Thanks, Butch. That's some good information. Some hosta cultivars which I've planted have performed terribly, or even died. After a few years, I've dug them up, still barely surviving, and planted them in a different spot, where they've flourished and look great. The same is true for many other perennials. For example, I tried many different spots for my variegated arundo donax before I found one where it flourished instead of dying out. So sometimes the trick is just to figure out what plants grow well in a particular location, and then concentrate on those. Don't get frustrated if you can't grow everything you try or if something looks bad. Just grow what you can successfully and what looks great, and maximize your use of that. People who stop in to see your garden will be wowed by it! Don

Variegated Arundo donax
{{gwi:940761}}

Don, Variegated Arundo donax can be a noxious weed in some places and I live in the middle of farm country so I took mine and put it in the middle of one of my ponds roots and all no pot and it grew like a weed. I did not intend for it to get along these farm roads or in my neighbors fields.

I'm offering that it may be a plant that needs water like a hosta, what is your experience re water.

This is a terrible photo but you man be able to see it coming up just to the left of the maple tree in the pond. Can't get a better photo because it died because the pump broke in the pond. Below is the photo I cropped it from.

{{gwi:1067427}}

i dont know how this fits the topic... but to me ..... it is an issue of northern BRED vs southern BRED ....

i swear some of the stuff that lakeside and tony avent put out.. just wont grow up here ...

and more importantly .. a lot of stuff that thrives in the great white north.. simply wont grown down south ...

as butch says.. its all in the genes .... and some genes just cant cope in one extreme or the other ....

i bet someone in AL would spend a small fortune buying and rebuying GExpectations trying to grow it down there.. and will just never succeed ...

I THINK .... a lot of the southern breeders.. use late flowering stock .. that can barely make it to flower before frost up here.. let alone the additional 90 days to pod ripening .... perhaps those plants need a longer growing season to thrive... and they just cant get it up here in god's country ...

go figure

ken

Maybe I am just being overly cautious...or paranoid...but I swear that places which buy from northern growers have fewer diseased plants than those who buy from northern growers. I see less of stuff like southern blight and HVX....in fact none, in stores who buy from a minnesota grower vs those like Lowes who buy from southern growers.
Linda C

I THINK .... a lot of the southern breeders.. use late flowering stock .. that can barely make it to flower before frost up here."
Ken

This goes back to what you said about what breeders think about plants they are working with, because of the size of the gene pool they don't know as much as they think about the end result.

Understand that they do know more than I do about the genetics but not as much as they think, "I think".

Now, we are back to; we have to try GExpectations in our gardens in our conditions so we finally have some idea about whether we can grow it. Because it is so special if you get a good one or manage to grow it well.

Lets take H.'Stitch in Time', it is so cute a bunch of us are going to try it and finally collectively learn about that particular cultivar. Then, we may speak to its growth as we do GExpectations now. IÂm predicting that SIT will be like Tattoo, cute but it will wear us out trying to grow it, so of course I got 2 divisions in one pot from AAHostas to start the process.

BIG BUTT, Ken this doesn't disagree with what you say, Tony for example actually works to have cultivars that do well in the south. Mary may have never crossed with a particular plant because it would not have performed for her if she lived in MI.

This doesn't exactly address where a particular cultivar is grown for resale, we are now talking about particular cultivars. 2-3 years ago I asked if people would like to report on individual cultivars with their location, this would be a really long term project but worthwhile in the end IMHO. IMHO, I love this netshorthand, I AM not humble but when I say it some will think I really am humble IMHO.

I just had somewhat related discussion with Bob Griesbach, well known lily hybridizer-"Leslie Woodriff" is one of his many creations, who has 5 acres of lilies/daylilies hybridizing program in WI. He is in his 80 and still does all work alone.
Mr. Griesbach mentioned that majority of daylilies are now bred in Florida and for last few years many people from northern states were surprised by how poorly new hybrids were performing. Of course, people would blame themselves because we all know that daylilies are tough and will grow anywhere, right?
To compare his lily breeding program-germinated trays of seedlings are kept in greenhouse over first summer- while it is ventilated, it does get hot there, so seedlings that not heat tolerant get eliminated first. He then plants them in the fall outside- NEVER waters them, no mulch or other protection is given. It eliminates cold intolerant ones.
Out of 100 seedlings in one tray 25-30 will survive, since they all planted together- they become crowded and eventually strongest ones will dominate. After few years final selection is made.
It does make you wonder, how through and well conditioned breeding program has to be...

Daylily is breeding far greater numbers than hosta and when grown and breed in Florida they never see the same winter dormancy as Wi. If a specific daylily is know to be hardy and grown in Fl or grown in Wi then the genes are not changed on that cultivar.

Daylilies are a bit like apples and oranges. I'm not talking about breeding, I'm refering to growing known culitivars.

Lowe's gets a lot of their hosta from one grower, if that grower has a problem then the problem is spread wide but that doesn't address the over all question of whether the specific cultivar H.'Paul's Glory' is better from the north than the south.

"A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still."
If you feel better about no grown then you are not going to change your mind.

