I think the first one is a Painted Lady (Vanessa cadui) because it lacks the little glowing white spot inside an orange panel near the tip of the forewing. On the underside, V. cadui have four eyespots, while the American Painted Lady (V.virginiensis) has two. Could the copper be an American Copper? We get lots of them up here. Beautiful butterflies.

njiris, wish my Lady Friend was the same color as yours! I have moved LF to another bed---closer to said red brick house which she matches perfectly!---with some light yellows and gold surrounding her. Wish I had Copper Classic or something similar cause I think that color would also compliment her. She clashed something awful with my Knockout roses and pink and lavender/purple iris bed!

I noticed the difference in the leaves, too. They are a little crinkly since it is a hybrid rugosa, but not as crinkly as some. Mine is not a good example of BS. Too dry for that here. We get almost all our rain early spring before roses leaf out, a tad in the fall, and that's it. Therese Bugnet has an impressive flush in the spring then blooms pretty well the rest of the season. Mine is maybe 20ish years old. Good luck with your search. If you watch it through spring and summer, you'll know more about it's habits. I'm very curious to know, too.

Im sorry, raven. She was a godsend to you and your family when you were in need. Ill bet she enjoyed having you there to brighten her days and to provide some human companionship as well.