You can use the lids in other ways...for example, with a foodsaver as those don't create a seal. I save my old lids for purposes like this so they don't go to waste after 1 use.

they do create a seal with a foodsaver. that's the point of using one. but it's not a hot seal, so no melting or further deforming is usually involved. used lids work well with a foodsaver.

We were doing some canning and have some extra lids in the hot water can the be used since they were not put on any jars next time we are canning

They are okay to use next time if they were just in the hot water.

<We were doing some canning and have some extra lids in the hot water can the be used since they were not put on any jars next time we are canning>

Exact same question was just posted and answered right above your post. :)

Dave

Only time I re-use my lids is when I am canning water. When I am canning something and my canner isn't full I will can a quart of water using my old lids. IF it doesn't seal that's ok it's just water. I ONLY do this in my pressure canner and I have never yet to have one that didn't seal. Still wouldn't use them for my food though. Anyway I have water in case of an emergency now done like this. So that and just saving things in used jar lids is all I do with used lids. I do SAVE my bands and re-use those.

I have re-used canning lids up to 3 times already. My sister asked a experienced canner if she re-used her lids, she said all the time. I've read on line that you need to make sure the metal on the seal isn't bent, and the seal if clear of all old food and sterile. Also my friend is a care taker for an Italian lady who told her, that back in Italy her family always re-used lids.

mrodela - Consider the sources of your information vs. the scientific research on the issue. It is your choice but it is an unnecessary risk, strongly advised against and always has been.

Dave

Up to now I haven't reused the lids but after reading some of the dialog here I am about to change my process and reuse them if they look OK to me. Yesterday I bought 3 new boxes of canning jars that had jars, lids and bands. Most, if not all, of the lids were tight on the jar (but not as tight when actually canning) and they had jar top impressions in the rubber seal.

If Ball is tightening the lids to the jars when they sell them I assume they know what stresses the rubber will tolerate, and reform to jar again when being used. In effect one could say Ball is "using" the lids for the first time, and certainly expects us to reuse them again and again.

Steve

Companies producing the lids have a vested interest in convincing us that reusing the lids is not safe. Canning is a two-step process. The lid must seal to keep undesirables from entering the jar, and the recommended pressure/cook time must be adhered to to kill the undesirables that are already in the jar. If the lid doesn't seal then the food goes bad. It looks bad, it smells bad and it tastes bad. So don't eat it! The real danger comes from improper processing so that toxins survive and as far as I can see, that has nothing to do with the lid. I reuse my lids every year.

<If the lid doesn't seal then the food goes bad. It looks bad, it smells bad and it tastes bad. >

Not accurate. Many bacteria and fungi produce no visual, smell or taste side effects. You cannot see, smell, or taste botulisim toxins.

Dave

They have a vested interested in you not dying, so you live to buy more lids to use next time.

Dave, if the lid doesn't seal correctly, you will know it. The lid will pop off easily, and not only will the bacteria and fungi that produce no signs proliferate, but those that DO will proliferate and they will make the food go off in no time. It would be like leaving an open jar on the counter. If it seals properly, then it is the responsibility of the person canning to kill the organisms that are already within the food and that step has nothing to do with the lid. Therefore, the question is, do reused lids seal? If people haven't tried it, then they shouldn't attempt to answer the question.

Actually, from what I have read, some botulism types smell and some don't, there are many. I read the types that aren't killed except at very high heat are the ones that do give off a smell, so that is a comforting level of safety. If anyone has any real science on this, it is really quite fascinating.

Keep in mind also if the food spoils (grows mold/fungi) that this changes the acidity and promotes botulism growth, making water bath canned high acid foods no longer safe from botulism. Not really something to mess around with, potentially spoiled canned foods.

Ok so let's assume that rather than buying a box of new lids for $1.95 or less and ending up with 12 quart jars of sealed and safe canned potatoes (or green beans or whatever) I decide to reuse 12 lids that have been used at least once before.

