I'll try to help Ellen...but keep in mind I've just started winter sowing for the first time and I'm working on my FOURTH and FIFTH seed orders! Hehe

I've noticed that some seeds are a bit pricey. But overall, seeds are relatively cheap and you get a whole packet for much less than the price of one potted plant at the nursery. And you need to factor in the time and gas spent to get there (will that stop me from visiting nurseries - probably not). I am spending much less on seeds than I've spent in previous years for plants in pots. And it's so much fun to watch the babies grow up.

I am very interested in growing the species for many native plants. You can't get most of these at the nursery. I love Prairie Moon nursery, am planning a 2nd order with them. I want to try almost every species that grows in med-dry conditions that will tolerate a bit of shade. I'm now marking the list with "must have this year" and "wait till '09?".

Okay, hope I was helpful...:)

ThatÂs funny! How on earth could a bunch of garden addicts NOT justify soothing a gardenerÂs soul in January? I know I canÂt. This time of the year seed catalogs are the most important mail! Can you imagine what Earth would look like if every world citizen had your passion about making things grow? ThatÂs the world I want. Take it from someone who harvests morning glory seeds from her deck every year then plants them around the neighbors mailboxes as well as her own. You did the right thing!

Good for you!

Jane

P.S. I noticed a monarch on your website. Last summer I raised them for the first time and had 11 of 11 successful "births" from egg to flight. Do you know anything about milkweed seeds?

Dear Ellen,

Don't feel bad; no need to feel guilty.

This past week I bought seeds at Walgreens! Ten cents a packet:

Cleome and Cosmos (which I don't need because they reseed like crazy in our garden; but I love them).

Green Peppers (because my grandson said it was his favorite vegetable).

Mammoth Russian Sunflowers, Radishes, Pickling Cucumbers, Green Beans, and Zucchini (just because...*:-)

Of course, I have tons of seed that I've saved (well, maybe not "tons"); and then, there are all the packets that never got planted from years past that I recently found.

Maybe a seed savers/buyers anonymous is in order?

~ Hilda

Ellen...have you seen the post on the Perennials forum on what some GW members have ordered? You will feel better after you read it. :-)

I plan on ordering something new for the garden every year. It is the nature of a gardener. Plants are your stock and trade. How do you create a garden without them. [g] The rub comes when you have to fit your new acquisitions into your budget. I don't like to spend a lot because there is always something more important to spend on. I also have a hard time with the increases in seeds/plants/garden related items that seem to have skyrocketed over what seems to me a short period of time. So that keeps my desire to spend subdued.

Encouraged by someone at a NE plant swap, I started winter sowing three years ago. That has helped me a lot to be able to have a lot of new plants and feel like I am staying in my budget. I also ended up trading on the seed trade forum and I had so many seeds, I still have a ton and wouldn't have to look much further than my seed box and a large bag of potting soil, to have a ton of seedlings any spring. It gives you a little more freedom, to try a plant and if it doesn't work, you don't feel so bad, if it didn't cost you more than your effort and a few traded seeds. Plus I find it a lot of fun.

I haven't ordered from Park's, but I did catch the T&M 50% off sale, some time in late summer, I think. That was nice. Plus they have a sister company that they send their leftover seeds to, Valueseeds. Very inexpensive and they are T&M seeds. Shipping on any size order is only $2. this year. It was $1. last year. You have to catch them though, just after they have gone through their inventory, or other different points when they are adding to the inventory at Value Seeds, because new items can go fast.

The Fragrant Path has low cost shipping and most packets are around $2.

You could always ask for gift certificates to your favorite catalog companies for Christmas and that might make you feel better.

Nice list of seed...take some photos next summer and would be interested to see how you arrange everything.

:-)
pm2

I knew I would find full support here :-)

Thanks Terrene..I can definitely justify it on cost means...I need lots and lots of plants to fill my beds and seed propagation is probably the only way to do it without breaking the bank..

I just don't want to end up with way too many seedlings in June to care for, with too little time....I've done the winter sowing thing for many years but this year hubby has declared the patio a "winter sowing container free zone" so I just need to limit my seed growing to what I can grow indoors...

Coronum..yes I've really got into planting various milkweeds as host plants for monarch butterfly caterpillars, with total success! 2 years ago I had a large pot on the patio with tropical (red) milkweed which I grew from seed and I had monarch caterpillars hatch on them:

And I also grew Swamp Milkweed (Asclepias incarnata) from seeds I bought at New England Wild Flower Society and it truly was a butterfly magnet...not only monarchs but fritillaries too:
{{gwi:1056382}}

Nice to see someone got their Parks seed catalog. I just called to see where mine was. I always order from Parks, Burpee, Jung, and usually a new one or two. This year my new one is territorial.

