Dale, that's an excellent question, one for which I don't have a definitive answer, but I will share my experience and plan with you. I used WOWs for many years and was very happy with the way they gave me frost protection, and earlier production. Given my average last freeze date of 4/15, I put tomatoes out 3/15 with WOWs and always had great results. A few years ago, as mine began wearing out, after many, many season, I did not replace them. That is because in that time frame WOWs were getting really bad press for a high volume of leaks from manufacturing defects. That coincided with our last freeze coming later and later, usually the first week of May.

In that time frame, of both later freezes and no WOWs, my fruit production has been significantly impacted. WOWs are once again getting favorable press, apparently having resolved the defect issues. I will be trying them again this year. I'll be watching the weather and trying to decide when the dart board says we'll have our last freeze, and putting out some portion of my tomatoes one month prior to that date. It's a gamble, but given the heat and drought we're expected to have again this summer, I'm willing to take it.

With no WOWs, I've been starting my tomato seed indoors the third week of February. Given the last freeze the first week of May, that means many of my seedlings are about 9-10 weeks old, which is older than ideal for me. By then they need bigger pots, more water, are heavier to carry in and out for hardening off, etc.

This year I still intend to start from seed the 2nd or 3rd week of February, but hope to set out younger plants. If the weather conditions look just right, I may put some out the first week of April. In reality, I'll be covered in work through the 18th of April, so it is possible I won't get them out until then. On either end, that gives me the option of plants seedlings that are younger, closer to 6-8 weeks old. And I will still have protection for them for a late freeze.

By the way, I shorten the germination window on many things, including tomatoes and peppers, by germinating them on dampened coffee filters placed in ziploc bags. Keep them puffed up full of air and as soon as they germinate pot them up into potting mix. This also reduces the total number of seeds I use, guessing at the germination percentage, and reduces the anxiety of trying to decide when to toss the pot that is either germinating late or not at all?

Change out the air in the baggies evey couple of days, and keep the baggies in a warm area, between 72 and 80 for ideal germination. Carsons_mimi closes the baggies around a straw, puffs them full, then withdraws the straw before sealing.

I have had great success with the coffee filter method.

Have you noticed earlier fruit production with WoWs? I thought I read somewhere that someone didn't get fruit any earlier.

Just curious, Seedmama, how big do you let the germinated 'sprout' get before you transfer into your potting soil? Do you cover the entire sprout with soil or just bury the root and allow the seed portion stay on top of the soil?

Tigerdawn last year the tomatoes I put in W of W bore fruit. The later tomatoes weren't setting fruit because of the extreme heat. Here last year we had warm weather early and then some lows in the high 30's right when it was time to plant. This delayed planting so those later tomatoes did not have a chance before the heat hit. I don't put all my tomatoes under them but I do have earlier tomatoes with them. The weather is different every year and some year w of w help a lot.

Carsons_mimi, as soon as it begins to resemble a comma I get it in to potting mix. I imprint the potting mix with a chopstick 3/16 inch deep, then scooch mix over them. If you don't pot them with a .little depth, the young seedlings are more prone to flopping.

Thanks seedmama. going to go try this method this year. Do you use the same method for peppers? Last year was horrible for me for peppers. Out of planting 75+, I ended up with 3. Three! sadly, that is not a typo. I guess it all worked out since it was a horrible gardening year anyway, but it was very discouraging.
This seems like it would be more like instant gratification. or - almost instant. ( which I am not opposed to, BTW)
mo

Mo, I use the same method for a lot of things. It's important to place the baggies in a part of the house with the ideal temps for sprouting, especially with peppers. They need to be pretty warm so they don't rot and mold. The cool weather crops will sprout at lower temps. Below I'm going to link to Tom Clothier's germination database so you'll know where I get my temp guidelines. It uses the latin names for plants, so here's the entry for tomtoes

Lycopersicon esculentum , tomato , L. lycopersicum ,Type= an , , sow @ 73�F , 7-14d

There is also an ideal germination chart hanging out there somewhere. Dawn links to it from time to time, so maybe she'll be gracious enough to do it here.