Who cares? Obvliously I do since I asked this question on another thread. I thought it was reasonable to think that a hosta that was grown at a nursery, say in Atlanta, and shipped a short distance to Alabama might do better than one that was purchased up north and took four days to get to my house.

i swear some of the stuff that lakeside and tony avent put out.. just wont grow up here
ken
If it makes you feel better, they won't grow down here, either!
Of more than 50 Lakeside Hostas(15+ different cultivars)purchased, I have only ONE still surviving(operative word), Black Satin, and it's about the same size, possibly smaller, than when planted 10 years ago.
Have had similar luck with TA's named hybrids & selections, with one exception, Potomac Pride (Blue Umbrellas x yingeri Treasure Island). Both yingeri & Treasure Island do well here and have some interesting seedlings from Treasure Island.
Blue Umbrellas does not grow well here, neither does it's parents, Tokudama x Elegans.
My 2¢
Rb

I just want to know where i can get variegated arundo donax around here i have been looking for a while now??

and how tall does it get?

my green arundo gets about 18-20' with a little water and fert. - and this is a plant that i can say without a doubt will grow taller with fert.

Well, I always try to put plants with plantagenia heritage in more sun, ones with sieboldiana heritage in more shade, but of course that doesn't always work out, but I do try to do that.

I always figure a Hosta looks like carp all season--the year you planted it anyway, no matter where it came from. So, I just make sure I water, water, water, and then wait for subsequent years to see how it holds up.

I'm not one of those folks that moves them around. Sometimes a little patience can go a long way.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned my variegated arundo donax, since the discussion was about northern grown vs. southern grown hostas, and the fact that the location or environment in which a hosta is grown does not alter its genetic make-up.

To answer greenguy, you'll have to look around and find someone who has a big clump...it will be much easier to start if you get a sizeable root mass to begin with. If you can't find it local, then you'll need to order it from a supplier like Kurt Bluemel, Inc. (http://www.kurtbluemel.com/) or other on-line source.

As far as being aggressive, the plain green arundo is much more vigorous and grows like crazy (mine will be 22-24 ft. tall this Fall). It's considered a pest weed in many southern States and California. However, the variegated is not nearly as invasive and is very well-behaved here in Michigan. I recommend planting it in very rich, deep topsoil, full sun, all the water you can give it; fertilize it in Spring with manure.
Don

I thought it was reasonable to think that a hosta that was grown at a nursery, say in Atlanta, and shipped a short distance to Alabama might do better than one that was purchased up north and took four days to get to my house."
jbranch

I saw your original question and this thread is not addressing your question or thought at all. I went to some trouble to reduce my point to one issue; genetics only. Genetics of a specific cultivar does not change whether grown in the north or south. A good thread would be which cultivars do well zone by zone.

so you are simply talking active stock .. buying from across the country ...

i suggest its irrellevant in plants that go fully dormant ... hosta... trees ... shrubs.. etc ....

however.. in regard to conifers .. and other grafted material .... i NEVER buy from southern producers ... its like the first time a southern grown conifer.. sees what a MI winter is all about.. they just say the heck with it.. and die ... its like the tissue has never been hardened off properly ....

i learned this lesson when i collected rose bushes... and discovered.. the root stocks differ according to where the plants are to be grown .. jackson perkins in OR uses stock for the entire US.. but there are some FL growers who use special root stock for the south ...

ken

i suggest its irrellevant in plants that go fully dormant ... hosta... trees ... shrubs.. etc .
ken

Of course you get the point exactly.

Now rose or other graphs must have new root stock all the time, J&P had a large rose growing operation in New Mexico so the stock could evolve to not being hardy, same is true of Texas roses or even conifer graphing in Oregon. A seedling grown for graphing on in Oregon may never indicate it isn't hardy until Ken puts it in the ground in MI.

Again all this is different from TC plants shipped to WI and grown on and others shipped to AL and grown on have very nearly the same genes so it doesn't matter where you buy from North or South.

hey.. even a blind squirrel .. sooner or later.. finds a nut.. lol

but even further about grafting... many conifers can be grafted on various root stock ... and each rootstock may have its own zone .... differing from the plant grafted above... the graft might be fully zone appropriate.. but the roots not ....

and to come full circle regarding hosta .... the genes are the genes.. and it doesnt matter where it was TC'd or grown on.. or divided .... whether or not it thrives in your garden is not a function of that process

ken

whether or not it thrives in your garden is not a function of that process
Ken

Ken, you always hit the bottom line, all that matters is your conditions in the end or those you create.

i guess its a function of my training.. establish the known facts [actually reading them all ... lol] and once you have the facts straight... then apply the Law .... eh

BTW ... same goes in early spring... ordering from the south [any higher zone].. and shipping to the cold white north ... nothing like a good frost freeze ... hitting a shade house grown, fully leafed out hosta ... to set it way back.. or to kill it ... but if you wait for delivery ... you might not get what you want.. so you end up nursing them in the garage.. in pots.. until the weather equalizes ...

ken

establish the known facts [actually reading them all ... lol]"
Ken

And, don't testify to facts not in evidence! Unless it is the only way to win your case then try to see if you can get away with it, "best evidence" you know! LOL

OK,I've read all the Nortern grown-Southern grown items in this post. To make all of ya'll in the north feel good-YES you can grow hostas better up north than we here in the south. I learned that while visiting Janice's garden in Ohio. Am I going to stop growing hostas because of that? NO! It is like comparing apples to oranges! Hostas start coming up in the spring here in NC in March,while the rest of you up north are still dreaming about last year's garden! In fact montana-Aureomarginata,starts to come up in late Feb.,so I have to cover it until the last freeze is gone. We have 1 1/2 to 2 month's longer growing season here in the south. Right now,it is the dog days of summer,and hostas are starting to look ratty,but they still don't go away until October. What I'm trying to say is,hostas will grow relatively anywhere,except extreme southern locations,but that doesn't mean everyone's garden will look the same! For what it's worth,that's MHO!! Phil