So Far I have:

Impatiens: blitz mix, stardust mix
New Guinea: impatiens tainforest mix
Coleus: picture perfect rose
Marigold: lemon spun
Zinnia: profusion orange, tetra
Begonia: red dragon wing
Rudbeckia: prairie sun
Morning glory: heavely blue

Still looking for a non-mix periwinkle (vinca)

I have beoome into a annual flower nut. I have built multi-tiered seed starting stands. Three in total. They have 3 shelves and are 48" wide x 20" deep x 60" high.

I also have a portable greenhouse for april and may use.

Boxcar Grower..nice list, you should have a beautiful garden this year! I love the Profusion Zinnia..I started out with orange a few years ago and liked them so much that I grew many other colors from seed (apricot, white, cherry etc). I save seeds from them every year because I will always find spots for them in my garden. So pretty as a low filler and butterflies love them.

This year I'm not starting veggies from seeds. Last year I carefully cultivated several varieties of tomatoes etc from March onwards. On Memorial Day my husband went to the local farmstand and bought a few six-packs of vegetable seedlings for under $4, and put his in the ground. They were much bigger than my seedlings and bore fruit earlier. Mine eventually got caught up and probably yielded more, but this year I would like tomatoes earlier than mid August!!

ellen s, I would love to hear more about your milk weed for butterflys, I grow milk weed in the back yard I all so grow joe pye weed, mullin(sp?) but don't have many butterflys coming to my yard. what can I grow to get more butterflys
Thanks

Bear

Lovely pictures Ellen. Your dark pink Ascelpias incarnata is so pretty - I have some that are lighter pink than yours and also 'Ice ballet'. Saw the first Monarch caterpillar on the Ice Ballet this past summer.

If your H doesn't want winter sowing containers on the deck, maybe you can put them elsewhere in the yard? I've sowed 16 containers so far and they are out in the backyard.

Boxcar, I love annuals too. The 3rd seed order I placed this winter was from Parks online. There were some annuals I just HAD to have -

Rudbeckia - Prarie Sun and Cappucino
Zinnia - Profusion Apricot, 'Red Spider' and 'Persian Carpet'
Snapdragons - Black Prince
Alyssum - Pastel Carpet
Phlox drummondi - 'Promise Rose'

Ellen, does your Zinnia profusion acually seed true to the color of its parent?

I would also love to raise a few butterflies this coming summer. I've got Asclepias incarnata and tuberosa in the garden already, and wintersown tuberosa, syriaca, and variegata so far (got the variegata seeds from a nice GWer). I'm planning to purchase A. purpurescens from Prairie Moon nursery and winter sow those too.

Bear, is your garden sunny? Butterflies like warm areas and they can't fly when they are cold..so try to give them habitat where your garden is warmest. They love to bask in the sun too. Plant nectar plants (your milkweed is great). I grow a tropical milkweed from seed called Red Milkweed which is a showy annual that you can grow in a pot or in a sunny area of your garden. I have had Monarch caterpillars hatch right on that, 5' from our porch chairs..

For butterflies, plants lots of different kinds and colors of flowering plants (zinnia, bee balm, cosmos, phlox, coneflower, asters, verbena bonariensis and rudbeckia are all easy to grow butterfly plants). Single flowers are better for butterflies than the big frilly double blooms which make it hard for the butterfly to access the nectar inside the flower. Also, include host plants for the caterpillars, to give them foliage to eat while they grow into butterflies. Don't use pesticides in or near your butterfly garden! They will kill the caterpillars too. If the caterpillar is a juvenile butterfly such as Monarch, Fritillary or Swallowtail, they will eat some foliage but hopefully not enough to damage your plants. Plant LOTS so you don't get upset about some chewed leaves. Herbs are also really attractive to butterflies - dill is an easy herb to grow from seed and the Swallowtail butterfly caterpillars will probably be all over it. I usually have way too much dill growing that I don't really notice the damage...

yeah. last year I got rudbeckia "prairie sun" as a free bonus seeds form parks. They were outstanding plants. Blooms lasted a few weeks. Very sturdy plants requiring very little staking.