Soon I'll have stashes of baggie "pillows" all over the house. The tomatoes and peppers are placed on a kitchen counter that just seems to have the perfect conditions/temps for sprouting, always hanging around 75 degrees, even though the house isn't that warm. It's the under counter lights. The cabbage and broccoli will be stashed near a northern window. I check the microclimate temps in the house with a $10 thermometer.

Mo, I do like seeing them sprout!

Tigerdawn,
When I used WOWs previously, I always had the earliest tomatoes in the area. However, there are a lot of factors that contribute to that, including DTM and microclimate. Also, as I mentioned above, weather patterns have changed significantly since last I used them. Since it's not really comparing apples to apples, I would be remiss to offer an absolute yes. However, I am confident enough with my prior WOW success to use them once again this year, and make new assessments. I do believe there are gardeners who don't reap the benefits from WOWs, but anecdotally, it seems to me those are gardeners who garden in more consistent climate conditions, without the extreme and sudden temperature swings we have in Oklahoma. They also seem to have a longer season after which there is frost and before which temps hit in the high 90s and 100s.

By the way, I don't subscribe to the theories that red mulch and red WOWs are particularly beneficial. Those studies were flawed. Also, the vegetable dye in the red WOWs deteriorates more quickly than the green ones. In my opinion the red faded ones look worse than the green faded ones, so I'm going to stick with green. I have enough challenges with eyesores as it is.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tom Clothier's germination database

Whaddya know? Dawn was linking to the germination chart in the thread called "Older Seeds" about the same time I was posting to this thread.

Seedmama,

LOL See how much we think alike? Scary, isn't it?

Dawn

One of my big investments this year besides shade cloth is going to be wall o waters. I am curious to try them out.

I never used the coffee filter method to start plants, but that would save a lot of headache in waiting to see what will and will not grow, as well as a lot of wasted potting soil.

Seedmama - what soil do you use? After all the horrible results with miracle grow last year I am finding a new brand this year!

Seedmama, thank you, I think that the coffee filter method might be better. I will do some testing to find a place with the right temp. We tend to keep the house on the cool side for the most part. In fact, I am having a very slow fermentation on a batch of wine that is dragging along like never before. I have since put 2 seed heat mats around the carboy end to end to see if I can get the temp up and give it a push.
thanks again'
mo

Ez, I swear by ProMix. Last year I ran short and picked up a bag of Miracle Gro. It was okay, but I wasn't crazy about it. I just checked it, and it smells musty and moldy, so no way will I pot up seedlings into it this year. Hope to get my hands on some more ProMix. If not, I have mixed up my own using Premier Spaghnum Peat Moss, and other "stuff" that struck my fancy.

I will look for some ProMix, after the stunted plants of last year I am not taking my chances this year!

Thanks!

I can't buy Pro-Mix here anymore. The greenhouses in this area are willing to sell me bags of what they use and that is what I've been using the last few years. I will be using a Ball mix to pot all of my transplants too and to start many in. The germination mix I have is a Berger mix and you have to pot up within the first 7-10 days or a plant will get stunted. It has no nutrients. I don't use it much unless I can't get germination in the potting mix. You can feed them with a blue water or fish foliar spray and wait a little longer. I have enough on hand till I start potting up the tomatoes and peppers. Jay

Jay - that makes sense then why mine are always smaller than what I expect them to be or see that others have at that time. I thought we wait until the plant has 2 true leaves?

Ezzirah I usually try to wait till 2 true leaves and sometimes a big longer. But after my problems the last few years I've started talking to and listening to the greenhouse/transplant growers. I was in one of the larger operations late last Feb picking up potting mix and the owners took me back into their germinating/potting house which is fairly large. They were potting up tomato plants 5-7 days old. They use plug trays which they say most germinating mixes are mixed for. In their opinion you should pot up before 2 weeks at the max and better at the 5-10 day period. The plant will live and grow on the nutrients in the seed for a short time. And that time frame is somewhat debatable. They say due to work load at times they have went over 10 days and they can tell a difference in the size of the plants for a while. So on any plants I germinate in the germinating mix I will either feed after 5-7 days or pot up. Jay

Jay - Interesting! Thank you for that, I am certainly changing tactics this year!

