far north as I live, with the exception of Lycoris squamigera. I have never seen any of these plants growing in this general area, nor have I heard of anyone leaving them in the ground through winter. Most, to my knowledge, are considered "tender".

    I'm familiar with the name Jim Shields... I've read quite a bit of his writings. In many of those writings, he mentions having bulbs planted in what I would consider protected areas, such as up against walls, greenhouse walls, etc... which may account, in small part, for some of his success. His main success stems from the fact that he's very knowledgeable of the bulbs he grows and what they require.

    He also notes that Lycoris squamigera does not generally set seed, and yet... I had seed pods galore in all of my Lycoris patches. My point being, different gardeners can experience very different results.

    I'm originally from the Illinois/Wisconsin border area, which is a mere 3 or 3 and a half hours away... and many of the plants I couldn't grow there, I am able to grow here with great success.

    There are many factors that contribute to a plant's ability to survive and thrive through the climate conditions of a specific gardening zone. Just because you or Jim Shields can grow some of the bulbs you mention, does not mean I can expect the same success. There are simply too many variables to guarantee such a thing.

    I offered thanks for the bulb list you wrote, which took effort you certainly did not have to expend. I'm still not sure how you would consider that patronizing. When I said thank you, that's exactly what I meant... thank you. :-)