mixed mesages on soil amending

robin1916

12 years ago

Greetings!

I have finally gone out to the nursery on Rea Road, talked to Nikki, the hosta expert lady (VERY knowledgeable!), and purchased a bunch of plants. She gave me great "design" advise. First my bed was just waaaaay too big and I needed to subdivide it even further. Second I misunderstood the spacing for planting and had planted my current hostas too far apart and they would never fill in. Drat, I simply HAVE to buy more hostas! I came home with enough plants to start planting in one of the new "subdivided" beds.

I am going to start planting the plants (hosta, heuchera, astlibe, and several fern) next week. This bed is under one of the dreaded sweet gum trees. I have been reading mixed messages on what to do.

Camp #1 says to dig a wide hole, amend the soil to give the new plant a running start, plant the plant, and water profusely.

Camp #2 says dig a hole, DON'T amend the soil, plant the plant and water profusely. Their reasoning behind not amending the soil is that it will make an area that the tree's roots will seek out and steal water from the new plant.

I just can't remember what I did several years ago, but I want to repeat it because the plants are doing great.

Which camp do I follow and why?

Robin

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Comments (12)

ctopher_mi
12 years ago
Hi,

I say that both camps are wrong. The best thing to do is amend your entire bed evenly, work the soil evenly, leaving it light and fluffy since hostas and perennials love oxygen at the root zone, plant and mulch evenly over the whole bed, then water deeply when the soil surface is dry.

If tree roots are going to invade they will do it no matter what, there is really no stopping them. But when you amend over the whole area it will improve all the soil and create the best conditions overall. Just amending the planting hole won't help in the long run as the plant roots will reach out to unamended soil or the roots won't reach out at all if they are too cushy in their amended hole.

Not amending at all is the worst thing you can do - hostas are not native plants so will never adapt to whatever native conditions you have. Give them what they want - good loamy, well-draining, airy soil that is rich in organic matter and then water deeply. And mulch really helps so much that even if you get slugs the hostas will grow so much better, and slugs will seek out moist areas with or without mulch.

Hope that helps.

Chris
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hosta_freak
12 years ago
Well,I'm in NC also,and what I have found over the years is,whenever I made nice fluffy soil by amending,the voles loved it because they could dig to the roots of the hosta and eat away. What I do is dig the hole right in the native soil,and plant,without amending the soil and mulch, water in,and walk away. But that's what works for me. I have a woodland garden. Phil
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kimcoco
12 years ago
I understand your dilemma. I've been in the same boat.

We have clayish soil maybe 18 inches deep.

Plants I always amend are rhododendrons and astilbe (in drier areas of my yard)- I add peat moss to help retain moisture, and my plants have done wonderfully. Another plant that I'd amend for is Ligularia The Rocket since it likes a lot of moisture. There are varying opinions, but this is what works for me.

Aside from that I have hostas that have done well in both sun and shade on my property, without amendments other than adding a layer of composted manure each spring. I live in the city on a very small lot.

For hostas, I wouldn't worry too much.
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robin1916
Original Author
12 years ago
Chris, I just don't see how in this area of the yard I can dig it all up with the trees. I will either ruin any tiller I try to use. If I try to do it by hand, it will take forever. There's another section of the yard that when I get to it I might be able to do that. But ...

... now I have to worry about voles? Phil do you have clay soil? If you do, do you do ANYTHING to make it drain better? I just remembered I had put something on my list of things to consider using. It was this product that you line the hole with to protect the plants from critters from under. Guess I better go read about that again.

This is why my yard still looks like a pit. I keep getting waylaid with details. Hope these plants don't die before I get them in the ground. Sigh.

Robin
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ctopher_mi
12 years ago
I probably should have mentioned that if you have a woodland setting already then the soil would be just fine.