Essirah many times if a person will read the label it will tell them what a mix is suited for. I'm good at reading the label after I've had issues. Which was the case with the Berger BM-2 mix. It states "This series is distinctively formulated for seed germination in plugs, trays, or floating systems." And the greenhouse owner who I bought it from didn't think about how I would use it. As the one owner said. The main reason they use a light, fine germination mix is first it is easier to use in the plug trays than a course mix and there are a few seeds that need a light mix for good germination rates. So they use a germination mix mainly but pot up early. A few germination mixes in the past have contained some nutrients. But most have removed them as many plant types require a different mix. Easier to basically make a sterile mix than to have numerous specialized germination mixes which a few companies did in the past. Now when you pot up you can use the correct mix for that plant type. I've found that you can use the normal potting mix which is coarser and get good germination rates on most of the veggies I grow. I'm planning on starting several flower varieties this year. I may use the germination mix on some of them as I need to use it up anyway. Then will pot up early or feed them. Again many products are good if used as intended. In my case I didn't read the labels and tried to use it the same way I did a previous discontinued mix which had nutrients. Jay

I don't use Wall of Water devices because our land slopes too much and when you try to fill up the WOWs, once they're about 1/3 of the way full, they fall over and roll downhill.

However, if I did use them, I'd use Gordon Graham's method. For those of you unfamiliar with Gordon Graham, he is the gentleman from Edmond, OK, who holds the record for raising the world's largest tomato, a record he has held a long time. And, because I know someone will ask, it was the "Delicious" variety and it weighed 7 lbs. and 12 oz. He grew it in 1986.

Mr. Graham once wrote a little booklet telling how to grow a giant tomato, and Marvin Meisner reprinted the booklet in his Giant Tomato book (which is a really great book, even if you are not trying to grow a giant tomato). In the booklet, he described how he used WOWs to get some plants off to a head start. He also said that even though WOWs were supposed to keep the tomato plants warm down to about 19 degrees, he'd had them keep tomato plants from freezing when temps went down to as low as 9 degrees, although for extra protection he had wrapped the tomato cage in Reemay floating row cover material to help keep the plants warm when temps dropped colder than that 19 degrees.

As best as I can remember, Mr. Graham said he put together a teepee of three 1" x 1" stakes. (These used to be sold in bundles in nurseries as tomato stakes. I don't know if they still are.) The teepee was sized to fit just inside the center of the WOW so it would keep the WOW from collapsing or falling onto the plant. Then he put the WOW over the teepee and filled it. He left the teepee so the WOW wouldn't tip over in the wind. He then put the cage around the WOW/tomato plant. I would imagine it was not especially easy to remove the WOW when the weather warmed up and it was no longer needed, and I assume he had help or he had to remove the cage in order to remove the WOW.

The other thing he did that I found interesting was that he would stack a second WOW on top of the first WOW once the plant was as tall as the first WOW. I don't know if he routinely did that with every plant, or if he is only referring to his then-worlld champion plant (a Sweet 100 plant that was 53.5 feet long) or the plant that grew the World Record tomato. Once the second WOW was filled, if snow or sleet was expected, he'd roll up a ball of Reemay frost blanket material and sort of stuff it into the top of the WOW to keep the precipitation from reaching the plant. (Remember, he'd already wrapped the tomato cage in Reemay.)

He never mentioned in his booklet exactly when he put all his tomato plants in the ground, but with the World Record tomato one, he wanted to get an early start, so he put the tomato plant in the ground a full two months prior to his average frost date, so that would have been in February. In his booklet he even drew an illustration showing the two stacked WOWs inside a tomato cage.

Hope this info helps.

Dawn