Now I end up with 9 jars that "appear" to have sealed and 3 jars that didn't. Those 3 jars either have to be reprocessed with 24 hours with new lids, time wasted, and end up yucko mushy product OR they have to go into the fridge and be used up ASAP in some way.

A week later I discover that 1 of the jars I thought has sealed has released since it was only a weak seal to begin with. Since it can't be reprocessed now and I have no way to know how long since it released about all I can do it toss the food. All that time growing them and peeling them and canning them - wasted.

So how much time and energy, not to mention food, have I wasted just to save buying a new box of lids?

More importantly what happens if one of my grandkids who wouldn't know a loose lid if it bit him raids the cabinet? If the contamination is so obvious then why the recent botulism episode when the lady that made the potato salad from home canned potatoes for the church supper not notice it?

I'm all for saving my pennies but I'll only play musical lids with high acid foods where yeast and molds is the only concern. Never with low-acid foods It isn't worth my time and the wasted food much less the risk.

Dave

The woman whose home-canned potatoes caused the botulism outbreak used a water-bath method instead of a pressure canner. Potatoes should ALWAYS be pressure-canned. Secondly, why are you assuming a higher level of failed seals from re-used lids? My success rate is exactly the same. If a jar sealed and then you discovered that it "released", don't eat the contents! I've been canning for years and I've never had that happen, with new or used lids. Let's not scare-monger without the facts. I wouldn't have young children opening the jars. It wouldn't matter if they were new lids or not.

I'm not "assuming" a higher level of fails. USDA lab testing has proven a higher fail rate, in some studies as much as a 20%+ fail rate. They have also proven a direct correlation between fail rate, the length of time of the initial seal, and the length of processing time and processing type of the original seal.

In other words lids used on 90 min processed foods are less likely to seal a second time than foods that were only processed for 20 mins. under pressure. And lids that were sealed for less than 30-60 days are more likely to seal a second time than lids that have held a seal for 6-9 months. Logical. But third and fourth use, based on the results of second use testing, was deemed pointless.

That added to my personal experience in 50 some years of canning is more than enough to convince me. Back in the previous century when we had rubber-based seals was one thing. Today's silicone-based seal are a whole other ball game.

Obviously it is your choice to reuse but advocating it to others should be done with care.

Dave

You'll have to post the link to the studies that analyze the success rate of used lids compared with new.

I would never reuse lids. I keep some used lids in my cupboard to use with jars for storage purposes either in the cupboard or fridge. I spend WAY too much time on my garden and especially preparation on canning day to suffer fails that could have been avoided. More importantly, I share my canning goods with my family and would never want there to be a question on safety. I try to do things by the book, realizing that there may be some risk still. If I've really warped a lid getting it off, it goes in the garbage. Otherwise, the others go in a bag of "used" lids. I guess in case of the apocalypse, LOL.

You'll have to post the link to the studies that analyze the success rate of used lids compared with new.

"I have to..."? No. They are readily available to anyone interested in learning in the USDA publications on the topic. If you aren't interested in changing that's fine. It's your choice. But the standards of practice is to NOT reuse the lids and that standard is well supported by research.

Dave

This is an old thread, but I'll comment any way. I understand that lids are cheap, but, I am frugal. I have taken lids and put them upside down (seal up) in the oven for a very few minutes at about 300 degrees. This melts the seal enough to flatten it out and eliminate the old canning ring indentation. Good as new. I also believe the canning companies have a vested interest in selling lids. Once you have the jars it is the only thing they can sell you. I have also reused rubber rings on flip top jars many, many times. There isn't much difference, except for the thickness.

Thanks so much for the tip, trabold49.

I'm going to start canning soon. I am frugal and careful with money but I would never take a chance on wasting food and possibly killing myself and re use a lid to save a few cents.

