gardengal48: ok, that is very helpful. Thank you. :-) nwnatural: given the feedback here, and our assessment of the situation, that is the direction we are going. karinl: I am glad to hear that it didnt come off as whining, which was not my intention. I greatly respect the skills and abilities of the people here who work with gardens and landscaping. It is just a bit overwhelming to the rest of us mortals. In terms of the ground cover, this was suggested to us by a friend who is a true gardener, and we have incorporated various types of thyme, teucrium, cerastium, etc. into our design. The problem is that this site was full of weeds when we cleared it to build the house and we need to control that without the use of chemicals if we can avoid it. Based on how the ground cover does, we may be able to slowly incorporate it in other areas, thereby achieving eco-enlightenment. :-) I have included photos below: gweirdo: it is somewhat difficult to answer your question, since we didnt do the landscape design. I can say that our intention was to use drought-tolerant plants that grow well in this area to create an ambiance that defined a place of sanctuary for us. Since a Mediterranean landscape evoked that feeling for us, we began to use that term, perhaps inappropriately. We also wanted to contribute to the land by replacing all the scruffy weeds with plants that would help support the local wildlife (the birds and the bees, not the adolescents in Mini-Coopers). The difficulty is to being able to communicate the experience we want from our garden using the limited lexicon that we have. It is like trying to tell someone from another planet what milk tastes like. We know exactly what we are talking about (fortunately) but no one else does. This probably means we were raised by wolves. To see the details of our design, please go here: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/design/msg0623022121666.html inkognito: I believe I have read enough of your posts to both respect your knowledge and appreciate your writing style. I also believe that you do not mind a bit of verbal jousting, which I am happy to provide. No offense was taken. :-) I will talk to our landscaper about the suggestions you mentioned thank you. We were also concerned about the clean up on gravel, so you are spot on there. springvillegardens: your herb garden is beautiful and the view of the hills is amazing. You have obviously put a great deal of work and love into your creation. Thank you so much for sharing this. frankie_in_zone_7: your vote has been noted and recorded for posterity. I hadnt thought about the linear feet of raking on the paths. Hmmm.... perhaps I need to take up Zen Buddhism. When you say decomposed compacted material, do you mean decomposed gravel and would that be with landscape cloth underneath or not? Thanks.

Hi Melissa, Most of my roses are Old Garden Tea or Noisette roses, but every now and then I get a craving for the scent of a damask rose and head to the H.P. section of a catalog. In our area of Oakland, California, the conditions are the worst for the spread of 1. powdery mildew, all through spring and much of Autumn. 2. followed by blackspot which doesn't show up until early summer when temperatures rise. Then we have 3-4 months of drought and unless foliage is watered, foliage disease isn't much of a problem until the rains begin in Autumn, and p.m. and blackspot return. The native soil is heavy clay. Of all the H.p.'s I've planted in my own no-spray and public rose gardens these were the healthiest, by far. Top 5 H.P.s for disease resistance where I live: 1. Baronne Prevost' Extraordinarily fragrant, too. 2. Mrs.John Laing'. a pretty plant, but has bare ankles which I surrounded with heritage geraniums from the 1800's and earlier. 3. Comtesse de Chabrillant' a real sweetie, bears darling smallish rounded pink roses, on a pretty plant, whicj is spreading and leafy. Very disease resistant where I live. 4. Grandmothers' Hat' grown self standing which makes it re-bloom more often, and as a climber. also benefits from under plantings to hide bare lower canes. 5. 'Mme. Boll' the most upright of these, which is not my favorite growth habit. I also grow 'Frau Karl Druski' because I love white roses, and she is one of the whitest rose I have ever seen, I also like her scent, light but clean and fresh smelling. Foliage is clean until it rains or I get careless and sprinkle her foliage during the few weeks it gets hot enough here for rust to show up. I came across a 'Grandmothers Hat' that was thriving in an abandoned garden where it hadn't been watered by anyone for ten years or more. As I mentioned we get reliable summer drought for months on end. It was growing in deep shade which is probably why it survived the long droughts, and I was delighted to see pink roses near the top of an evergreen tree!!! An H.P. that can survive drought and bloom despite being surrounded by evergreen foliage, 'Grandmothers Hat' would be my top choice if I had your conditions. Luxrosa P.S. These failed and were removed: 'Gruss an Teplitz' from powdery mildew. 'Monsieur Boncenne' rusted to death.

Hi You can achieve some of the Mediterranean look with clay pots, the herbs that I usually grow have different needs and they grow at different times. Rosemary can be planted in the ground somewhere in the background because it tends to get big, mine is planted in a slope where there is space. I have all year round in clay pots oregano and mints. In a small bed I have at different seasons parsley, basil, cilantro, thyme, sage, French Tarragon does not do well for me but the Mexican does which I really don't care for. In spring sometimes I plant lavender and it lasts till the heat comes. You have to consider that we also have to deal with the humidity here in summer. Perfect weather for Mediterranean climate is more California where I know someone have the business of lavender growing and he happens to be a native Floridian. This picture is from last April, rosemary is on the other side of the fence. At the right in clay pots because they take over are mints and oreganos. On one of the beds I have lavender and some chard, the other bed has basil, thyme, parsley, cilantro and sage. Silvia

Thank you. A few things to note. A med climate is not a single climate but a whole class of climates mainly defined by long dryish hottish Summers and coolish wetish Winters with short but distinct seasons in between. Yes, anything below the Alps line can be classed as Med climate and indeed while traveling by road in a North to South direction one can immediately feel the difference when crossing these horizontal mountain ranges (feels homey to me..) but that's about all one can say about med climates. Lots of important things like average yearly rainfall, summer rainfall, existance of frost and freezing minimum temps as well as average max temps can vary greatly depending mainly on latitude, altitude and distance from the sea. The sea itself plays a big role differentiating true Med from med like climates since the Med Sea is very different than the Oceans. Quite a few of the mostly well known roses presented are once bloomers, a thing that should be noted by people in Cal, in my opinion. It has been my experience, supported by others also, that neither 'Laxa' used as understock in the UK, nor other vars of R. canina used in northern Europe are unsuitable for the med climate. Others, such as the ones mentioned, may be more suitable but they are not much used anymore even by Med growers due to commercial and other considerations. That guy near Barcelona who was mentioned in the speech must either have been doing something very wrong or it has been the roses themselves rather than the understocks which have been unsuitable for his climate (Austins anyone?).