And you can consider what Kimcoco does, and simply spread the amendments over the surface. That's a great way to do it too.
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Mary4b
12 years ago
In 1998, I dug up sod, only to discover clay and more clay. I dug and re-dug, amending with compost, humus, gypsum, expensive clay-breaking amenders, etc. After amending, there was still a ton of clay and for the next 5 years, it was still hard to dig and plant in that garden. Each time I re-planted an area, I amended some more in that area and mulched again. The plants that were the most successful, were the hostas...they grew big and seemed undaunted by the clay. Today, that garden is loamy and wonderful. The initial time plus years of mulching on top have finally paid dividends. The hostas still do well...I just redid that bed 10 days ago, it was a joy to work in the soil, remembering the frustration and back-breaking work in the beginning.
Ironically, I think the hostas handled the early phases of the garden just as well as they handle it now. I'm not even sure that it was my initial labor that made it successful. Clay has a lot of minerals, and also holds moisture, so it's not the end of the world for hostas.
Taking everything into account, Phil is from your area, by planting in what you have and top-dressing and mulching for years, you would be leaving the bed all the same and over the years, it should get more and more loamy if you keep adding more and more top-dressing.

I found this thread about growing in clay soil in NC.

Here is a link that might be useful: Clay Soil
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beverlymnz4
12 years ago
I too have problems with voles and squirrels digging in nicely amended soil. Voles eat roots and squirrels like to dig up new plants and leave them lying about. When I could not amend the whole bed, I planted in the native soil top dressed with compost. I plan top dress the whole bed with some compost in spring, when I am able. I have clay, although I have seen stickier soil. I can't say how well it works yet. The bed is only one year old.
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hosta_freak
12 years ago
Robin,yes that is the only soil we have here;red clay. But,my soil is amended by nature every year by falling leaves,and believe me,we have lots of leaves in my woods. The soil drains very well,and anything planted in it,will grow very well. Take a look at my previous posts to see pics of my gardens. Phil
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robin1916
Original Author
12 years ago
I just had the BEST surprise in my garden!

Dh said, "Let's just see how hard it will be to dig up and, if it is too hard, we'll just rent a big tiller." He got a shovel out of the garage, we walked around and he prepared to dig up a shovelful. The shovel went in like a knife in butter! "What?!? How can that be?" He said, "Guess your worms are already working."

I used to have a worm bin. A month or more ago I thought, "They don't know if they're in a bin or in a garden. I'm adding some worms." So I added about 100 red worms for aeration. Haven't added the red wigglers yet because our bait shop doesn't carry them anymore. I'm telling you the last time I dug in this soil, it was like digging in concrete! I thought the worms can't hurt and maybe in a year or two, if I keep doing this, they'll actually do some good as long as the birds don't discover the new "all you can eat" buffet in our front yard.

Coincidence? Maybe? I think I am going to do another experiment in another untouched part of the yard and see.

Robin
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gardenfanatic2003
12 years ago
Red wigglers aren't soil burrowing worms, they're composting worms. Composting worms stay above soil and eat leaf litter and manure and such, if your winters aren't too harsh for them to survive. Nightcrawlers on the other hand, make large tunnels several feet deep into the soil and aerate the soil. They live year-round because they can burrow down below the freeze line and go dormant for the winter.

Red wigglers won't aerate your soil. They'll eat dead vegetation, and if it runs out or the weather gets cold, they'll croak.

Deanna
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robin1916
Original Author
12 years ago
Hi Deanna!

Sorry I guess I was confusing. I didn't add red wigglers I added red worms. Not sure if red worm is just another name for earthworms, if they are related or just do exactly the same thing, but that is what they do ... aeration. I've also heard them called super worms. All I know is every year I have tried to dig in that garden, it was rock hard. Now it isn't. Still I have my doubts and am going to do another test somewhere else.

Oh yes, I know all about red wigglers and what they do. Amazing little things aren't they? They can turn a bin of leaves and banana peels into gold super fast! If they freeze over winter, I'll just add some again the next spring. (Shhh, don't tell PETA. ) We have sooooo many leaves, there is just too much to keep up with even with running over them with the lawn mower. We'd have to build a warehouse to house as many bins as I'd need to compost them all in worm bins. Dh is against an actual compost pile (long boring story) and I just can't bring myself to let him bag the leaves. So next best thing is just add them to the leaves instead of adding the leaves to the worms.

Robin
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hosta_freak
12 years ago
As long as we're talking earthworms,I have lots of them in my soil. I can't hardly dig a hole for a new hosta.without finding a few of them. So,it sounds like you are on your way to some great planting soil! Phil
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mixed mesages on soil amending

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