People will do what they feel comfortable doing. I don't reuse lids, re: previous post above. It's what they feel is an acceptable risk. I give a lot of my canned goods to my kids (Annie's salsa!). Even using the most strict guidelines and proper practices, there is always a small risk. I would never give food to my children/grandchildren knowing I had not done everything as safely as I could possibly do. I'm sure I've done things unknowingly that were not right, meaning I misinterpreted directions or some such. I ask a lot of questions here for that reason, I absolutely trust the advice of several posters about safety. I'm frugal as well. I usually buy 1 or 2 packs of lids when I go grocery shopping throughout the year so I have a stash during canning season. Lori

I enjoy canning now as a hobby in my elder age! I will always use new seals just for my own self assurance that any gift of a canned good to a friend or grandchild will be safe and GREAT TASTING. Keep on canning and pass your knowledge off to your children & grands! They deserve to know how to survive when the shtf! Plus, home canned foods are pure organic healthy without chemicals I cannot pronounce or spell. Lol...my canned food taste 100% better than store bought! IMO, pls dont reuse seal lids for pressure canning...

I'm not into much canning but do mingle with our Amish population that can everything from vegetables, fruit and chicken. Have never seen them use a pressure or any other method than hot bath. They reuse lids and I've never read of a single botulism case in their newspapers or ours. Our town did have a case years ago where store purchased olives caused the death of a couple people after a party. I spoke to the host of the party who stated the only people that ate the olives and died had no alcohol that evening. That was not documented in the paper

Have they also pointed out to you the hours of BWB processing they do on a food rather than the 30-90 min of pressure canning and then the extensive cooking done AFTER the jars are opened to destroy any toxins in the food?

Dave

this is a old thread, but here I go. I never thought to investigate the use of reusing the lids. I just started canning last year so I saved all that stayed at my house as I grew up seeing that people always saved them. I canned my first large batch last weekend and it occured to me all of the sudden to check into the reusing of lids. So, obviously I made a HUGE mistake, but I do know which lids are from last year and I just checked and they are all still sealed tight. I will use those first, and will watch them good until they are gone. What is the best visual indicator for me to use in case I need to gift some of these to get them used faster? (I sure don't want to make somebody really sick) I canned apple butter and apple sauce. Is it too late to repross ALL of them??? What would y'all do? Thanks in advance!

General recommendation is to 1) not gift them as too many things can go wrong, and 2) mark the jars and keep a close eye on them using them ASAP. The best indicator is to store them without the bands on as usual and when ready to use the jar listen for a clear pop when the seal is lift with the opener. If in doubt, throw it out.

Since they are apple products, assuming you used an approved recipe, then they are acidic naturally and the biggest threat is molds and fungus growth. Signs of either - toss it.

Dave

If the lid comes off easily or if the bubble is up it didn't seal so you can check easily enough before gifting them. I don't do anything different with used lids. Sealed is sealed, used lid or new. If it sealed and you processed it correctly, it's safe. The ones who are harmed by our reusing lids are the companies making them.

Thanks! I know which ones are old and which are new. Actually, the "new" lids this year are different and there is not a definite indention on the top like the "old" ones from last year. I am not liking that very much either. I don't know if I used an approved recipe or not. This batch is just plain honey crisp apples broken down and I added nothing to the apple butter at all, and just a very minimal amount of water to the applesauce. I can not believe I am in this boat! :(

I also won't gift them unless you want me to send some to you Dave! :)

I've asked you for links to studies before Dave and you were unable or unwilling to produce them. I do not believe there are any such studies. I reuse lids all the time and THEY DO NOT FAIL. They work every bit as good as the new ones.

And I have pointed out before that the studies are readily available to you via both the Publications link on the NCHFP website and the USDA.gov Food Safety/research link. Even a simply Google search pulls up many of them. Not to mention that this topic has been debated and discussed here numerous times with all sorts of links included in those previous discussions.

When one is not interested in changing their position to begin with and unwilling to do their own research then it is a waste of my time doing all the work for them.