This year I am mixing up the annual garden. I usually start ivy geraniums and petunias from seed. The geraniums take along time to get really going and I am wore out of constantly deadheading and pruning the petunias to keep them looking good. Plus the petunias need so much Iron they look chlorotic from time to time.

Terrene..thanks for the tactical advice, I think I may just sneak some containers into other areas of the yard where he is not likely to find them :-)

My Zinnia Profusion Orange did come true from seed. This year I have seeds saved from last year's Park Profusion mix so I don't know yet whether the other Profusions also come true..

Phlox drumondii - nice choice...love it in pots where you can sink your nose into the flowers. It is kind of trailing in nature so I tend to let them ramble around the edges of pots rather than using them in the garden.

Let us know how the Persian Carpet zinnia works out! I have admired that - it looks a little like a Blanket Flower which I can't seem to grow here (too damp).

By the way Bear - the tropical milkweed that I grow for monarchs is Asclepias currassavica. They are easy to grow either indoors or via winter sowing. Because they're tropical in origin, you might want to hold off winter sowing them until later in the season, ie March. That's my experience, anyway.

Boxcar, I am completely enchanted by the pictures I see of Rudbeckia 'Prairie Sun' and some of the other cultivars. Can't wait to grow it. Do you think yours will come back this year or reseed?

Ellen, I'm planning on winter-sowing Bronze Fennel after trying direct sowing last year but it didn't grow. Same with the Phlox drummondi the year before! I'm hoping to have more success with winter-sowing than direct sowing, although Zinnias & Tithonia work well that way. Will Dill and Fennel grow in partial sun do you know? I don't have a lot of full sun in the yard.

I would love to grow Asclepias currassavica - do you have any seeds to trade? Prairie Moon, Parks, and Easy Wildflowers didn't sell it, and it's not worth it to place a seed order for 1 or 2 packets.

Here is a picture of Monarch adult and caterpillar on the Swamp milkweed (Asclepias incarnata) -

{{gwi:1056383}}

{{gwi:540153}}

Terrene, I do have seeds to trade for A. curassavica, email me through my member page...

Beautiful monarch pic - that looks like a nice butterfly garden!

I have grown Prairie Sun from seed - easy and I agree that it's a beautiful flower. The species Rudbeckia does so well here that I don't bother with the cultivars much any more, though.

Herbs do prefer full sun - you could always try in partial shade, dill is so easy from seed that it's worth a try!

I feel a new hobby coming on....I got so bored with cooking after 30 years, I've teaching myself some Asian recipes: char sui, chicken cashews, greens, 'singpore noodles' tonight I started "Pho" a vietnamese noodle dish. It is fun but very labor intensive, dirty-dish laden, and stove centered. (Yes I am getting to the gardening part)I've thought about winter sowing, but never been motivated. Last year I realized I was tired of spending so much money on plants (trees excepted) but I want those butterflies!!Now that I think of it, I bet the flowers from seed bug is related to being a new beekeeper, and wanting as many bee-flowers as possible, and those are not the 8-10 dollar a pot perennials in the nurseries. I hope you are all interested in my analyzing my associations. I think I better numb out for an hour with whatever episode of Law and Odor is on.

Idabean..my analysis of your situation is that you need to get over to the Winter Sowing forum immediately and get started!!

Go!

I finally received my parks catalog and I just ordered the following:

Vinca Cora hybrid: apricot, white, burgundy
Impatiens: sunrise, peach butterfly, and mosiac hybrid
Zinnia: swizzle cherry & ivory
Zinnia: Big red
Browallia.

Should be a quick February and March getting all of these growing. I usually move operation to the greenhouse in early April

knowing there are people in the world who collect ceramic unicorns, one's harmless little seed-starting habits should not be a source of shame.

:0)

Thank you for enabling me :-)

I ordered my veggie seeds for the year from Seed Savers' Exchange the other day. They were a tad bit more expensive than they would have been elsewhere, but I really want to try heirloom varieties this year. The hard part is going to be practicing self-restraint and not planting the tomatoes as soon as they get here.

I haven't ordered yet - but after printing out the order I would place at -------'s I went to Ocean State Job Lot and picked up what I could at 40% off. It's a bit early to think about veggies right now but a girls gotta dream, right? They had quite a few of the heirloon varieties left. Son came with me and was amazed at what I saved. And at what I had left to buy! Where does he thinks the seeds come from? Will look for more deals online. But my question is, where can I find the best deal on fruiting shrubs? ie: gooseberry or currants?