Per the NCHFP/USDA FAQs:

Lids should not be used a second time since the sealing compound becomes indented by the first use, preventing another airtight seal.

We each make our own choices depending on the level of risk we can tolerate. But to encourage others to adopt our personal risk choices is irresponsible.

Dave

Ms. Morris, if you use Google and incorporate ~ site:.gov ~ in your search you will find places that say do not buy more flats than you will use each season. One site, Colorado. if I recall, say toss 'unused' flats if more than five years old. Nowhere that I have found does it say it is alright to reuse flats.

[I will now excuse myself to run off and Google ~ site:.edu ~]

Mississippi says 'Do not reuse...''

Missouri says: "You will need to use new lids (flats) each time."

Georgia says : "...requiring only new lids each time."

Wisconsin says: "They should not be reused."

I'm seeing a pattern.

Sigh. I have yet to see a link or a site (and I have looked after Dave posted before that there were studies) that posts a study that shows a higher fail rate on reused lids. I'm seeing a pattern too - not one of the sites you listed says WHY we shouldn't reuse the lids. I'm guessing they're guessing the seal rate won't be as good as new. In my experience, the seal rate is good. I'm really tired of arguing with people who have absolutely no experience reusing lids. I'm done here.

"I'm really tired of arguing with people who have absolutely no experience reusing lids."

That's not a valid assumption. I come from a multi-generational canning family and have been canning for over 60 years as has my wife. Decades ago lids were not readily available to those of us living in rural environments - miles and miles to the nearest store with limited supplies seasonally and no online ordering - so reusing lids was a fairly common practice simply out of necessity. The increased seal failure rate was a given back then. We were taught to expect it by the previous generations and so we expected and planned for it accordingly. As a result many jars of home canned goods were fed to the chickens and cattle.

And we aren't arguing. You aren't going to change anyone's mind here and clearly aren't interested in changing yours. That's your choice.

Modern day lids have very different sealing compounds now and much less of it. For that reason alone seal failures are more common now than even 10 years ago - especially with wide-mouth lids. As they are processed the sealing compounds heat and somewhat liquify to reform as they cool. So distortions in the compound, air pockets, bubbles and lid distortions from previous use, trapped food particles, and molds are far more common now that they used to be even if they can't be seen with the naked eye. And the silicone can't be heated effectively back into shape like the rubber used to be. So even if an initial seal develops it is often not as strong or as long lasting.

Bottom line - the current guidelines from all reputable canning sources say do not reuse lids and that is for safety reasons not for corporate profit reasons as you claimed. Abiding by those guidelines or choosing to ignore them is always your choice.

Dave

Like Dave, I come from a Multi-generational canning family, all of us farmers, so we have always canned hundreds of jars yearly. I've been canning since I was 7, so that's 55 years. Since I used to own a bar and grille, I've also taken all the food safety classes so know about food poisoning, and I've taken the canning classes offered by the extension service, so I'm aware of the possible risks. Any risks I take are calculated ones, after being presented with all the available information, including actual studies and not based only on anecdotal experiences.

Grandma used to reuse lids, but lids were different, the sealing compound was thicker (as were the jars themselves). Some of our old jars still had the rubber gasket type seals, which were also reused. As the years went on, Grandma stopped reusing "flats" because she got too many seal failures. She also used to use paraffin to seal jelly, but switched to lids because she got too many failures. Sometimes the flats get bent when removing them from the sealed jars, so those are not reusable anyway.

I do reuse lids, but not for canning. Quarts of yogurt in the dehydrator? Those get used flats. Dried leeks in the pantry? Used flats. Cold brewed coffee in the fridge for iced coffee? Definitely used flats.

Here a dozen lids cost about $2.39 a dozen. I'm not going to risk losing my hard earned product, along with all the gardening time and sweat equity I put into the produce, since I grow nearly everything I can. I'm also not going to risk someone's health because I want to save 20 cents, especially since my grandkids and my elderly mother eat my canned items.

I can get more than one use out of those flats without ever putting them back into the canner, but last year's canning tally was over 700 jars and I'd never use that many. Would I? Well, actually, the grandkids love to paint them and turn them into craft projects, doing everything from gluing popsicle sticks to the back and using Sharpies to make seed/planting markers for the herb garden to magnets, Christmas ornaments, so many things that I almost can't keep them supplied, so they aren't completely wasted.

Bottom line is that it's your choice. Everyone gets to decide the level of risk they are comfortable with. If you want to reuse lids, go ahead. I prefer not to take that risk.

Annie

I wonder if this is not a situation where 'if you feel a need to ask, don't do it'?

Piece of mind is more important than few pennies.

In an apocalypse I would reuse them otherwise its not worth it. When Ball started its idea of putting the lids and bands on new jars which is a very bad idea IMO as it gave the impression the careless treatment of lids is OK for canning. So one year I did reuse the lids and came up with a 10% failure rate for long term storage.

The main reason for canning is knowing what you are eating and greatly reducing food waste. Given the labor involved in the entire process of gardening and canning any failure for a very small cost is not worth it.

I have a jar that I bought at the store that had another product in it I would like to reuse the jar and reuse the lid that came on it as any of has anyone ever tried to reuse the same lid the pop top on a jar that they bought from the store with product in it already?

No, I don't believe that lid will seal a second time reliably. You can buy lids to fit various jars at places like Fillmore Container but if it's an odd size, you won't even find a replacement lid there.

They are meant to seal that single time and then be discarded. If it's a very unusual or pretty jar, you could always use it for things like refrigerated pickles or small batch homemade jam, as that could be refrigerated and the seal wouldn't matter. Otherwise I wouldn't risk spoiling my food or making someone sick by reusing a jar that was not even meant to be used for home canning.

Annie

Some foods from the store come with one-piece lids in a mason size and thread shape. For example, coconut oil and some kinds of spaghetti sauce.

I can with those lids, and I use them multiple times. They have much thicker seal than the flat lids sold for canning. Thicker even than the one-piece lids that used to be sold for canning back in the 80s. I wouldn't use them for low acid pressure canned stuff, of course.

I don't think I've ever reused a flat lid, but I would consider it if I just needed one or two more lids for a low acid product like applesauce. I would pick through all my old lids and choose the ones with the best looking seals, the shallowest grooves from old canning.

I posted a question here a while back, about some new jars with lids that had been stored on a warm porch where they sealed and unsealed themselves many times. When I pried the lids off, they had visible grooves. But I was advised to go ahead and simmer them and use them, and I didn't have any trouble with them. Again, high acid, BWB only.

Edit: I mean, the one piece Lids from the 80s were marketed as reusable. Up to four times, if I remember correctly.

Here we are in a pandemic. Lids are impossible to find. So I appreciate the knowledge through the years on this post!

Curious as to how opinions change for today’s lack of lids....

I use my used seals that are not damaged for freezing only. Not going to risk re-using them for canning. Even though there is a big shortage of seals this year that just means more frozen veggies and fruits

Zero lids available for months now. 5 failures on 7 quarts of pressure canned chili with brand new lids yesterday. I am reusing lids without blemishes on the sealant and inner lining. I am only reusing them on high acid foods. Jam, jelly, pickles, etc. I am not using lids from pressure canning for water bath. The higher temperature, and the greater stresses don't seem like a good gamble. The freezers are full. My only choice left, is some old bail type jars with a box of new gaskets sitting here. This is the first time I have been tempted to try them. This day came much quicker than I thought it would!

I purchased enough to get me through canning season and a few extra back in the beginning of March, before things started shutting down. I remember back in the mid 70s when there was a shortage due to a lack of materials for manufacture and swore to never be caught short.

When I wanted to order a package of hard to find seeds and found that the seed companies were all on back order, I knew what would come next. I promptly ordered all the lids I needed and stocked up. Hopefully things will be better next year!

Annie